Sneaky speedcheck on M1 today

Turner

I think the idea is that if you have a fleet of gatsos, randomly change their positions it acts as a deterrent.

Everybody knows there will be some sort of speed check on the naas road throughout the day. Still people travel at 100-120kmph on it. When they get caught its "the gards are generating revenue"

As for high risk areas not being policed, these are usually in rural areas where police man power is low. Hence high numbers of police around dublin operating speed checks.

Everybody knows that they are taking a risk of getting caught when they travel over the speed limit. I was clocked doing 38mph in a 30 zone and fined. Never have exceeded the limit on that road since.

whippet

we should spend our time abserving speed limits, not the road

???????

If you can't observe and pay heed to warning signs and speed limit signs while concentrating on the road, you shouldn't be on the road.

BrianD

edmund_f wrote:

i think he already stated his case pretty well, i think it is very irish to take the extreme view just prove yourself right, or more importantly someone else wrong. The point here is that the speed camera at this position is extreme, and while technically correct and legal is not fair.

anyone doing 120+ through here will be just as likely to be doing 140+ on the motorway, so why not catch them there. As far as i can see, there is a pretty major hazard and all a gatso van will be doing will be adding another dangrous element to it.

It is fair! One could argue that it is safe to travel on m-ways at speed in excess on 120KPH as they do in Germany (generally speaking). However, a speed restriction is required at road works for the safety of road users and workers. It therefore makes perfect sense to target motorists at these locations to achieve the desire results.

Victor

To the person who said there was no warning of the change in limits:

Ayashii wrote:

The sneakiness of the speed trap is really what astounded me as there are no speed reduction signs prior to the roadworks only a sign indicating that there is road works ahead.

Victor

Macy wrote:

I'll use another example. What would be more effective at reducing drink driving on a Saturday night? A unmarked car pulling over one person the whole night, or a marked car cruising up and down outside pub car parks in a village for example?

Neither is effective, however a combination of the two would be.

Ayashii

As the original poster of this thread its been very interesting to see the replies and the polarisation of opinion. I'll be very curious to see the threads on here when the speed camera network is privatised and people are being caught at a much greater frequency then they are now for such reckless behaviour as 32kmph in a 30kmph zone, but then again, they got what they deserved right? :rolleyes:

Either way the facts still stand. A sign indicating road works (which means drop to what speed anyone? 100 perhaps? 80 maybe - Is it different on a motorway than a national route - perhaps the zero penalty point posters can reply) and then an 80kmph sign (which may or may not be legal depending on whether or not the rules of the RTA were followed) , then a speed camera straight after this 80kmph sign and then another new sign indicating 50kmph is unreasonable in my opinion.

And all this at 9.20 am on a Saturday morning with no workmen around.....

Our man in Havana

maybe someone can check with the NRA as to the validity of the limits?

Victor

Ayashii wrote:

A sign indicating road works (which means drop to what speed anyone? 100 perhaps? 80 maybe

A roadworks sign means "roadworks", i.e. prepare for the road layout to be not like it had been previously and that there may be temporary hazards like heavy vehicles, workmen, Stop/Go control, etc.

The speed limits then qualify what you should do, having perviously gotten your attantion with the roadworks sign.

But to be honest, you're just a trolling gobshíte who thinks "The signs aren't for me, they are for other people".

PS Hi Búbbles.

DubTony

Ayashii wrote:

And all this at 9.20 am on a Saturday morning with no workmen around.....

That's the crucial point. I don't think anyone minds slowing down for roadworks - when there are works going on. But what's really annoying is to come upon a "Road Works Ahead" sign, slow down as everyone else tears past (cos they know) and there is no sign of any work happening. Is it any wonder people ignore the temporary speed limits.

The N7 widening is a perfect example. Apart from a 60k zone in the middle of the night when there is absolutely no work happening, the works area is seperated from the road by kilometres of steel barrier. The only justification for a reduction in limits is where works traffic joins the main carraigeway,a nd there are only 2 or 3 locations where that happens.

I mentioned in a post a while back about the new barriers on the M9. This was a perfect example of laziness where works are concerned. The overtaking lane of the M9 from the M7 to about 500 metres short of Kilcullen was coned off for barrier installation. This was a bank holiday Saturday afternoon and not a single workman in sight.

Use signage that informs drivers of work that is being carried out NOW. Not tomorrow or last week. NOW. And on the "Road Works Ahead" sign, put a "80k limit 1500 metres ahead" or something to that effect. Then there'll be no excuse for speeding in those areas. And for God's sake, take the things down when the workers are going home, if appropriate.

Turner

DubTony wrote:

The N7 widening is a perfect example. Apart from a 60k zone in the middle of the night when there is absolutely no work happening, the works area is seperated from the road by kilometres of steel barrier.

People taking their eyes off the road and gawking in at the works that are going on though would be a hazard to traffic travelling at 100kmph.

Like when an accident occurs on a dual carriageway, you are sure to have another one happen on the opposite side caused by people slowing down and gawking over to see whats going on.

Victor

DubTony wrote:

Use signage that informs drivers of work that is being carried out NOW. Not tomorrow or last week. NOW. And on the "Road Works Ahead" sign, put a "80k limit 1500 metres ahead" or something to that effect. Then there'll be no excuse for speeding in those areas. And for God's sake, take the things down when the workers are going home, if appropriate.

Fair enough, you can pay for someone to take down the signs and cones at say 8pm (after the rush, because you woiuldn't want the truck picking them up to be there during the rush) and then put them all up at 6am (before the rush).

Then for the 10% of traffic that travels bwetween 8pm-6am they can travel faster.

DubTony

Victor wrote:

Fair enough, you can pay for someone to take down the signs and cones at say 8pm (after the rush, because you woiuldn't want the truck picking them up to be there during the rush) and then put them all up at 6am (before the rush).

Then for the 10% of traffic that travels bwetween 8pm-6am they can travel faster.

Pay for it? I thought I already did. Almost a grand a year on ROAD TAX for 2 cars. A LEVY on car insurance. VRT and VAT on the cars. 21% VAT on car parts. 13.5% VAT on car servicing and repairs. Excise duty and VAT on petrol. VAT on car washes. TOLLS on the M1 and M50. VAT on TOLLS on the M1 and M50. (Did I forget anything? )

And I don't care what time the truck picks them up and puts them out. Maybe it could use the hard shoulder when it stops so it wouldn't get in the way. But at least don't leave them there all weekend. Or hang a sign on it when works are actually in place. Or hang a sign when works are not taking place. Do it whatever way, but simply inform motorists when the works is actually going on instead of leaving us guessing.

Victor

DubTony wrote:

Pay for it? I thought I already did. Almost a grand a year on ROAD TAX for 2 cars. A LEVY on car insurance. VRT and VAT on the cars. 21% VAT on car parts. 13.5% VAT on car servicing and repairs. Excise duty and VAT on petrol. VAT on car washes. TOLLS on the M1 and M50. VAT on TOLLS on the M1 and M50. (Did I forget anything? )

So, this pays for the existing level of service. You want more service. Who pays?

Macy

Victor wrote:

So, this pays for the existing level of service. You want more service. Who pays?

The millions in road construction company profits? Put it as part of the tender and no one pays, because it would cost bugger all in terms of the scale of the projects.

Mind you, if it's anything like the farce on the M11, it'll still be left to the cops to take the cones in, as the construction company continues to breach agreements about lane restrictions :rolleyes:

krinDar

ambro25 wrote:

And Courts will enforce the law with applying it to the finding of fact: i.e. was speeding against local limit or was not, black/white - unless mitigating factors explicitly catered for by RTAct apply, e.g. overtaking at the time, if at all applicable and proved by supporting evidence (a finding of fact to counter another).

I was not aware that the RTA specified that the speed limit does not
apply whilst overtaking - perhaps you could point it out to me.

MrPudding

krinDar wrote:

I was not aware that the RTA specified that the speed limit does not
apply whilst overtaking - perhaps you could point it out to me.

This has been questioned before. I thinkit is, at this stage, a bit of an urban myth. It has been repeated so often that it has actually been confused as law.

MrP

Seth Brundle

Victor wrote:

So, this pays for the existing level of service. You want more service. Who pays?

Motoring related revenue, in fact, more than pays for the existing level of service!

ambro25

krinDar wrote:

I was not aware that the RTA specified that the speed limit does not
apply whilst overtaking - perhaps you could point it out to me.

Can't be arsed + read the post: unless mitigating factors explicitly catered for by RTAct apply, e.g. overtaking at the time, if at all applicable and proved by supporting evidence (a finding of fact to counter another).

So it's a bad example? So what? The principle stands. And pedants stand (hopefully) satisfied that I have admitted my (small) error. :rolleyes:

prospect

Ayashii wrote:

and then an 80kmph sign (which may or may not be legal depending on whether or not the rules of the RTA were followed)

The way I read this is there are two sides to the law, the LETTER of the law, and the SPIRIT of the law.
If the road works were carried out, and no warnings or speed reductions were put in place, you are deffo going to get a 'accident'. If that happens, you'll have a thread with dumbass, typical Irish, lousey government etc.

When the works are taking place, you have people working close to moving traffic, you have a new road layout, you have unsure drivers, you have works traffic, slow moving traffic entering and exiting the site etc. So the obvious safe thing to do is slow down the traffic, in the interests of everyones safety.

If you are the type of driver that approaces road works, and see a speed limit, and ignore it because it may not be 'The LETTER of the law', or if you are the type of driver that sees roadworks, (ie a potentially dangerous situation for all the reasons listed above), and refuse to slow down because there is no sign saying 'SLOW DOWN', then you deserve the points, and a fine.

The SPIRIT of the law: there are other road users around me, there are people (with families) working on the road side, I should slow down here because it is the proper, safe thing to do.

delly

The van was postioned under the flyover just after the 80km sign, so as not to overheat in the sun fyi.

I reckon i could also have been done by him/her on last Sunday week. I've also checked with fingal co.co. to see if the limit has been officialised, and am waiting for a reply.

Paul (MN)

you guys are pathetic. the amount of energy you are expending on this.

I travel that road EVERY MORNING.

The roadworks are first signposted just before the estuary bridge.. about 2 MILES beforehand.

You can see the roadworks for 1 mile beforehand. There are cones everywhere. There are HUGE signs up with updated speed limits. There are heavy duty crash barriers in place.

The new overhead signs are flahsing warning triangles.

Cars around you (like me) are slowing down.

There are big cranes in the median. Guys in high vis vests all over the place.

And you are going to the effort of trying to see if the posted speed limits are legal?
and complaining about the position of a speed trap?

get the fluck over it!

oh and in case you don't remember the roadworks are in the EXACT SPOT where there was a severe accident a few months back which shut the road down.

And judging by the style of driving that I see on the m1 in the morning rush hour commute I am 100% supportive of that speed trap. I have seen asswipes switching lanes at high speed (I'm talking 110kph+) where the roadworks are (as above) when it has been signposted down to 60kph. twats.

delly

Paul (MN) wrote:

you guys are pathetic. the amount of energy you are expending on this.

I travel that road EVERY MORNING.

The roadworks are first signposted just before the estuary bridge.. about 2 MILES beforehand.

You can see the roadworks for 1 mile beforehand. There are cones everywhere. There are HUGE signs up with updated speed limits. There are heavy duty crash barriers in place.

The new overhead signs are flahsing warning triangles.

Cars around you (like me) are slowing down.

There are big cranes in the median. Guys in high vis vests all over the place.

And you are going to the effort of trying to see if the posted speed limits are legal?
and complaining about the position of a speed trap?

get the fluck over it!

oh and in case you don't remember the roadworks are in the EXACT SPOT where there was a severe accident a few months back which shut the road down.

And judging by the style of driving that I see on the m1 in the morning rush hour commute I am 100% supportive of that speed trap. I have seen asswipes switching lanes at high speed (I'm talking 110kph+) where the roadworks are (as above) when it has been signposted down to 60kph. twats.

While we are all entitled to our opinions, i find you to be a little bit on the agressive side. There is also no need for name calling, harmless as it is, personal abuse is not tolerated around here

Turner

Paul (MN) wrote:

you guys are pathetic. the amount of energy you are expending on this.

I travel that road EVERY MORNING.

The roadworks are first signposted just before the estuary bridge.. about 2 MILES beforehand.

You can see the roadworks for 1 mile beforehand. There are cones everywhere. There are HUGE signs up with updated speed limits. There are heavy duty crash barriers in place.

The new overhead signs are flahsing warning triangles.

Cars around you (like me) are slowing down.

There are big cranes in the median. Guys in high vis vests all over the place.

And you are going to the effort of trying to see if the posted speed limits are legal?
and complaining about the position of a speed trap?

get the fluck over it!

oh and in case you don't remember the roadworks are in the EXACT SPOT where there was a severe accident a few months back which shut the road down.

And judging by the style of driving that I see on the m1 in the morning rush hour commute I am 100% supportive of that speed trap. I have seen asswipes switching lanes at high speed (I'm talking 110kph+) where the roadworks are (as above) when it has been signposted down to 60kph. twats.

Well said.

Nice to see somebody speaking sense on here for a change.

krinDar

ambro25 wrote:

Can't be arsed + read the post:

It is obivious you cannot be arsed to ensure what you saying
is correct.

So it's a bad example? So what? The principle stands. And pedants stand (hopefully) satisfied that I have admitted my (small) error. :rolleyes:

As you said yourself:

ambro25 wrote:

Following the immortal words of Yoda the Sage "Do or do not, there is no try"

Also,

ambro25 wrote:

And I drive daily, carefully

How can you drive carefully if you think you are allowed exceed the limit
whilst overtaking ?

Ayashii

Paul (MN) wrote:

you guys are pathetic. the amount of energy you are expending on this.

I travel that road EVERY MORNING.

I don't - this was the first time on that stretch of road in some time

Paul (MN) wrote:

The roadworks are first signposted just before the estuary bridge.. about 2 MILES beforehand.

Yes but are they telling you to slow to 80 or 50? In this case I did slow down but obviously was unsure as to what speed exactly would suffice.

Paul (MN) wrote:

You can see the roadworks for 1 mile beforehand. There are cones everywhere. There are HUGE signs up with updated speed limits. There are heavy duty crash barriers in place.

Not true - check the pics I posted. THe HUGE overhead signs are actually way past where the first speed sign is and also the speed camera.

Paul (MN) wrote:

There are big cranes in the median. Guys in high vis vests all over the place.

Not at 9.20 on a Saturday morning they aren't.

Paul (MN) wrote:

oh and in case you don't remember the roadworks are in the EXACT SPOT where there was a severe accident a few months back which shut the road down.

That was because the NRA penny pinched and decided not to put in barriers - completely different topic.

Victor

Ayashii wrote:

THe HUGE overhead signs are actually way past where the first speed sign is and also the speed camera.

:rolleyes:

ambro25

krinDar wrote:

It is obivious you cannot be arsed to ensure what you saying
is correct.

I could refer you to another thread in the Politics Forum wherein I substantiate all of my points with undeniable official statistics - but can't be arsed...

It is likewise 'obivious' that you yourself cannot be arsed to read my post and exercise a tiny-incy-weeny bit of brainpower to understand that I am posting an opinion about a principle, not true-to-the-letter-down-to-the-comma-incontroversibly-proven-fact.

You, Sir, are therefore this most annoying of creatures: a Boards.ie pedant, who feels the irrepressible need to justify anything an everything posted, lest he has -OMFG forbid!- to admit to be wrong (which I did, BTW - see further below...or above...suit yourself :rolleyes:). In other words... puerile.

krinDar wrote:

ambro25 wrote:

So it's a bad example? So what? The principle stands. And pedants stand (hopefully) satisfied that I have admitted my (small) error.

As you said yourself:

ambro25 wrote:

Following the immortal words of Yoda the Sage "Do or do not, there is no try"

I am somewhat missing your point in respect of these above quotes

krinDar wrote:

How can you drive carefully if you think you are allowed exceed the limit
whilst overtaking ?

Because I'd rather exceed the limit by 5 - 10 mph and minimize the amount of time I have to spend in the oncoming lane to complete the overtaking manoeuvre than rigidly stick to the speed limit whilst in the oncoming lane, presenting less of a potential danger to oncoming drivers with doing so.

I have previously posted that I do on occasions drive above the speed limit. I have no shame whatsoever in admitting that, such occasions are always limited to clear day / dry & empty road / good visibility over a distance appropriate to take any required action (granted, since I've started driving over here, it's been a steep learning curve, given local road manners & awareness - and I drove daily in Paris for 2 years :eek:). I'd say I' m rather candid in admitting clearly and in writing what most any other driver does on a daily basis but keep shtum about it for fear of flaming. And I take full responsibility if and when I get caught, always have (and did get rather a lot of points in the process) and always will (so long as there's no legal way out of it, of course ). Now, what's your problem?

I would deduce, with a modicum of justification, that you do not drive yourself, or that you do not appear to have acquired sufficient driving experience yet, when you're posting such a comment.

I'm loathe to name-call, but by Gum & by Eck am I tempted...

Now, to the OP - second Paul(MN) & Chief---. Whether speed limits in road work zones are arbitrary, enforced, fairly or unfairly, etc, etc. is wholly irrelevant. I believe the point is that you should not be speeding or even, for that matter, drive at the 'conventional' speed limit, absence of traffic notwithstanding, in road traffic zones, for the very simple (common sense) reason that you just don't know if there isn't a great 'step' in the road where the tarmac's been cut, or cones strewn about by a passing lorry during the night, etc, etc. There's all manner of unpredictable dangers lurking about in a roadworks zone, without even contemplating workmen and moving machinery, whether they're on-site or not.

krinDar

ambro25 wrote:

You, Sir, are therefore this most annoying of creatures: a Boards.ie pedant,

On all too many occasions I have seen people supply vastly incorrect
information and some poor mug accept it as truth - this was one such
occasion. If I am a pedant for correcting something as simple as
that then so be it.

ambro25 wrote:

I have previously posted that I do on occasions drive above the speed limit.
....
Now, what's your problem?

My problem is that you originally suggested that the RTA allowed you
to exceed the speed limit to overtake, even if it was your opinion it you
were obiviously basing it on something. You were wrong and have
admitted to being wrong, well done - but what else are you wrong about ?
Perhaps you think you are allowed by law to drive on the right on the fifth
Friday of February ?

But this has gone way off topic.

delly

[rant]

I have to get something else off my chest regarding these roadworks which is a bit off topic.

The plans for this interchange were around before this section of the M1 was completed a couple of years back. So why oh why couldn't it have been done then instead of wasting more money to have it sone subsequent to the main roadworks finishing?

The same goes for the M50, they have been talking about putting the third lane in for years and have said that it'll be done eventually, so why couldn't they have put it in while completing the sections past the Tallaght junction, instead of tearing it all up again later.

[/end of rant]

Paul (MN)

Ayashii,

"I don't - this was the first time on that stretch of road in some time"
Doesn't make a difference. I checked this AM and there are signs saying "Roadworks, 2000m" so you had plenty of notice!


"Yes but are they telling you to slow to 80 or 50? In this case I did slow down but obviously was unsure as to what speed exactly would suffice."
It was completely obvious to me that the large 5foot x 5foot sign on each side of the motorway said 80kph!

"Not true - check the pics I posted. THe HUGE overhead signs are actually way past where the first speed sign is and also the speed camera."
You are correct on their positioning. However, you can see them from a mile off and, if you are familiar with the road, and you see stuff flashing on them, and big roadworks signs 2000m before them, then you can be pretty sure that there is something up ahead requiring you to slow down.


"Not at 9.20 on a Saturday morning they aren't."
Who gives a fluck! You can still see everything else!

"That was because the NRA penny pinched and decided not to put in barriers - completely different topic."
Yes but this is just like the bus crash in Navan. It's onyl after 5 kids die that there is REAL pressure to move on seatbelts etc.
If a workmand were to be hit by somebody doing 120pkh in a 50pkh roadwork zone there might be similar outcry, some of which would be "why don't we put speed traps there to catch these people"!