What do I know, that RTÉ doesn't?

Ray777

I know it's fashionable (and rather boring) to criticise our national broadcaster, but I can't for the life of me understand why RTÉ have such a horrible habit of making 'improvements' and 'advances' that do nothing, but tarnish the service.

I'll start with the introduction of non Met Éireann 'weather presenters' a few years back. Thankfully, public pressure forced them to make a semi-U-Turn, but what was the motivation behind that stupid idea in the first place? To throw a bunch of DCU graduates, without an ounce of meteorological knowledge in front of a weather map is stupid. Compare the early afternoon weather forecasts with the evening forecast and you'll know what I mean. Met Éireann's staff have provided a great service for years. It wasn't broken, so why did RTÉ feel the need to fix it?

And then of course, the introduction of permanent on-screen logos. Why? The idea that it's all about 'brand recognition' is absolute rubbish. The vast majority of people with anything vaguely resembling a brain know what channel they're watching, without an irritating logo in the corner of the screen. With the introduction of on screen logos, nothing positive has been added to RTÉ's service. Other than make our state broadcaster look like a cheap SKY channel, nothing has been achieved. Again, it wasn't broken...

Back in 2001, RTÉ decided to scrap the most successful programme in their history. Yes, Glenroe had deteriorated in quality, but the RTÉ attitude was 'just ditch it'. The same thing happened to 'Emmerdale Farm' back in the early 90s, but ITV's response was to improve storylines. Couldn't that have also been done with Glenroe? The sheer laziness and lack of imagination shown by RTÉ was staggering.

When Gay Byrne retired as presenter of The Late Late Show back in 1999, RTÉ made the much-maligned decision to replace him with Pat 'The Plank' Kenny. In fairness, due to their lack of nurturing of talent in previous years, Kenny was the only genuine contender for the job. The show would have remained quite good, if they'd kept the original format. Sadly though, the traditional warmth of the Late Late Show was replaced with the coldness and blandness of 'Kenny Live'. The desk, which was a feature of the show for so many years disappeared, leaving Pat Kenny sitting uncomfortably close to his guests. No... Sorry... that should be 'guest'. The familiar, successful and unique phenomenon of keeping all guests present for the duration of the show was turfed out, in favour of the standard, bland 15 minute interview. In short, RTÉ took everything that was good about the Late Late and got rid of it.

During the '80s and early '90s, RTÉ finally managed to get Kids TV just perfect. Zig, Zag, Dustin and Ian Dempsey/Ray D'Arcy were brilliant and indeed far better than anything 'across the pond'. Inevitably though, they became victims of their own success and RTÉ lost Zig and Zag to Channel Four. The Den then slowly began to decline, with the final blow coming when Ray D'Arcy quit to be replaced by Damian McCaul - somebody with a great personality for radio. Then of course, along come the pretty girl presenters, most of whom can hardly even string a sentence together and finally, in a desperate bid to hit rock bottom, RTÉ decided to employ the present presenter of The Den - a complete unknown, who after two years, still seems frightened by the fact that there's a camera in front of him (which means he will probably replace PK on the Late Late eventually). That's it - patronise the kids with childish inane nonsense. Of course, what RTÉ should have done, is search the universities of Ireland for something that might capture the public's imagination in a similar way to Zig and Zag. There's plenty of talent out there, so it's definitely possible. But no... this is RTÉ we're talking about. Imagination? Effort? Nah.

As the title of this thread asks, 'What do I know that RTÉ doesn't?' I've never been trained in the art of television production or any branch of the media, for that matter. I'm just a casual viewer. I refuse to believe that I could possibly be more knowledgable or intelligent than these people, who are being paid large amounts of money to run our national broadcaster. So perhaps I'll rephrase my question... 'What do RTÉ know, that I don't?'

It's not just me though, is it?

Wheels

Ray777 wrote:

I know it's fashionable (and rather boring) to criticise our national broadcaster, but I can't for the life of me understand why RTÉ have such a horrible habit of making 'improvements' and 'advances' that do nothing, but tarnish the service.

It is indeed fashionable, and sometimes it is uncalled but a lot of the time it is justified.

And then of course, the introduction of permanent on-screen logos.

Brand awareness is a stupid excuse alright. If someone has so many channels that they are getting confused as to what they are currently looking at then they are more then likely using cable or satalite that provides EPG's. For those using a basic system, it is not too hard to remember what channel number you placed each channel.

Back in 2001, RTÉ decided to scrap the most successful programme in their history. Yes, Glenroe had deteriorated in quality, but the RTÉ attitude was 'just ditch it'.

This has always been the way though. If its broke, dump it. Glenroe was simply in need of a fresh faces and a new attitude. They got bogged down with that stupid murder storyline and everything became about storylines. The characters no longer appealed to viewers. The same thing is happening EastEnders but they are addressing the issue and trying to turn it around.

In short, RTÉ took everything that was good about the Late Late and got rid of it.

It is no longer the late late show. Nothing about it except the owl at the start, the odd freebie for the audience and the toyshow were retained from the gay byrne format. The panel of guests and the table were a big loss I feel. I think the only reason they are holding the title becuase of its status as the worlds longest running chat show. That title though seems incredibly given their inability to hang onto any show longer then a few years.

As the title of this thread asks, 'What do I know that RTÉ doesn't?' I've never been trained in the art of television production or any branch of the media, for that matter. I'm just a casual viewer. I refuse to believe that I could possibly be more knowledgable or intelligent than these people, who are being paid large amounts of money to run our national broadcaster. So perhaps I'll rephrase my question... 'What do RTÉ know, that I don't?'

I'd like to think they are getting better, and sometimes I'm convinced they are progressing a lot. Their daytime output over the last couple of months has been pretty good with a decent mix of programmes. The problem is they are becoming lazy like much of the broadcasting industry. It's all about reality shows or change your life shows, I'd like to see RTE try some more sitcoms. It's one things they really shy away from. If they fail then they need to look at them and try and figure out why then go back and start again.

Sleepy

Lets face it RTÉ suffer from the same problem most large Irish organisations do these days: they're run by beancounters and incompetents whose daddies' friends were in high places. Our culture doesn't promote talented people, promoting those with a flair for office politics beyond the sometimes rougher around the edges but infinitely more talented people.

Given the "golden circle" mentality in place in Ireland, I don't expect to see RTÉ improve any time soon. Your question about the weather presenters and pretty (vacant) 'personalities' being used on RTÉ is easily answered: their daddies are rich and have friends in the right places to land young Rossanna her job

limerick_man

Deffinatly some home grow Sitcoms would be great for RTE... american style based in Ireland!

I do agree with RTE on the brand recognition though changing everything to RTE 2fm etc., it really showed what they do around the country! Its not as though the logo gets in the way and as long as they take it off for ad breaks it doesnt damage the screen!

RTE have turned daytime TV backwards... last year they decided to go for the teen market who were off for the summer with american sitcoms during the day... the first time i actually had a sedcualed TV timetable that involved RTÉ! Now they've changed that though!

RTE even took ryan tuburty and made a boring show! HOW! I expected something along the lines of Graham Nortan or at least Turbuty's radio show... but its like another Late Late show!

RTÉ need someone like the guy who came in and did TV3 to just redo RTE! But what RTE really need to do is take chances!

Wheels

Sleepy wrote:

Lets face it RTÉ suffer from the same problem most large Irish organisations do these days: they're run by beancounters and incompetents whose daddies' friends were in high places. Our culture doesn't promote talented people, promoting those with a flair for office politics beyond the sometimes rougher around the edges but infinitely more talented people.

RTE seem to lack any sort of schemes to get new talent, or to find new creative forces. It's alright to do a reality show about finding the next big eurovision flop, but perhaps they need to find new internal talent.

A friend of mine last year who was a second year media student in a PLC course was in contact with the newsroom in RTE about getting work experience. He had some pretty well known contacts yet was eventually told that RTE could not take anyone on from work experience unless they were from a university. He was told he could come in for one day only. While I understand the usefullness of Media Degree courses, he had built up technical skills that a lot of the degree courses couldn't match. It doesn't make sense for RTE to make it so difficult for these people to get into the industry, they possess the talent and creativity that will carry the station into future.

Telefís

Whle I agree with you to an extent on that, one also has to take into account that the Newsroom is just inundated with requests for work experience: they're out the door with them, especially coming up to the summer, and the very time that they reduce themselves to a skeleton staff.

Overall with the organisation, a lot of the damage I find is being done by the Independent Production Unit or IPU. This is the department through which at this stage most Irish output is processed. They issue a brief once or twice a year for the type of progs they want prod companies to pitch to them.

The resulting type of appallingly made stuff includes Househunters which beggars belief in its crappiness and production values, House of Love, Showhouse, Mono, Beyond the Hall Door, The Lyrics Board etc etc etc.
The vast majority, including The Restaurant (though better than most) are poorly, shoddily made programmes, ripped off from far superior UK versions - and crucially, pitched by the same golden circle of RTÉ favourites, year in year out, the same old crap from Tyrone Productions, Coco Television and Philip Kampff.

I don't necessarily place all the blame with RTÉ; there is a major problem in trying to come up with decent talent, and decent ideas/formats. I don't know how you fix this.

The biggest problem I think though is formats - there is a void in Ireland in this respect, perfectly shown by 'Showhouse'.
Could one come up with a more basic, clunky format than to hire two interior designers to decorate two developers' houses with €50,000 each to spend?!
That's the format! No competition, no tension, no innovative ideas shown, no climax - nothing! The viewer just gets to coo at all the vulgar nouveaux riche designer crap being shovelled into developer boxes standing in fields in the middle of nowhere.
Suppose at least it reflects modern Ireland :rolleyes:

And suffice to say, yet again devised by Philip Kampff. He has RTÉ under his little finger.
It is all of this standard everyday programming that needs drastic improvements. The Restaurant is yet another production based on a lousy format - the cheapest of the cheap, basic idea.

Compare any of this to the likes of Location Location Location etc in the UK. Simple ideas, but fantastically well made, with iconic, competent presenters.
By contrast we get bland DCU Communications graduates from Monkstown, and editors who couldn't recognise a well assembled programme if it hit them in the face.

RTÉ up till recently was criticised for its parochial in-house production, now I think it is the out-sourced stuff that is to be scorned - it attempts to be the exact opposite of the past - fast-paced and contemporary. Only it's not because its made up of poor concepts, poor presenters, poor content and poor production values.

Give me Pat Kenny, a priest and a hack at a studio desk anyday.

limerick_man

RTE wrote:

Suppose at least it reflects modern Ireland

Ha, no modern Ireland is all about new bold ideas.. modern Ireland gets the rest of the world to following this little island! Modern Ireland is big dreams, big outputs!

Two nights ago McBride stood up to the worlds most fierce Boxer! He said, "When I punch you, Its not just me punching you, its every irish person! And when Irland punches you, you'll be seeing stars, cause i'm gonna knock you into space" He has since retired 'Iron' Mike Tyson!

Big and Bold ... Ireland is now a world leader in education, in acting, in employment, in the economy, in music.

RTÉ does not reflect on modern Ireland!

Wheels

RTE wrote:

Whle I agree with you to an extent on that, one also has to take into account that the Newsroom is just inundated with requests for work experience: they're out the door with them, especially coming up to the summer, and the very time that they reduce themselves to a skeleton staff.

He applied during Feb of last year and to be honest the whole "only from a uni" comment really got to him. If they want to change things they need to be more open to new talent. Instead of packing the place with useless work experience students, create specific places that people must actually prove they deserve. Why can't the attempt to nuture new talent like the BBC and even ITV? They offer programmes that train people in house for a set period of time that gives them a real chance and a great start.

Have to say though, despite all this I was very impressed with Haughy tonight.

Telefís

I totally agree with you Wheels - that is a disgraceful attitude to only take on certain types of people. If nothing else, work experience is about giving anybody interested an opportunity to get a glimpse of the industry, as well as to get someone to make the tea . Yes the training programmes offered by the BBC is a model to be adopted here - not just the professional producer/director/camera courses run for graduates that RTÉ currently operate, but courses and other such opportunities for students.
As far as I know the work experience element was cut back during the pre-licence increase days - I don't know if it has returned to normal again.

Yes, documentary series like Haughey, or the Fine Gael series last year, or Hidden History etc are all beautifully made (if not all a bit mutedly similar) - certainly a strong point of out national broadcaster, which is why they are promoted so much as they're comparitively cheap to make, easy to assemble, and rather conveniently fulfill RTÉ's remit to a tee

Entertainment is the big problem, and it's only gonna get bigger if ignored.
It's so difficult to get right - as the IPU themselves have acknowledged; they've documentary pitches coming out their ears, but few people willing to chance, let alone make entertainment productions, whether they be family, young or older people oriented, comedy, sitcom, quiz, studio-based, location stuff......it doesn't matter, production companies aren't willing to touch it with a bargepole.
So anyone that does - like Philip Kampff - get pounced on by RTÉ, regardless of what tripe it is they've concocted. Hence we end up with so much lowest common denominator drivel.

Personally I have a very strong affection for RTÉ (you'd never guess ), and listen and watch to much of its quality output across both mediums, but there's so much wrong, especially in television that it taints everything else to an unfortunate degree. I don't think that there's the same level of cirticism of the BBC in the UK that there is for RTÉ - perhaps that's down to the fact that RTÉ is much more prominent and different being practically the only Irish service or note, that it stands out.

Production presentation is my big gripe with the station, so as this aspect of programme making affects every single television production, I see big big problems
But in terms of content, the majority is of a good standard which is something to always keep at the back of the mind I feel, regardless of the unadulterated rage one my feel at times when watching the odd programme

Capt'n Midnight

Gerry Ryan takes a lot of sickies.

You'd think their HR dept. would have copped on by now. Seems like one day lost every fortnight and that's not counting the holidays. And then there all the days when he announces how poorly he is feeling.

Some might argue that he is unique. But I prefer others doing the show which means the format, researchers and other background staff are fine. It's just that they are frequently let down by unprofessionalism of a person who IMHO (and probably his Doctors too. judging by the number of days missed) is unfit to broadcast on a daily basis. Also the production values could be greatly improved by simply using reinvesting part of the savings on payroll back into the show.

As a license payer I think he should be be given a written warning at this stage. Even if it is not his fault and he has doctors notes then due to the highly public nature of his work a transfer to another role may be appropiate.

In all seriousness as Have I Got News on the BBC has proved, if the format is right you don't need a big shot presenter, competent guest presenters will do just as well at a fraction of the cost. Then again judging by Mr. Ryan's frequent non-appearances this may already be the case.

/RANT - yeah it's a TV forum but the savings could pay for RTE to go FTA for home produced stuff.

Shib

RTE know that no matter what tripe they put on TV, there's NO WAY they'll EVER stop getting the licence fees. For free. Independant of the quality of output.

Unlike TV3, who if they had the same programming quality as RTE, would be out of business already.

There's just no impetus for them to get better. Why should they?

Elmo

Unlike TV3, who if they had the same programming quality as RTE, would be out of business already.

Do you think that Ireland AM is better then anything that RTE produces.

TV3 lies on the back of shows that (Unfortately and Stupidly) RTE orginally promoted. Plus all the **** that ITV gives it.

I think TV3 has a role but they are not doing it. As do RTE and they also are not doing it.

I see some improvements with RTE TWO but it has gone very much down hill over the past number of years.

There's just no impetus for them to get better. Why should they?

If TV3 wanted they could be part of the Impetus. All they want to do is Make money.

But then I know everyone will reply with BUT we don't pay for TV3.

My answer to that is. The public have given TV3 a licence to Broadcast into Ireland time they too started to promote something other the ITV.

Back in 2001, RTÉ decided to scrap the most successful programme in their history. Yes, Glenroe had deteriorated in quality, but the RTÉ attitude was 'just ditch it'. The same thing happened to 'Emmerdale Farm' back in the early 90s, but ITV's response was to improve storylines

Personnally I think that shows should NOT run for more then 15 years. Its pointless and shows no imagination to keep running the same show for 30 remember Emmers it a copy of The Roirdains.

ITV is lazy with Emmers and Coronation St running at 5 to 7 times a week. Can you imagine if RTE ran Fair City and Glenroe 5 to 7 times a week. GOD NO.

TG4 have IMO total kicked RTE in the ass, only because it is in Irish does it not kick RTE into Gear.

RTE continue to have a lame excuse for a competitor in TV3.

TV3 continue to give out about the 50% european output which they are required to have when that 50% is their top RATED shows from ITV.

limerick_man

Ok lets face it TV3 is better than RTE 1 and 2, never mind TG4! No matter what TV3 show it seems only a certain number of people will watch it! Its like a few weeks back RTE and TV3 showed the same movie Tv3 showed it like 2 days beforehand and RTE got like 25% higher share! Its as if people refuse to watch TV3 because they think they will be stealing or something!
RTE has produceed stuff like Just for laughs and the panel, but Tv3 have the offside show and popcorn (which are more popular)!

RobertFoster

TV3 is full of advertising. If I want to watch something which is longer than a half an hour on TV3, I generally record it so I can fast forward the ads.

Telefís

Limerick Man, to compare the two stations on the basis of two programmes is hardly accurate.

RTÉ is miles better than TV3 in most respects. Agreed with the sentiments of Elmo - fundamentally they own our OUR Irish broadcasting licence, unless they stop churning out the content of ITV, they might as well shut up shop as an Irish television station.

But I'd concede that one's perspective of the two orgainisations does depend somewhat on what you watch - if you're over 30 you're probably much more likely to favour RTÉ, whilst the output of TV3 will appeal greatly to younger people much more so than RTÉ 1, and certainly to the same extent if not greater than RTÉ 2.

Personally I don't watch TV3 for anything at all - absolutely nothing on it is of appeal minus the odd glimpse of the Political Party.
A lot of criticism of the stations is objective, but certainly there is a degree of subjectivity in there too.

RuggieBear

RTE wrote:

Personally I don't watch TV3 for anything at all - absolutely nothing on it is of appeal minus the odd glimpse of the Political Party.
A lot of criticism of the stations is objective, but certainly there is a degree of subjectivity in there too.

ditto....i actually hate the channel tbh. It's like a second rate ITV...which is pretty poor to begin with :eek:

Elmo

Ok lets face it TV3 is better than RTE 1 and 2, never mind TG4!

I get the feeling like many people you don't like TG4 because it is in Irish. That's not a great reason for not liking TG4.

TG4 provide sporting programmes to the viewing pubic for 3.5million euro. TV3 could if they wanted to that with their TV station. Now I am not a fan of Sport and my Irish isn't all that great but I can see how TG4 have utilised Sport to attract viewers to their station. On average TG4 will get 100,000 viewers for their LIVE sporting output. Imagine how many viewers TV3 would get and all just for 3.5million Euro.

Its as if people refuse to watch TV3 because they think they will be stealing or something!

It is pretty much the same with RTE TWO. If RTE show a movie first on RTE TWO they can be gaurenteed the same viewership that TV3 get for a new movie, why would they show a new movie on RTE TWO is the question when they can get Twice as many viewers on RTE ONE.

Indeed the only shows people seem to be watching are Coronation Street and Emmerdale on TV3.

RTE has produceed stuff like Just for laughs and the panel, but Tv3 have the offside show and popcorn (which are more popular)!

I don't know if I consider Popcorn a TV show. I don't think stringing a load of Movie adds is first Rate TV. Its as about as good as watching E4 during the day.
Just for Laughs and The Panel are more popular. I think A soccer Entertainment show is a very narrow idea for a show. Mainly beacause I don't find Soccer very entertaining.

you're over 30 you're probably much more likely to favour RTÉ,

I don't get this I am sure people over the age of 30 watch Coro St. and Emmers, I would think that they are the main viewers for such shows.

I have said it before and I will say it again. The main problem with RTE TWO is the schedule.

TV3 have yet to do anything very orginal of their own. I would like to see them do well on their own productions but they have no really committment to Irish production.

I wouldn't be surprised if Setanta Sport pick up The Offside Show if TV3 don't next year.

I would just like to say at this point that I am as unimpressed with RTE as I am with TV3.

and I think the Restaurant on RTE is quiet a good show. Its just that it is on RTE ONE which I don't watch very often.

Round Cable

Brilliant post Ray777, you've summed up well what's wrong with RTÉ these days, only for the news/sport, I don't tune to RTÉ, their huge on screen logo's done enough to scare me away from any American programming they have.

aidan_dunne

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Gerry Ryan takes a lot of sickies.

You'd think their HR dept. would have copped on by now. Seems like one day lost every fortnight and that's not counting the holidays. And then there all the days when he announces how poorly he is feeling.

And this isn't a new thing of Ryan's either, I noticed this going on years ago. And you know why he's always taking sickies? Because he's always hungover, that's why! He's always going on about how he was out at some show or some party or some opening night of something or other or something similar the previous night all the time and how great a night he had and how the drink was flowing freely and how he had a great time but, "unfortunately listeners, I must apologise if I don't feel or sound the best this morning". Either that or he's always going on about how he went home last night and cracked open a fine port or brandy or something similar and indulged himself while watching a fantastic DVD or reading a great book or something or other. He's always going on about it. And, needless to say, then he's always complaining about how "unwell" he's feeling or he just plain doesn't show up for work, full stop, and Gareth O' Callaghan or Dave Fanning or someone has to come on to fill in for him. And, as I said before, this isn't a new thing, it's been going on for years with him and it's just progressively gotten worse and worse.

As far as I can see, RTE puts up with this behaviour because he's one of their biggest "stars" (and I use that word very advisedly indeed!) and has a pretty good listenership, but this carry on is totally unprofessional. Save your going out or drinking for the weekend, Gerry, and do the f**king job you're being paid so handsomely to do! And please, SHUT THE F**K UP about it all as well. :mad: I'm fed up hearing about what great party or opening night you were at last night or how many brandies you had last night while "enjoying a fine Monte Cristo cigar and a good book". You just come off as a complete pretentious twat going on about it all the time.

/Rant over/

limerick_man

Ok so.... I dont like TG4 because they show old movies and almost half the output is in a language I dont speak, yes I agree I guess not understanding what is being said, does make me dislike the programming!

TV3 (on the whole) show the greatest movies, fun programmes. Ireland AM and TV3 News are great!

People all have their own opinions .... but we pay for RTE and not for TV3, so i do feel more heartache towards RTE, even though i am angry at TV3 for having a similar seducale to UTV!

aidan_walsh

limerick_man wrote:

they show old movies

Many of those being classics that people can enjoy time and time again. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

limerick_man wrote:

I guess not understanding what is being said, does make me dislike the programming!

Quite a bit of it, especially the later evening programming, is fully subtitled. TG4 have some wonderful documentary series, even if Fior Sceal is essentially a foreign documentary translated into Irish. That said though, they did have the great Amú series (even if Hector grates after a bit), and have easily pumped much, much more money into self made programming than TV3 have. The plus side, its paid off for them and the result is that they have a number of success stories under their belts.

limerick_man wrote:

Ireland AM and TV3 News are great!

TV3 News is the television equivilant of The Sun.

limerick_man wrote:

fun programmes

Irish made? Frankly, Agenda was the only decent show they ever made, and they dropped it. Popcorn is alright, but I don't see anything that I don't see on apple.com/trailers anyway. Anything else they have made has been dumbed down so much its almost impossible to watch.

newgrange

TG4 shows there are plenty of innovative TV makers in Ireland, but sadly, they do not work for RTE.
Some of the best programmes I've seen in the past year have been on TG4. I know many of them are bought in and dubbed, but even their self-produced stuff has production values far beyond anything on RTE.

Ray777

limerick_man wrote:

Ok lets face it TV3 is better than RTE 1 and 2, never mind TG4!

I'm sorry, do you receive the same TV3 as I do? The only purpose TV3 serves, is to make RTÉ look vastly better than it actually is. It is a complete waste of bandwidth, providing nothing but a constant diet of televisual chewing gum, aimed towards schoolgirls and the cerebrally challenged. TV3 must be the least innovative national broadcaster in Europe. They are to the television industry, what McDonalds is to the restaurant industry. Bland, vacant thrash, with poor style and no substance.

Ireland AM and TV3 News are great!

I think I've been sitting in front of this screen for far too long and have begun to hallucinate. I could have sworn you said that Ireland AM and TV3 News are great. To compare TV3 News to The Sun, does the paper something of a disservice. It is absolutely atrocious, again without an ounce of substance or journalistic quality. They announced the death of Pope John Paul II twenty-four hours too soon. Then, when he did die, rather than interrupt 'The Swan' with a newsflash, some text saying "Pope Dies: News Bulletin Follows this Programme" glided across the screen, beneath footage of semi naked plastic women.

Ireland AM is quite possibly the most awfully produced load of rubbish ever screened on Irish television (even worse than 'The Afternoon Show', which takes some doing). The presenters are desperately wooden, without an ounce of chemistry. The set looks twenty years out of date and most of their 'features' are nothing more than thinly veiled advertisements.

Telefís

Agreed with every word Ray - you sum things up very well.
Though I'd qualify that about TV3 by saying that their news has far superior production values to RTÉ. They are a million times better in virtually every aspect of television presentation.

It is a scandalous state of affairs that the national broadcaster's news service, established for an approaching half century, looks like the output of a student television station compared to the slickness of TV3's production.
It is nothing short of a shambles at times.

Some discussion going on over on tvforum website if interested...

Elmo

On RTE News. I have to say I think Una O'Hagan is one of the best News Readers we have. She always seems very professional. Totally Underated.

But yes RTE News do tend to have the odd **** up or two.

TG4 Movies tend to be older but so do RTE TWO's movies. I personally don't think getting a network TV preimer makes you a top TV station if RTE ("more then any other TV station in ireland") and TV3 think its about top movies there sadly mistaken. Most of the movies they show I have seen anyway.

TG4 do have an exceltent number of good US shows currently. Better then TV3 crop, Arrested Dev and Malcome being the only good ones.

segadreamcast

limerick_man wrote:

Ok so.... I dont like TG4 because they show old movies and almost half the output is in a language I dont speak, yes I agree I guess not understanding what is being said, does make me dislike the programming!

TV3 (on the whole) show the greatest movies, fun programmes. Ireland AM and TV3 News are great!

People all have their own opinions .... but we pay for RTE and not for TV3, so i do feel more heartache towards RTE, even though i am angry at TV3 for having a similar seducale to UTV!

Judging by your comments on both this thread and 'the offside show' thread, I have come to the conclusion that you either word for TV3 or are extremely deluded... no offence, like, but TV3 is still dire - they show the odd good movie, but the homegrown stuff is absolutely atrocious.

Nevertheless, they are trying new things - so credit where it's due. TG4 is probably the best station in terms of programming in Ireland I think, though I never watch it because it's in Irish.

RainyDay

Give RTE some credit - The recent Prime Time show on the nursing homes was worth every penny of the licence fee on its own. It will be a long time before TV3 comes up with anything of such value.

homah_7ft

Excellent post Ray. I totally agree with you. Regarding TV3 versus TG4 I would have to say TG4 is a winner every time. The main thing being that it is different. Whereas some stations try to portry an identity with tags etc. TG4 actually has one. The home produced content is high quality. Its bought in shows fit in well with the rest of the content. Especially tricky considering the language change.

RTE will never be the BBC. It simply doesn't have the resources. It does a lot right. Its sports coverage is quirky and has an edge. I have the panel for Rugby coverage in mind. The documentaries can be excellent. I love show me the money. It's a format taken from the BBC but with a distinctly irish flavour without losing any impact.

Ray has covered most of what RTE does wrong. Just one more little thing to add. Do they have to give away what is going to happen in series like 24 before it starts?

Telefís

Yes it really is the 'Súil Éile' of TG4 that results in so much of its quality content and 'alternative' way of doing things. Even their on-screen continuity presenters infront a quirky CG backdrop works really well - fresh and distinctive. If TV3 came up with something along those lines alone it would give them some identity - and perhaps even shock! connect them to the country they're based in :rolleyes:

Totally agreed (have to stop saying that) about Una O'Hagan - she's probably the only competent female newsreader in RTÉ outside of Anne Cassin.
She speaks pefect Hiberno English , formal yet not too uptight, and has a pleasant neutral accent. And perhaps most importantly of all, she can hold her own when things go wrong and (gasp) can her own questions! - a novelty in the RTÉ newsroom.
The others must be in complete awe of her.

I was annoyed recently watching the Six One with others and they were saying what an awful drip she was, and what she was wearing was something your great auntie would wear to a wedding.
Quite the opposite is the case: she's the best RTÉ has on the female side - even better than Doyle. Certainly a clearing out of the old wood is needed, but Una's one branch to hold onto. She's the flippin trunk for goodness sake

limerick_man

RTE news output is amazingly bad! At this stage I'd rather wait for the headlines on TV3 or ... actually i wont go that far (I was about to say Sky News Ireland)!

TV3 represents all of Ireland rather than just Dublin! Its as if all RTE hosts and newsreaders are recommended by friends or something... everyone seems to be from Dublin and all news is pro dublin and from a dublin prospective! I must say TG4 (from what i understand) gives a more varied news reading... but i've heard their studios are in Galway! Soo....

Ray777

Telef&#237 wrote: »

Though I'd qualify that about TV3 by saying that their news has far superior production values to RTÉ. They are a million times better in virtually every aspect of television presentation.

Yes, aesthetically, TV3 News is light-years ahead of RTÉ. To be honest though, even if Bryan Dobson and Una O'Hagan were sitting on a wooden bench in a dark room, I'd still prefer RTÉ's news output. Beyond the visual appearance, RTÉ News has so much more substance, and the talent and resources to delve deeper into stories. I get the impression that TV3 spends too much of their budget on 'looking slick'.

limerick_man wrote:

TV3 represents all of Ireland rather than just Dublin! Its as if all RTE hosts and newsreaders are recommended by friends or something... everyone seems to be from Dublin and all news is pro dublin and from a dublin prospective!

Paschal Sheehy, Jim Fahy, Anne Doyle, Ingrid Miley. I could name more. Just because they may have lost their regional accents, doesn't mean they're all Dubs. Most of TV3's correspondants seem to have been plucked from local Dublin radio stations.


Where RTÉ excell, is in the areas of sport coverage, news, current affairs and documentaries. In terms of current affairs, I think they're streets ahead of even the BBC, who have deteriorated massively in recent years. Newsnight is just pure pantomime stuff nowadays, with Paxo as its star attraction. Prime Time, on the other hand, is excellent, with great presenters and a refusal to follow the BBC's lead and pander to 'the cult of the personality'.

Elmo

'the cult of the personality'.

Yeah bono was on NewsNight last night .

I have to say I like TV3 News Graphics but not the current set, I think it is very dated.

But to me it always seems that when a news room have good on screen graphics the sets are usless and visa versa.

Nuacht TG4 had good graphics up about last year they are not as good as they where. The set is ok.

I think if Channel 6 is going to make an impact they need to serious look at Irish Programming and an Identy rather then just being an Irish Version of Sky One.

If TV3 where only available in on Sat. and Cable they would be in serious trouble.

Telefís

Certainly - indeed one would wonder as to the percentage of its Coronation St/Heartbeat etc etc audience who watch the station simply to get better reception over UTV...

Limerick Man I cannot see how you believe TV3 acknowledges there's life outside Dublin - it is the most Dublin-centred broadcaster in this country outside of 98fm!
Absolutely everything revolves around it - especially the content of Ireland AM. Likewise the showbiz fluff on the news has rarely stepped a toe beyond the county border.

All prizes and promotions offered on most of its programmes are based in Dublin, the vast majority of its news coverage stems from Dublin, the only iconic idents the station uses with the exception of Galway Cathedral are Dublin based, and all in all the station is completely absorbed in M50 culture; out there in motorway land where the world revolves around Dublin and its sprawling suburbs.

And being an independent commercial broadcaster, it is immune from any criticism about this fact; whereas RTÉ is slammed day and night for being based in D4, I have yet to hear a single note of criticism - ever - about TV3.
The Property Show is the station's first foray into the no man's land of the rest of the country.


As for the look of TV3 News, the set is dated all right, indeed it was from the moment it was launched. But the graphics are superb, including titles and astons. But crucially it is the assembly of their productions that is so impressive - from cuing of reports, to newsreaders 'working' the format well by expecting graphics to come up on time, music to come in at the right places, the superb editing of their (otherwise appalling) reports etc etc.

It's all so slick, whereas RTÉ are as clunky and error-ridden as the day is long.
Both the aesthetics and on-air operations with the national broadcaster are poor.

Elmo

It's all so slick, whereas RTÉ are as clunky and error-ridden as the day is long.

I only ever notice errors on SIX ONE. Perhaps its just me.

Telefís

Like yesterday with Dermot in Brussels :rolleyes:
How come satellite links never ever break down with the BBC?

Nine is pretty bad now too. I don't include just major things like reports going down as errors, but other stupid little things like the wide shot cutting in too late after the music has stopped coming back after the break, so we're left with a long awkward silence until the cut to the shot of presenter. Stupid niggly mis-cues are rampant in RTÉ - barely a bulletin goes by without a silly thing like that happening.

Likewise with VT's running out while the presenter is delivering a live voice over - so often not enough footage is laid down and so black kicks in.
Constantly happening.
Or chairs left thrown out in front of the monitor unit evident in the final wide shot, left over from a guest speaking earlier. I could go on forever - believe me

By contrast you could watch the BBC Ten News, or Six, solidly for two weeks without a single hitch - and I mean without even the most trivial of errors as some would percieve it.

It's nothing to do with resources - it's about skill level and commitment to the job.

limerick_man

The Offside show for the end of the season seemed to have all limerick guests and kilkenny preformers! They were talking about limerick issues (not the gangs) and constantly brought up the kilkenny cats laugh festival (all the guests seemed to be doing it)!

Hell even the weather on TV3 has a nationwide appeal! They show pics of places throughout the country (although they should change the limerick picture)!

TV3 were the only news broadcaster on TV to admit that theyre had been 3 murders in Dublin in a week (RTE said it on Artel but not the actual show)

You can expect RTÉ to have a mistake or two on the 6.1 show its the only hour long show, and unlike BBC they are amazingly understaffed!

nlgbbbblth

Ray777 wrote:

Back in 2001, RTÉ decided to scrap the most successful programme in their history. Yes, Glenroe had deteriorated in quality, but the RTÉ attitude was 'just ditch it'. The same thing happened to 'Emmerdale Farm' back in the early 90s, but ITV's response was to improve storylines. Couldn't that have also been done with Glenroe? The sheer laziness and lack of imagination shown by RTÉ was staggering.

It would have helped Glenroe if it was shown more than once a week and didn't take a break for the summer. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

nlgbbbblth

It would be nice if RTE released some of their archive programmes on DVD.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122985&highlight=neglected

aidan_walsh

nlgbbbblth wrote:

It would have helped Glenroe if it was shown more than once a week and didn't take a break for the summer. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You mean just like what they've done with Fair City? Yeah, that paid off...

limerick_man

aidan_walsh wrote:

You mean just like what they've done with Fair City? Yeah, that paid off...

That did pay off!

Its now one of the most watched shows on Irish TV!

Elmo

It would have helped Glenroe if it was shown more than once a week and didn't take a break for the summer.

IMO RTE had 3 choices with Glenroe

1. Axe It (Which they did)
2. Bring it to 3 days a week, make it a full time soap.
3. Make it a full hour long Drama.

I think Bring it to 3 days would have been a waste of money. And would just be showing that RTE have a very limited Imagination in regards Drama. I personnally like the American Dramas more then British Soap. I think RTE should try to go for something more like the american Dramas then the British Soaps.

limerick_man

Same here, American rather than British, i feel, should be tryed under all headings (series, sitcoms etc.)! An american style show with an Irish spin is what is needed!

Telefís

Glenroe was dead in the water - it had to be axed.

There was no point in increasing the output; a small station like RTÉ does not need two soaps going out to that extent. So the only option was to axe it.
It had some appalling acting too, though saying that Fair City is miles worse - especially the scripting.
Do us all a favour and ditch that too.

DublinWriter

Telef&#237 wrote: »

Glenroe was dead in the water - it had to be axed.

True, the last series was pathetic.

RTE=Television/Radio station run by civil servants who go about their job with the enthusiasm of an arthritic old man following a horse and cart collecting manure for his garden.

Scrap the licence fee now, it only accounts for 30% of RTE's annual revenue. An RTE made 30% worse will still be RTE.

Firstly, they should end the 250,000K golden handcuff agreement with Gay Byrne and release the money to some independent producers to do some original programming.

Secondly, they should nurture more (and cheaper) talent.

Thirdly, they should sack about 50% of their current middle-management layer.

GUBU

I agree that the licence fee should be scrapped at this stage. Why do they need advertising revenue and the licence fee when other television stations can run on one or the other? It appears that some serious money is being wasted when it comes to buying in programmes. What is the point in importing quality American dramas like 'Six Feet Under', only to put them on at 2:15 a.m. and fill up the early evening schedules with dross like 'Joey'?

Telefís

Oh for goodness sake - to say again, the licence fee accounts for way more than 30% of revenues - more like 50%-60%

RTÉ could not sustain any level of its services without the licence fee - it would also be operated on a commercially driven basis where little gets made outside of profitable ratings being achievable.

Exceedingly few state broadcasters in Europe operate exclusively on advertising revenues, if any at all in fact. And the vast vast majority are dual funded.
And RTÉ more than most, being in such a competitive market washed with UK output, more than most I think is deserving of the fee - not just for traditional public service programming reasons, but also the fact that it is essentially 'Irish Television'.

Elmo

What is the point in importing quality American dramas like 'Six Feet Under', only to put them on at 2:15 a.m.

Please Please Please If I haven't said it before email andrew.fitzpatrick@rte.ie about the schedule. He is the Head of Scheduling at RTE and head of RTE TWO.

Glenroe was dead in the water - it had to be axed.

Of course it had gone down hill when after 16 years the main characters had remained the same. Most US drama go throught the same phase and then fizzly out, which is the way it should be (KEN BARLOW :mad: )

But I have to say that its was good to see RTE invest money into other drama such as "on home ground" (even if it was pathic) and "the clinic" (which I like) and "Proof" (well it was something different). I won't count the drama output on RTE TWO as they should be looked a as an entirely seprate entity, which should have its own set amount of Drama.

Firstly, they should end the 250,000K golden handcuff agreement with Gay Byrne and release the money to some independent producers to do some original programming.

I honestly don't beleive this.

Secondly, they should nurture more (and cheaper) talent.

Yes and TV3 could do this also. I mean a morning show isn't going to nurture more talent, I mean the only question their is how many Amanda Bryrmes can you get? (Feeling sick just thinking about that)

And RTÉ more than most, being in such a competitive market washed with UK output, more than most I think is deserving of the fee - not just for traditional public service programming reasons, but also the fact that it is essentially 'Irish Television'.

Yes i think if you got rid of the licence fee you would end up with a very commercial station like TV3.

TV3 could easily have many of the sports that TG4 have but would rather make money on cheep imports.

superdudeman007

Ray777 wrote:

And then of course, the introduction of permanent on-screen logos. Why? The idea that it's all about 'brand recognition' is absolute rubbish. The vast majority of people with anything vaguely resembling a brain know what channel they're watching, without an irritating logo in the corner of the screen. With the introduction of on screen logos, nothing positive has been added to RTÉ's service. Other than make our state broadcaster look like a cheap SKY channel, nothing has been achieved. Again, it wasn't broken...

They said on another thread that it's to do with ad revenue too - if Eastenders is on both RTE1 and BBC1, Irish people would be unable to tell which was RTE1, watch BBC1, and lose ad revenue for RTE.

Logos hardly made it any better - I personally change over to BBC or UTV just to escape from the logo!

superdudeman007

I've heard that Veronica Mars was huge in the US, but don't have a chance to check out a single episode because RTÉ are showing it at 3pm rather than in prime time, or when they're showing 5-year-old half-episodes of The Bill

Mossy Monk

superdudeman007 wrote:

or when they're showing 3-year-old half-episodes of The Bill

sorry to break it to you. Veronica Mars wouldn't fit into that slot. and have you not ever heard of a VCR. i am sure you have but thats not convenient due to your obsession at moaning about everything

fly_agaric

Dubin Writer wrote:

Scrap the licence fee now, it only accounts for 30% of RTE's annual revenue. An RTE made 30% worse will still be RTE.

What good reasons do you have for wanting to see the licence fee scrapped other than a desire to pay less tax/irrational hatred of RTE?
You even admit that RTE will actually get worse (it'll be much more like TV3 or God forbid Channel 6) if that is done!:rolleyes:
Just guessing, but some of the things we probably like about RTE (news, documentaries, the occasional good home-produced drama or comedy) are more expensive and will suffer if RTE loses a big chunk of revenue, while the cheap and nasty things we generally dislike (e.g. cheap imports which very many people can watch somewhere else anyway, crappy + cheap as chips "reality" tv) will expand to fill the available space.
Surely we want to see RTE improve it's output - not make it worse.