Sneaky speedcheck on M1 today

Ayashii

I think I might have clocked up my first 2 penalty points this morning southbound on the m1....

Just before the airport exit they are doing some lane work and the inner lane uses the hard shoulder for a couple of hundred metres and then returns to the original lane. They have reduced the speed limit from 120kph to 60(?) for that stretch and the white van was waiting with its camera out the rear window.

Does anyone know the legality of this situation in terms of whether or not the speed limit reduction would be set by the contruction company or via a bye law of Fingal Co Co etc. The sneakiness of the speed trap is really what astounded me as there are no speed reduction signs prior to the roadworks only a sign indicating that there is road works ahead.

Dingatron

Bit sneaky alright. I'd say it's legal or why else would they bother being there. Funny thing is you don't see to many of them about during 9-5 rush hour traffic on the M1.

lanno

They were in the same spot last sat morning

peasant

Just think for a minute: Why would they reduce the speed in the first place?
Because you have to change lanes?
Because there are cones standing in the middle of the road?
Because there are people working just inches from the cars whizzing past?

Correct ...all of the above!

Doing the full 120 is just too dangerous, so they make you drive slow. And for those who don't get the point by themselves ...they dole out points.

Fair enough in my opinion and not "sneaky" at all

Victor

Ayashii wrote:

They have reduced the speed limit from 120kph to 60(?) for that stretch

The sneakiness of the speed trap is really what astounded me as there are no speed reduction signs prior to the roadworks only a sign indicating that there is road works ahead.

So how did you know it was 60 or any other figure?

formatman

move this to another thread if it not relevant but the was a speed trap up on the bridge near the shell garage ( the one that was robbed) today on the N11 near kilmac.. Speed cop with nothing better to do , just inside the drop from 100 to 60 etc

DubTony

formatman wrote:

move this to another thread if it not relevant but the was a speed trap up on the bridge near the shell garage ( the one that was robbed) today on the N11 near kilmac.. Speed cop with nothing better to do , just inside the drop from 100 to 60 etc

That's the section of the N11 where you're supposed to slam on your brakes to get down to 60k. Fine if you're the only car on the road. Shame the Gardai do this. Makes the people cynical and causes feelings of contempt. We have enough problems with rules and regulations without this kind of carry on

Tony

Dub13

formatman wrote:

Speed cop with nothing better to do

He was doing his Job.... :rolleyes:

John R

DubTony wrote:

That's the section of the N11 where you're supposed to slam on your brakes to get down to 60k. Fine if you're the only car on the road. Shame the Gardai do this. Makes the people cynical and causes feelings of contempt. We have enough problems with rules and regulations without this kind of carry on

Tony

It's a regular location for speed traps, most regular drivers do slow down because they know the chances of a trap are high.

It is absolutely astounding that there is a lower limit through there now with a Dual Carriageway, footbridge and overpass for the side road.

Alun

John R wrote:

It's a regular location for speed traps, most regular drivers do slow down because they know the chances of a trap are high.

It is absolutely astounding that there is a lower limit through there now with a Dual Carriageway, footbridge and overpass for the side road.

It's kind of justified on the southbound section because of the completely hair-brained "design", if that's the word, of the junction for the turn off to Glendalough, where cars coming out of the Shell garage are trying to merge onto the N11 from the off-ramp for that junction. Pure stupidity.

On the other side, cars joining from Kilmacanogue have plenty of room to accelerate up to speed to join, so, no excuse as far as I can see. There is a bus stop by the garage on that side, and the layout of the first part ofthe slip road is a bit chicane-like as a consequence, but the slip road is plenty long enough.

formatman

it was on the northbound side...bastards

what they need is a truck to veer off at the wrong moment , make them rethink their stupid policies .....if you want make an omlette you gotta break some eggs

Mick Jockson

What you need, is for a truck not to veer, but to drive straight at the **** hiding behind the bush, and mow squad car down and give him a wee scare. heh.

Or that sniper freak that was on the M50, pity them weridos dont target the speed gun cops.

BrianD

Ina ll fairness, is not waht the cops should be doing? Random speed traps. Having that the council/contractos should be putting up adequate warning signs.

Ayashii

Went along today (well it is Sunday ) to have another look and you might be able to see from the pics that there in fact 2 signs.... the first one at the curve in the road saying that the speed is 80kmph and another couple of hundred metres later saying its further reduced to 50kmph. The guards were positioned just past the 50kmph sign.

formatman

theres a very sniper look to those photos ! (-:

BrianD3

In roadwork situations like this it'd be far better if the cops did a few high visibility "manned" speed checks rather than just stick a Gatso van in the hard shoulder for 1 day or whatever. Speeding tickets from the Gatso may take a month or so to arrive by which time the roadworks may have finished. Most drivers are oblivious to the presence of Gatso vans until the ticket arrives in the post. Whereas a high vis speed trap will be seen by everyone who passes it, even those who aren't speeding on that particular day

I'd say anyone obeying the 50 km/h limit at those M1 roadworks will be beeped, flashed, ridiculed and other drivers wil try to bully them into speeding up. This happens on the N4 roadworks near Mullingar which I drive on sometimes. I stick to the 60 km/h limit but I always get some tosser driving 1 foot from my rear bumper trying to bully me into speeding up. A few high vis checkpoints would make life a lot easier for those who actually obey the limit as it might slow the tailgating tossers down.

formatman

solution for tailgaters ...just trip that brake and watch for the solied trousers look in the rear view mirror

Squirrel

That's a bit dangerous aswell, turn on your headlights, the red lights come on on the rear, than enjoy the soiled pants look without having some asshole nearly ram you

Dub13

Or if he/she is very close spray water on you windscreen if they are very close it will hit there windscreen aswell.

formatman

with practice you can just touch the brake enough to switch on the lights without braking itself

Our man in Havana

Has anyone actually checked to see if these temp limits are properly constituted? Do they have a valid order as in the RTA 2004?

saobh_ie

Or if being threatened in such a manner, while in a car where you can't really signal them so you could further reduce your speed in the interests of safety. If he's on your bumper and you brake suddenly he's going to hit you at 50km/h. Better you switch on your hazard lights, put a light pressure on your foot brake to activate the brake lights and then allow engine braking to bring you down to 20km/h then knock off the hazard lights and continue at that speed until he backs off, which he’ll have to if he’s going to try and over take.

Also, in the vicinity of roadworks or heavy traffic this one is impossible, but you can in general consider surrendering your position. Yes he’s an asshole and he’ll think he can do it again and again if people keep getting out of his way but your driving for yourself, its not your job to teach him how to drive. Where it suits you of course. As soon as somebody gets uncomfortably close start dropping speed, remain in a command position, that forces them to go fully onto the other side of the road if they mean to over take, and then when you see a nice safe place to get out of their way do so. Although I don't drive a car personally.

Although, you are supposed to be travelling at the speed limit posted as you reach the sign. You’re not supposed to drive past it at 80km/h, slam on the brakes and let them off at 50km/h. In good time on your approach to the sign you are to do a rear observation and then gradually slow down. If somebody were tail gating you at that point you would have to allow for that and take longer to slow down that you usually would, maybe even three times as much time. How far past the sign was the GATSO van?

Although if absolutly everybody went through a GATSO like NASCAR drivers nose to tail at 200km/h nobody except for the very last car would get a ticket because the camera wouldn't get an angle. Of course that would be stupid above all else. Funny though...

Bond has a good point. Ask for the schedule of speed limits on that road on that date. I think you ask the council, in all likley hood though the council would have offically changed the speed limit when they approved the works. Although the speed limit was there for a good and legimate reason and should have been observed.

Victor

Dub13 wrote:

Or if he/she is very close spray water on you windscreen if they are very close it will hit there windscreen aswell.

Not smart. The last thing you want at speed is a startled driver.

Gerry

No, what you do is boot it a bit, but slam the brake on for a fraction of a second with your left foot. The car will pitch a fair bit, but not really slow down, gets rid of the tailgaters every time

coolhandluke

Ayashii wrote:

Went along today (well it is Sunday ) to have another look and you might be able to see from the pics that there in fact 2 signs.... the first one at the curve in the road saying that the speed is 80kmph and another couple of hundred metres later saying its further reduced to 50kmph. The guards were positioned just past the 50kmph sign.

Yea,i had thought that myself,was goin to check it out in the morning.The gatso van was in the hard shoulder in the 80kmph zone not the 50kmph(there is no hard shoulder in the 50kmph),i had seen it way off and was only doing 80kmph meself.Basically if you were doing 80kmph or under your grand !.

BrianD

Bond-007 wrote:

Has anyone actually checked to see if these temp limits are properly constituted? Do they have a valid order as in the RTA 2004?

Does it really matter? There is roadworks and the area has been signed. It's up to a driver to observe these and modify his speed accordingly. In my view, it's a tad Irish to turn around and start trying to look for legal technicalities when it is a fair cop. The logical conclusion from your arguement is that if there is no valid order then it is OK to speed through the works at 120KPH. Where has common sense gone to??

Our man in Havana

It does matter if the cops are acting illeagaly in a revenue generating mode. But i do not condone barrelling thru at 120 km/h, they should go thru at a reasonable safe speed.

The cops should not be acting in an intimidating manner.

jesus_thats_gre

Bond-007 wrote:

Has anyone actually checked to see if these temp limits are properly constituted? Do they have a valid order as in the RTA 2004?

I was actually talking to a Garda friend last week from a nearby district..

He reckons its bull**** (his words). When they erect those speed signs they are never ok'd properly by the local CoCo's and thus are tehnically only a guideline, i.e. you cannot be done for exceeding them..

If in fact they have been properly constituted, you are obviously ****ed

Ayashii

As was mentioned and as I think back on this its very possible that the van was indeed just past the initial 80kmph sign..... its hard to remember exactly because at the time your annoyance impacts memories of the event and I didn't want to circle back and go through that road again

From the RTA section 4.3 it says that Road Works Speed Limit Orders

County and city Managers are empowered by the 2004 Act to make Orders for the purposes of applying speed limits at road works. The Order cannot be for a period of more than 12 months.

Where a manager proposes to make a Road Works Speed Limit Order, the manager must notify the Commissioner of An Garda Síochána of the proposal to make the Order and must consider any representations made by the Commissioner. If the proposed Order is in respect of a national road or a motorway, the consent of the National Roads Authority must be obtained. When an Order has been made the manager must publish a notice in at least one newspaper circulating in the area giving details of the location where the Order will have effect, the period for which it will have effect and the speed limit that is being applied through the Order.

BrianD

Bond-007 wrote:

It does matter if the cops are acting illeagaly in a revenue generating mode. But i do not condone barrelling thru at 120 km/h, they should go thru at a reasonable safe speed.

The cops should not be acting in an intimidating manner.

No actually it does not matter. The Garda are acting in a perfectly legitimate manner and in a manner that you and any sensible and responsible motorist would expect them to do - random speedcheck in an area where road works are taking place.

Furthermore, whether or not there is a valid order in place is secondary to your civic responsibility as a road user in obeying a speed limits in such a area for the safety of other motorists and workers in that zone. Try to think of others outside of your metal shell. There should be no requirement for speed limit orders. The only requirement should be clear and adequate signage.

Finally, it's time to drop this revenue generating nonsense. It is probably the lamest arguement I have heard from people who are unable or to careless to regulate their speed while driving. The revenue generated from speed traps is pretty insignificant in the bigger picture though I do think that there is a problem with these league tables that apparently exist. What we need to see is Gardai carrying out random speed traps anywhere and everywhere (as opposed to the spots we all know). Will you be calling for those?

How exactly are the cops acting in an intimidating manner???

edmund_f

Revenue generation, while it may be incorrect, would be a obivious reason for them to do it. Other options would be statistic collection, numbers. If the cops were doing 'random' speed checks, then i should see them equally on all types of roads and at all times. I do not, therefore they are not random, being human i cannot help but wonder what their motivations are.

What would you suggest?

If there are any cops on here, feel free to correct and enlighten us all.