Crazy price for Student Rail tickets

Michael Collins

I'm planning a trip down to Cork in mid July to partake in some of the Capital of Culture festivities. Since the bus takes 4.5 hours, I thought I'd go for the train route, which will have me down in a more respectible 2.5 hours. I checked on www.irishrail.ie for the prices of a student return to Cork and it's...wait for it...€37!

This is a mad price. The bus only costs €12 return for a student. It's not like the train provides €25 worth of service above and beyond that of the bus. I don't know what kind of students they're targeting. Also, you'd think they would at least make the price more respectable due to the whole Capital of Culture festival going on.

All I can say is: Where's me culture!?

Thomond Pk

Possibly Irish Rail will re-introduce the 10 euro returns they had last year

MarkoP11

Considering its 56.50 for a 5 day return or 62.50 for a monthly return and the student return is a monthly return 37.50 is a very good price, I'd keep stum the regular punters will give out like mad if they knew the level of discount

The 13:00 to Cork on a Saturday has an awful lot of students, the train is more comfortable, quicker and you can get an awful lot done with a table in front of you

Don't forget the bar either

rancheros

i'd say prices are only going to get worse, they just bought a fleet of brand new intercity trains due for service i think in 2007

shltter

Ah the poor students why cant they have everything for nothing??

Its so unfair

Creamy Goodness

shltter wrote:

Ah the poor students why cant they have everything for nothing??

Its so unfair

i think he point is that even with a student discount it is still horendisly expensive.

pickarooney

Ach, you're a student, what have you got to be in a rush for?

shltter

Cremo wrote:

i think he point is that even with a student discount it is still horendisly expensive.

Take the bus then sure it's not like he has to rush back for college

jank

Ah the poor students why cant they have everything for nothing??

STFU ya fool

I got that train for ages, even though its good value in terms of the full whack of 55e its still very expensive

Get the aircoach, it only costs 12 return and takes 4 hours usually and its waaay more comfortable than the train you only save like 1-1.5 hours so are u really in that much of a rush!

I always go with aircoach now anyway. Its a pity that they can offer some competition on the railways too!

shltter

jank wrote:

STU ya fool

I got that train for ages, even though its good value in terms og the full whack of 55e its still very expensive

Get the aircoach, it only costs 12 return and takes 4 hours usually and its waaay more comfortable than the train you only save like 1-1.5 hours so are u really in that much of a rush!

I always go with aircoach now anyway. Its a pity that they can offer some competition on the railways too!

now can we have the english translation of that


BTW what is the student discount on aircoach

Thomond Pk

At 12 euro they hardly need one, 6 euro to the airport if you buy the return is some saving on the 30 euro a taxi would cost and with the satelite tracking system on their site they really should be studied and copied by Bus Eireann the muppets that allow private cars to park in their bus stations and then allow the neighbouring streets to be clogged up with their parked buses.

Irish Rail need to think creatively on increasing the load factor on their off peak services, ryanair at 83% load factor have shown what is the difference between profit and loss.

jank

now can we have the english translation of that

Well i could but my Ann & Barry english isnt up to scratch, now run back to your hole where you came from. Unless you actually contribute something usefull to the thread

shltter

jank wrote:

Well i could but my Ann & Barry english isnt up to scratch, now run back to your hole where you came from. Unless you actually contribute something usefull to the thread

it certainly is not up to scratch I hope you dont need it for college

so what is the student discount from aircoach

jank

shltter wrote:

it certainly is not up to scratch I hope you dont need it for college

so what is the student discount from aircoach

Have you heard of punctuation, since your that fussy and all

There is none as far as i know but at 12e return what do you expect.

shltter

jank wrote:

There is none as far as i know but at 12e return what do you expect.

So you only think students are entitled to a discount if you consider the full price to be expensive.

My honest opinion students are god damn lucky to be getting a discount at all.

Why do students think they are entitled to any discount?

dudara

shltter wrote:

So you only think students are entitled to a discount if you consider the full price to be expensive.

My honest opinion students are god damn lucky to be getting a discount at all.

Why do students think they are entitled to any discount?

That's just a trolling comment.

Aircoach don't offer a student discount.

shltter

dudara wrote:

That's just a trolling comment.

Aircoach don't offer a student discount.

No it is not why do you think you are entitled to a discount from some companies and not from others

someone has already posted the full price and it is 62.50

student price is 37.50 that is a saving of 25 euro

that is a 40% discount how much more of a discount do you expect

if you still think that is too dear then you should take the bus

But my honest opinion you should be glad they even have a student discount.

dudara

It's at the discretion of the companies in question whether they offer a student discount or not. If they do, then great for the students. If not, then that's fine too.

Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann etc, as semi-state bodies, are probably more obliged to offer student discounts than private companies.

These days, I actually prefer to travel to Dublin by aircoach. The buses are spacious, airconditioned, have leather seats, tonnes of footroom, and are more pleasant than a wobbly train full of kids and drunk GAA fans and which ran out of hot water somewhere near Portarlington. If anyone wants to pay E55 for a shoddy service and unguaranteed seat*, then they're more than welcome.

*Though I think that there is now reserved seat booking available on some routes

Stark

Aircoach used to offer students discounts back when it was €30 for a return ticket. But now that tickets are €12, they're as cheap as can be.

Michael Collins

I wish I hadn't mentioned anything about the student ticket as some people are latching onto it and avoiding the issue. Cremo is correct, I think that the normal priced ticket is absolute madness, €62 - sure I could rent a car for 2 days for that. I remember using the Italian transport system for longer intercity journeys and never having to pay that much. The trains were brilliant as well, much more frequent and much more confortable.

Is there any other European country that has similar prices for a similar or even for a better train service?

I don't necessarily think students should get things any cheaper I'm glad for anything we do get and generally businesses offer student prices so they make more money, as they're aware a lot of students don't have that much extra cash. In this case, even after the discount, I'd still consider it way too expensive for what it is.

Aircoach seems like the best option though, leather seats hmmm...

jank

I always thought IE were too expensive even for students. But as I metioned above they have a monopoly and can charge what they want.

You have to consider too that if you want to fly it will cost you 80 return! and that will take you in the region of 30 - 40 minutes!

So value for money is something you dont get from IE

Madness!!

oh shltter STFU!

Stark

Okay a few points. And before I start I do agree that the train is a ripoff.

Michael Collins wrote:

€62 - sure I could rent a car for 2 days for that.

You could get a car for €68 alright, but you'd have to pay for petrol on top of that price (Probably another €60). Of course you could argue that the freedom of the car is worth the price of the petrol. And then there's economies of scale: if you've passengers, they can split the price.

Michael Collins wrote:

Is there any other European country that has similar prices for a similar or even for a better train service?

jank wrote:

I always thought IE were too expensive even for students. But as I metioned above they have a monopoly and can charge what they want.

Actually from what a friend in the UK told me, train prices in England have gone insane since privatization. He says it can cost him £100 return from Leeds to London. I think the price does vary if you book ahead, but it's still pretty expensive.

jank wrote:

You have to consider too that if you want to fly it will cost you 80 return! and that will take you in the region of 30 - 40 minutes!

The train is always €55 regardless of peak/off peak, what day you go, how far in advance you get your ticket. The price of planes can vary hugely and it is very difficult to get a cheap flight. As well as that, the 30-40 minutes is only the time from takeoff to landing. You also have to take into account the time it takes to get to/from the airport, checkin time, boarding time etc.

John R

jank wrote:

I always thought IE were too expensive even for students. But as I metioned above they have a monopoly and can charge what they want.

Plane, Car, Bus Eireann, Aircoach. How many more choices would you like?

jank wrote:

oh shltter STFU!

Excellent arguement, well done you. :rolleyes:

Tar.Aldarion

train ticket costs 34 to dub from here....feckin hell ..that hurts me...boourns to expensiveness!

John R

Michael Collins wrote:

Is there any other European country that has similar prices for a similar or even for a better train service?

Compared with most european rail operators IE are cheaper per mile for the unrestricted travel, turn up and go tickets they offer. They don't offer off peak and pre-booked discounts.

Thomond Pk

jank wrote:

You have to consider too that if you want to fly it will cost you 80 return! and that will take you in the region of 30 - 40 minutes!

That is not quite correct as you have forgotten to mention the taxes and charges, and these fares only apply to a small number of flights with the more desirable flights costing typically 60-80 & tax each way.

Going Out (T Fare)
1 Adult at € 39.99 EUR € 39.99 EUR
Taxes and Fees (details) € 19.99 EUR

Coming Back (T Fare)
1 Adult at € 39.99 EUR € 39.99 EUR
Taxes and Fees (details) € 14.43 EUR

Total Cost of Flight € 114.40 EUR

There is also the issue of getting to and from both airports which takes significantly longer than getting to or from Heuston or Kent. Then there is the issue of check in, security and baggage collection/weight limits.

JohnR,

I totally agree with the point you are making on the issue of all pricing being an on demand structure. Am I missing something or did ryanair and Aircoach never happen it is past time for IE to wake up to the fact that they are probably losing market share or at the very least not increasing it to their potential. I am all in favour of investment in rail but every measure must be taken to ensure that IE do everything in their power to fill seats particularly at off peak times just like Aer Arran do above.

MarkoP11

John R wrote:

Compared with most european rail operators IE are cheaper per mile for the unrestricted travel, turn up and go tickets they offer. They don't offer off peak and pre-booked discounts.

There was a very successful trial online sales promotion selling off peak tickets out of Heuston at considerable discount last Autumn, given there are few off peak services on most intercity routes its limited

When Cork goes hourly next year all the trains will be indentical so full seat booking will be possible unlike the very limited booking now available. There will be excess capacity to sell and they will have a yield management system setup and tested just waiting to go

The punters are willing to pay the current fare levels which are quite reasonable by international standards, the line carries about 4 million a year and thats on a fairly patchy frequency

kermit_ie

MarkoP11 wrote:

The punters are willing to pay the current fare levels which are quite reasonable by international standards, the line carries about 4 million a year and thats on a fairly patchy frequency

I beg to differ. I travelled first class in a TGV from Paris to Marseille, and it cost me 60 euro, which is 2 euro less than the price of a train to Cork, where you are not guaranteed a seat, and the TGV is waaaaaaaaay more comfortable!

MarkoP11

Irish prices are turn up and go and no need to book in advance as is required for TGV services, SNCF have an advanced yield management system so you get some really good value off peak but you can pay through the nose when things are busy. Have a look at London Manchester 180 odd miles trains are packed the fares are obscene

You can't stand on a TGV for a combination of reasons mainly since you have to have a reservation but also high speed trains are weight sensitive so you can't have 20 people standing in a coach they have sensors which shut the train down if it becomes over weight

As other have shown there are plenty cheaper ways to Cork but still the train is jammed and yes booking is available on the bulk of the most busy Friday evening trains

enterprise

If you decide to take the bus from Dublin to Cork your paying for a slower, less comfortable service, journey times from Dublin to Cork by bus is: 4hrs 25mins, Train takes on average 2hrs 45 mins, depending on which service you get. When the hourly timetable is launched I reckon all Dublin - Cork services will take 2hrs 40 mins.

Therefore people are quite happy to fork out the relevant fare as the train can get them to their destination in half the time of the bus.

Try turning up at a UK station to undertake an Intercity journey. Then you see Irish Rail fares are quite competitive compared to many Countries in Europe.

Victor

Tonight

PARIS BERCY
MARSEILLE ST CHARLES
Journey time: 09h22
Not sold on the Internet

Tomorrow

PARIS GARE DE LYON
MARSEILLE ST CHARLES
First Class - Non Smoking
€122.70

PARIS GARE DE LYON
MARSEILLE ST CHARLES
Standard €72-88

SeanW

I was going around Europe last year, and took one way rail tickets.

Munich-Berlin E114 standard class, reciept says 89 I must of got a E25 add-on somewhere. Train was a siemens ICE, those things are feckin' rolling palaces.
Berlin-Amsterdam E84 on Sunday. That was really cheap.

The cost of a one way journey on Irish Rail on a weekend? Staggering by comparison, I once paid E26 to travel in one direction from Connolly to Edgeworthstown on a train that was slow, crappy, bouncy and broke down all over the place. I don't think IE tickets are always value for money at all.

johnnyc

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

enterprise

johnnyc wrote:

I would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

Care to take a look across the pond?

Keep it public, better value for money in the long run.

cal29

johnnyc wrote:

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

well the train systems that are being praised here are all publicly owned unionised and very heavily subsidised

not alot of praise for the system you would favour which is in operation in the UK

MarkoP11

johnnyc wrote:

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

And the last time we had an all out strike anyone ? Its been a long time

The UK has gone badly wrong, following study by a chap called Roger Ford a respected rail industry journalist he was able to prove that the price of everything had increased by a general factor of 3 in real terms since privatisation, its now refered to as the Ford factor and appears in offical government papers its that crazy. The fact every single little contracting element had to make its margin sucked money out of the system

We could do a lot better here and piece by piece things are improving, passenger numbers are climbing rapidly only 20 years ago it was 12 million pa now its over 36 million, 3 fold increase isn't bad going, intercity numbers have doubled. By end 2008 the oldest coach in the fleet will be the original DART units thats damn good going from a state where half the fleet today is over 30 years old

Prices are still fairly reasonable and held understrict control, sure you could fly but that will cost you more after you pay taxes not to mention paying to get a bus/taxi to the airport. Don't see the airlines giving student discounts do you ?

johnnyc

MarkoP11 wrote:

And the last time we had an all out strike anyone ? Its been a long time

The UK has gone badly wrong, following study by a chap called Roger Ford a respected rail industry journalist he was able to prove that the price of everything had increased by a general factor of 3 in real terms since privatisation, its now refered to as the Ford factor and appears in offical government papers its that crazy. The fact every single little contracting element had to make its margin sucked money out of the system

We could do a lot better here and piece by piece things are improving, passenger numbers are climbing rapidly only 20 years ago it was 12 million pa now its over 36 million, 3 fold increase isn't bad going, intercity numbers have doubled. By end 2008 the oldest coach in the fleet will be the original DART units thats damn good going from a state where half the fleet today is over 30 years old

Prices are still fairly reasonable and held understrict control, sure you could fly but that will cost you more after you pay taxes not to mention paying to get a bus/taxi to the airport. Don't see the airlines giving student discounts do you ?

i agree with the point about the uk service but that was due to the goverment giving control of the rail way lines to a company called rail track. the trade unions used the u2 concert to threaten strike. i remember 2 summer back a rogue element in irish rail shut services from train stations such as cork,kerry,westport and galway i cannot remember the fecker who caused it. A company could make a right killing on the rail ways if they operated a ryanair kind of model: u book u ticket over the internet. one way stops from cork to dublin. two ticket inspectors in the 2 rail way stations.

I recon u should look at the rail carriages outside dublin you might get a surprise! i hate when u pay for a ticket and your standing all the way from dublin to mallow

shltter

johnnyc wrote:

i agree with u trains are too expensive people are getting better value for money on flight why can we not have the same for trains. the trade unions are destroying this country. i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

If anything the Unions in CIE prevent many more industrial disputes than they cause
the fact is that the main unions have a Philosophical desire to maintain the group in public ownership and to protect the Group alot of workers would argue to the detriment of the workers they represent. that has been one of the main reasons for the breakaway groups in the different companies

In the UK when BR was split up the number of industrial disputes rose the Unions no longer had any loyalty to the company the way they have to publicly owned companies

With franchising the chances are that they will only be with the company for 5 to 7 years then someone else will win the franchise and they will be working for a completely different company

murphaph

johnnyc wrote:

...i hate when u pay for a ticket and your standing all the way from dublin to mallow

History from next year. Once the new coaches arrive in and are all in service on the hourly Dublin-Cork route you will be able to reserve seats. You can't (in standard class) at the moment because not all the trainsets are identical in their seating layout and if one breaks down then their would be chaos when the replacement set has different seat numbering.

MarkoP11

johnnyc wrote:

I recon u should look at the rail carriages outside dublin you might get a surprise! i hate when u pay for a ticket and your standing all the way from dublin to mallow

I've travelled on every single coach type in the fleet some are much better than others but in general the seats are comfortable and the seats line up with the window, given there has never been a formal mid life refurbishment they are holding up well age doesn't reveal the worst automatically the 1970's kit is in shocking state not the 1960's kit

By 2008 the oldest coach in service anywhere will date from March 1983 (DART unit 01), the oldest intercity stock will be 1984-1989 and the oldest commuter railcar will be 1994, the vast bulk of stock will be post 2000

I'm sick of the clapped out fleet too but that has no effect overcrowding on the service, the very reason the old coaches are still in use is since demand has grown to such a point they could not be withdrawn as planned, the oldest batch from 1963 where mean't to go in 1997, the network is a victim of its own success.

Thats siad if you are standing it clearly shows there is no shortage of people who want to use the service, imagine the numbers when they take delievery of nearly 200 new coaches over the next 3 years and the yield management ticketing system is allowed to roll permanently, the test worked very well

Calina

kermit_ie wrote:

I beg to differ. I travelled first class in a TGV from Paris to Marseille, and it cost me 60 euro, which is 2 euro less than the price of a train to Cork, where you are not guaranteed a seat, and the TGV is waaaaaaaaay more comfortable!

Is that not a one way fare? Certainly on off peak days you might manage a 50E return but the standard fare from Paris to Vannes one way is 62.50E. I know because I am having almighty trouble trying to book one on the web at the moment.

Irish Rail have many, many problems, but relatively speaking, their fares are not chief amongst them.

Calina

johnnyc wrote:

i would privatise the trains let the goverment own the tracks open up the market and we would get better value for our money?

Privatisation is not a cure all for anything and everything. The point is - whether you want to admit it or not - the rail system in this country has until relatively recently been suffering from massive under investment.

It doesn't matter who owns a service - if they do not invest it - be they state or be they private enterprise - it will suffer.

Experience in Germany will tell you that when the system was privatised - I don't know if this is still the case, but ten years ago when I was living there, the train system had at least been part-privatised following merger with the DR, the much vaunted German punctuality went out the window as employee numbers were hatchetted.

I'm also queasy about the idea of competing companies on the rails. The network is not so big here and several companies using the rails would put a very big onus on some kind of rail traffic control. Realistically, a rail company can be a monopoly, can be in state ownership and can be at the behest of strong unions, and can, like the SNCF, be very efficient.

Thomond Pk

With a population of less than 5.5m on an all-Island basis fares would need to rise dramatically to attract additional entrants on all but a few very short stretches of the network which would probably cause more expense for the longer distance operator than they would save in total. Sometimes a monopoly exists due to a lack of market scale more than anything else.

John R

Rail "competition" does not work in any form. A rail network is too interdependent for it. All parts need to be operated together to make the whole system work smoothly.

The UK shambles is the perfect example of why it is unworkable. Every single aspect of rail operation increased in cost while in many cases productivity and quality nosedived. Far more public money is necessary to keep services running then was ever needed under British Rail.

johnnyc

MarkoP11 wrote:

Thats siad if you are standing it clearly shows there is no shortage of people who want to use the service, imagine the numbers when they take delievery of nearly 200 new coaches over the next 3 years and the yield management ticketing system is allowed to roll permanently, the test worked very well

thats not the point you are paying for a seat for the train journey if they cannot find a seat you should get a massive discount?

shltter

Michael Collins wrote:

I wish I hadn't mentioned anything about the student ticket as some people are latching onto it and avoiding the issue. Cremo is correct, I think that the normal priced ticket is absolute madness, €62 - sure I could rent a car for 2 days for that. I remember using the Italian transport system for longer intercity journeys and never having to pay that much. The trains were brilliant as well, much more frequent and much more confortable....

I latched onto it because that is what you named the trade and it was the only fare you quoted in your original post

you completely ignored the fact that it was a 40% discount on the full price

if you had started a thread about what you considered the high cost of rail travel in general then we could have discussed that but you didn't you only complained about the Student fare

Now that the Student Fare arguement has been demolished you wish you had not mentioned it understandable but dont blame anyone else for your predicament.

As usual students think the world revolves around them and you didn't give a second tought to the people who don't benefit from student discounts and have to pay the full fare.

enterprise

johnnyc wrote:

thats not the point you are paying for a seat for the train journey if they cannot find a seat you should get a massive discount?

You not paying for a seat, you are paying for the right to travel on the companies trains. A ticket does not guarantee a seat!

shltter

jank wrote:

I always thought IE were too expensive even for students. But as I metioned above they have a monopoly and can charge what they want.

they have a monopoly on rail travel however they cannnot charge what they like all fares require ministerial approval

jank wrote:

You have to consider too that if you want to fly it will cost you 80 return! and that will take you in the region of 30 - 40 minutes!

fly then if you can get a return for that money when you want it

jank wrote:

So value for money is something you dont get from IE

Don't use the train then

jank wrote:

oh shltter STFU!

How grown up of you. If you can't win an arguement you can just tell the other person to STFU

jank

shltter do you actually have a point other then trolling?

johnnyc

enterprise wrote:

You not paying for a seat, you are paying for the right to travel on the companies trains. A ticket does not guarantee a seat!

wtf you are paying for the seat enterprise this aint india when you buy a ticket on irish rail you are paying for a seat (exception the dart & luas).

MarkoP11

johnnyc wrote:

wtf you are paying for the seat enterprise this aint india when you buy a ticket on irish rail you are paying for a seat (exception the dart & luas).

It has always been clear that a ticket is permission to travel, where do you draw the line, Dart Luas fine, Drogheda, Dundalk, Maynooth, Kildare are all standing room only too

The system is a victim of its own success, despite people saying the system is rubbish there is no shortage of people willing to use it since it is faster than most other options, even a certain economist who has a major dislike of IE still gets the train