Crazy price for Student Rail tickets

SeanW

I was going around Europe last year, and took one way rail tickets.

Munich-Berlin E114 standard class, reciept says 89 I must of got a E25 add-on somewhere. Train was a siemens ICE, those things are feckin' rolling palaces.
Berlin-Amsterdam E84 on Sunday. That was really cheap.

The cost of a one way journey on Irish Rail on a weekend? Staggering by comparison, I once paid E26 to travel in one direction from Connolly to Edgeworthstown on a train that was slow, crappy, bouncy and broke down all over the place. I don't think IE tickets are always value for money at all.

johnnyc

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

enterprise

johnnyc wrote:

I would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

Care to take a look across the pond?

Keep it public, better value for money in the long run.

cal29

johnnyc wrote:

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

well the train systems that are being praised here are all publicly owned unionised and very heavily subsidised

not alot of praise for the system you would favour which is in operation in the UK

MarkoP11

johnnyc wrote:

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

And the last time we had an all out strike anyone ? Its been a long time

The UK has gone badly wrong, following study by a chap called Roger Ford a respected rail industry journalist he was able to prove that the price of everything had increased by a general factor of 3 in real terms since privatisation, its now refered to as the Ford factor and appears in offical government papers its that crazy. The fact every single little contracting element had to make its margin sucked money out of the system

We could do a lot better here and piece by piece things are improving, passenger numbers are climbing rapidly only 20 years ago it was 12 million pa now its over 36 million, 3 fold increase isn't bad going, intercity numbers have doubled. By end 2008 the oldest coach in the fleet will be the original DART units thats damn good going from a state where half the fleet today is over 30 years old

Prices are still fairly reasonable and held understrict control, sure you could fly but that will cost you more after you pay taxes not to mention paying to get a bus/taxi to the airport. Don't see the airlines giving student discounts do you ?

johnnyc

MarkoP11 wrote:

And the last time we had an all out strike anyone ? Its been a long time

The UK has gone badly wrong, following study by a chap called Roger Ford a respected rail industry journalist he was able to prove that the price of everything had increased by a general factor of 3 in real terms since privatisation, its now refered to as the Ford factor and appears in offical government papers its that crazy. The fact every single little contracting element had to make its margin sucked money out of the system

We could do a lot better here and piece by piece things are improving, passenger numbers are climbing rapidly only 20 years ago it was 12 million pa now its over 36 million, 3 fold increase isn't bad going, intercity numbers have doubled. By end 2008 the oldest coach in the fleet will be the original DART units thats damn good going from a state where half the fleet today is over 30 years old

Prices are still fairly reasonable and held understrict control, sure you could fly but that will cost you more after you pay taxes not to mention paying to get a bus/taxi to the airport. Don't see the airlines giving student discounts do you ?

i agree with the point about the uk service but that was due to the goverment giving control of the rail way lines to a company called rail track. the trade unions used the u2 concert to threaten strike. i remember 2 summer back a rogue element in irish rail shut services from train stations such as cork,kerry,westport and galway i cannot remember the fecker who caused it. A company could make a right killing on the rail ways if they operated a ryanair kind of model: u book u ticket over the internet. one way stops from cork to dublin. two ticket inspectors in the 2 rail way stations.

I recon u should look at the rail carriages outside dublin you might get a surprise! i hate when u pay for a ticket and your standing all the way from dublin to mallow

shltter

johnnyc wrote:

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

If anything the Unions in CIE prevent many more industrial disputes than they cause
the fact is that the main unions have a Philosophical desire to maintain the group in public ownership and to protect the Group alot of workers would argue to the detriment of the workers they represent. that has been one of the main reasons for the breakaway groups in the different companies

In the UK when BR was split up the number of industrial disputes rose the Unions no longer had any loyalty to the company the way they have to publicly owned companies

With franchising the chances are that they will only be with the company for 5 to 7 years then someone else will win the franchise and they will be working for a completely different company

murphaph

johnnyc wrote:

...i hate when u pay for a ticket and your standing all the way from dublin to mallow

History from next year. Once the new coaches arrive in and are all in service on the hourly Dublin-Cork route you will be able to reserve seats. You can't (in standard class) at the moment because not all the trainsets are identical in their seating layout and if one breaks down then their would be chaos when the replacement set has different seat numbering.

MarkoP11

johnnyc wrote:

I recon u should look at the rail carriages outside dublin you might get a surprise! i hate when u pay for a ticket and your standing all the way from dublin to mallow

I've travelled on every single coach type in the fleet some are much better than others but in general the seats are comfortable and the seats line up with the window, given there has never been a formal mid life refurbishment they are holding up well age doesn't reveal the worst automatically the 1970's kit is in shocking state not the 1960's kit

By 2008 the oldest coach in service anywhere will date from March 1983 (DART unit 01), the oldest intercity stock will be 1984-1989 and the oldest commuter railcar will be 1994, the vast bulk of stock will be post 2000

I'm sick of the clapped out fleet too but that has no effect overcrowding on the service, the very reason the old coaches are still in use is since demand has grown to such a point they could not be withdrawn as planned, the oldest batch from 1963 where mean't to go in 1997, the network is a victim of its own success.

Thats siad if you are standing it clearly shows there is no shortage of people who want to use the service, imagine the numbers when they take delievery of nearly 200 new coaches over the next 3 years and the yield management ticketing system is allowed to roll permanently, the test worked very well

Calina

kermit_ie wrote:

I beg to differ. I travelled first class in a TGV from Paris to Marseille, and it cost me 60 euro, which is 2 euro less than the price of a train to Cork, where you are not guaranteed a seat, and the TGV is waaaaaaaaay more comfortable!

Is that not a one way fare? Certainly on off peak days you might manage a 50E return but the standard fare from Paris to Vannes one way is 62.50E. I know because I am having almighty trouble trying to book one on the web at the moment.

Irish Rail have many, many problems, but relatively speaking, their fares are not chief amongst them.

Calina

johnnyc wrote:

i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

Privatisation is not a cure all for anything and everything. The point is - whether you want to admit it or not - the rail system in this country has until relatively recently been suffering from massive under investment.

It doesn't matter who owns a service - if they do not invest it - be they state or be they private enterprise - it will suffer.

Experience in Germany will tell you that when the system was privatised - I don't know if this is still the case, but ten years ago when I was living there, the train system had at least been part-privatised following merger with the DR, the much vaunted German punctuality went out the window as employee numbers were hatchetted.

I'm also queasy about the idea of competing companies on the rails. The network is not so big here and several companies using the rails would put a very big onus on some kind of rail traffic control. Realistically, a rail company can be a monopoly, can be in state ownership and can be at the behest of strong unions, and can, like the SNCF, be very efficient.

Thomond Pk

With a population of less than 5.5m on an all-Island basis fares would need to rise dramatically to attract additional entrants on all but a few very short stretches of the network which would probably cause more expense for the longer distance operator than they would save in total. Sometimes a monopoly exists due to a lack of market scale more than anything else.

John R

Rail "competition" does not work in any form. A rail network is too interdependent for it. All parts need to be operated together to make the whole system work smoothly.

The UK shambles is the perfect example of why it is unworkable. Every single aspect of rail operation increased in cost while in many cases productivity and quality nosedived. Far more public money is necessary to keep services running then was ever needed under British Rail.

johnnyc

MarkoP11 wrote:

Thats siad if you are standing it clearly shows there is no shortage of people who want to use the service, imagine the numbers when they take delievery of nearly 200 new coaches over the next 3 years and the yield management ticketing system is allowed to roll permanently, the test worked very well

thats not the point you are paying for a seat for the train journey if they cannot find a seat you should get a massive discount?

shltter

Michael Collins wrote:

I wish I hadn't mentioned anything about the student ticket as some people are latching onto it and avoiding the issue. Cremo is correct, I think that the normal priced ticket is absolute madness, €62 - sure I could rent a car for 2 days for that. I remember using the Italian transport system for longer intercity journeys and never having to pay that much. The trains were brilliant as well, much more frequent and much more confortable....

I latched onto it because that is what you named the trade and it was the only fare you quoted in your original post

you completely ignored the fact that it was a 40% discount on the full price

if you had started a thread about what you considered the high cost of rail travel in general then we could have discussed that but you didn't you only complained about the Student fare

Now that the Student Fare arguement has been demolished you wish you had not mentioned it understandable but dont blame anyone else for your predicament.

As usual students think the world revolves around them and you didn't give a second tought to the people who don't benefit from student discounts and have to pay the full fare.

enterprise

johnnyc wrote:

thats not the point you are paying for a seat for the train journey if they cannot find a seat you should get a massive discount?

You not paying for a seat, you are paying for the right to travel on the companies trains. A ticket does not guarantee a seat!

shltter

jank wrote:

I always thought IE were too expensive even for students. But as I metioned above they have a monopoly and can charge what they want.

they have a monopoly on rail travel however they cannnot charge what they like all fares require ministerial approval

jank wrote:

You have to consider too that if you want to fly it will cost you 80 return! and that will take you in the region of 30 - 40 minutes!

fly then if you can get a return for that money when you want it

jank wrote:

So value for money is something you dont get from IE

Don't use the train then

jank wrote:

oh shltter STFU!

How grown up of you. If you can't win an arguement you can just tell the other person to STFU

jank

shltter do you actually have a point other then trolling?

johnnyc

enterprise wrote:

You not paying for a seat, you are paying for the right to travel on the companies trains. A ticket does not guarantee a seat!

wtf you are paying for the seat enterprise this aint india when you buy a ticket on irish rail you are paying for a seat (exception the dart & luas).

MarkoP11

johnnyc wrote:

wtf you are paying for the seat enterprise this aint india when you buy a ticket on irish rail you are paying for a seat (exception the dart & luas).

It has always been clear that a ticket is permission to travel, where do you draw the line, Dart Luas fine, Drogheda, Dundalk, Maynooth, Kildare are all standing room only too

The system is a victim of its own success, despite people saying the system is rubbish there is no shortage of people willing to use it since it is faster than most other options, even a certain economist who has a major dislike of IE still gets the train

dowlingm

Bit of calm everybody. The fact is that IE are not a service run for profit and are already subsidised to a large extent (although they do run a "surplus" most years :rolleyes: ). That subsidy among other things keeps student prices down as far as it is.

Trains, unlike aircraft, rarely run non-stop so unless you are going from terminus to terminus air travel is unlikely to be directly comparable. Furthermore, stuff in Italy used to cost less because (a) they are part of a European network (b) they had a rubbish currency so most things were cheap and (c) they are a large country which tends to support rail better in general. I have travelled by train from Venice to Trieste and don't remember it being much better or worse than IE.

The really stupid anomalies in the system are things like the price of single tickets, that the Sligo line is about 25% cheaper per mile than other parts of the network, and the need for all Dublin suburban services to be separately managed and marketed from the rest of IE as a precursor to the electrification of the Kildare and Maynooth lines and regulated by a Dublin Transit Authority to ensure connections with LUAS and urban buses.

Michael Collins - you resent that you can't have the comfort of the train at the speed of the plane for the price of the bus. Welcome to the world of the rest of us, students or no.

enterprise

johnnyc wrote:

wtf you are paying for the seat enterprise this aint india when you buy a ticket on irish rail you are paying for a seat (exception the dart & luas).

Im telling you like it is! If you care to take a look at the conditions of travel im sure I could point you in the right direction.

KC61

Unfortunately Johnnyc, Enterprise is correct.

Possession of a valid ticket (without a seat reservation) does not automatically entitle you to a seat - it is merely the right to travel on the train. This is the case for all IE services.

shltter

jank wrote:

shltter do you actually have a point other then trolling?

What part do you consider a troll

or is that just a term you bandy about to avoid the issue that the OP raised and now says he regrets raising

Victor

jank wrote:

I always thought IE were too expensive even for students.

Or perhaps students should be given grants they can live on or they should use services they can afford.

John R

jank wrote:

shltter do you actually have a point other then trolling?

Here's an idea; how about you stop attacking other posters personally just because they disagree with your point of view.


On some other boards here you would be banned for that, maybe we should have some stricter rules here on that sort of thing?

johnnyc

tains are crap. service is rubbish better off getting a flight or the bus better services and like the irish rail motto irish rail "we will get your there but we dont know when"!.

enterprise

johnnyc wrote:

tains are crap. service is rubbish better off getting a flight or the bus better services and like the irish rail motto irish rail "we will get your there but we dont know when"!.

Tell that to the millions of customers that use Irish Rail each year.

Calina

johnnyc wrote:

tains are crap. service is rubbish better off getting a flight or the bus better services and like the irish rail motto irish rail "we will get your there but we dont know when"!.

Oh really? Well here's the good news. They've improved massively in the past 15 years. You want joy? Try arriving at your destination at 4.30am because of an engine failure outside Kildare. Try arriving in Heuston Stn at 2am.

These things happened me more than once when I used to take the train between Charleville and Dublin up to twice a week. Punctuality has improved massively since then.

Feel free to get the bus yourself, but sufficiently large numbers of people are willing to take their chances with IE. Sure it's taking a while, but really what you have now is no comparison to what regular rail users had to put up with in short living memory.

Metrobest

It's worth noting that students can travel for free in the Netherlands and Belgium on all public transport, so the least IE can do it offer a discount on its outrageous prices to students and regular travellers. As a semi-state monopoly, however, it seems to more concerned with protecting its unionised employees jobsforlife than in delivering an excellent service to the taxpayers who prop it up.

The things you should expect when traveling on trains - punctuality, comfort, value for money, customer service, cleanlinesss; in other words, the basics - are sadly absent from IE's offering. The number of passengers carried by Irish Rail should not be interpreted as an endorsement of this semi-state monopoly. In Ireland rail transport is marginally more attractive than road transport on long-distance journeys, but as the national road network improves and motoways come on stream, cars/buses will become an ever-more attractive option for people traveling down the country, compared to the rail service in its present form.