Aggressive tendencies

seamus

Kell wrote:

Anyone any notions as to why this happens? I thought our "animal sense" response to panic/fear was to fight or flight. *Where did "ho hum. I think I will lie down and take it" come from?

Notions anyone?

To a certain degree, while "fight or flight" is an hormonal response, I think your actual physical response is dependent on experience. Back when we were in rags and hunting deer with sticks, those who were attacked either learned how to respond or died. For most of our history, we've been much more violent than we are now. People knew how to react to violence - it was taught to them from a young age.
While instinct and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive, our intelligence allows us a certain amount of control over our instinct. Those of us not "in tune" with our instincts will react to them less, and those of us without experience will simply falter and freeze when confronted with danger.

My 2c

Belladonna

aphex&#8482 wrote:

I once hard of some daughter of a relation who was dragged along the road in town one day by a total stranger (weirdo), despite her shouting and screaming, nobody did anything.

That's really sad (and scary!) I think it comes down to shock. We all like to think that we will react to situations but things that catch us off guard tend to make us freeze up sometimes.
I read an article recently that said loads of people die in plane crashes not because of the crash itself, but the fire afterwards. While some people kept their wits about them and ecscaped, they witnessed others just sitting there staring, not able to process in their minds what to do next. Maybe random street violence is the same thing.
I think topics like this are great because they get us thinking and the better prepared we are the faster we can react if we ever need to.

Kell

seamus wrote:

While instinct and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive, our intelligence allows us a certain amount of control over our instinct. Those of us not "in tune" with our instincts will react to them less,

Theres a distinct possibility that might suggest that controlling the instinct is the less intelligent thing to do. I wonder why certain types of people are in "tune" with instinct and the majority are quite discordant.

As a slight aside, perhaps our "wrap em in cotton wool" first world attitude is actually doing us more harm than good. I hear a lot of primary school kids arnt allowed run inside school grounds let alone smack some other idiot child.

It is a pity that our PC anal stance on all things are kinda eroding our survival instinct. Maybe if we didnt live in such a PC world, we would have more toned instincts and random street violence wouldnt be stacked so much in favour of the assailant.

Belladonna wrote:

I think topics like this are great because they get us thinking

Why thank you. :rolleyes:

K-

seamus

Kell wrote:

As a slight aside, perhaps our "wrap em in cotton wool" first world attitude is actually doing us more harm than good. I hear a lot of primary school kids arnt allowed run inside school grounds let alone smack some other idiot child.

It is a pity that our PC anal stance on all things are kinda eroding our survival instinct. Maybe if we didnt live in such a PC world, we would have more toned instincts and random street violence wouldnt be stacked so much in favour of the assailant.

I'd agree completely. Two kids having a fight in the playground now is treated as a serious matter, brought up to the principal, etc, but in all fairness it's part of growing up. I'd be more worried about a child who has never been in a fight tbh.

Someone mentioned there about TV violence. I think it's having the opposite effect (on most people) than is usually paraded about. While the effect is a desensitising, it's desensitising people by making them think that the violence is not real. When we watch TV, we suspend our disbelief, but emerge on the other side, well aware that what we saw wasn't real. The more you see it, the less real you think it is. So when you see it on the street, you're so shocked that you either think it's not real, or you just don't know how to react.

samurai kebab

Trojan wrote:

I find looking them in the eye and nodding hello results in a respectful nod back. Mind you, the crew around D5 are possibly not as battlehardened as in some other areas.

depends wer in d5,the amount of trouble i seen in harmonstown in my life(i have friends there and used 2 walk to and from the dart station every day from the irish primary school) and i dont know if kilbarracks d5 or 13 theres still always loads of them in raheny(which i'm guessing your talking about)

McGinty

Brilliant thread, and I have loads to say. When I was a kid I was bullied continously from seven until fourteen, even though I went to about four different schools in two different countries. I gave off the fear/victim vibe, I beleive that is a combination of body language, pheromones and a nervous energy (we ususally call it vibes). The consequence was I was always picked on, however when I was fourteen this girl who always bullied me, and at the time I was so terrified of her, pushed me too far (thank God) one day, she busted my lip and I went ape ****, I grabbed handfuls of her hair, whilst her sister was doing her tak won do on me, and another girl tried to pull me away, I knocked all three of them down, I was and still am a passive person, I hate fighting and I hate violence, however I do have an aggressive streak, and since I was bullied and that fight I have not been picked on physically since. I have been threatnened on occasion, when I was a postwoman delivering in some very rough estates in England, and but I didn't panic and acted aggressive back, I'm a woman, and this was a man who threatened me, but I didn't feel afraid at that time, only afterwards. When my safety is threatened, I feel vicious and I think people sense this. I don't expect or look for trouble but I do a mental check if I'm an unsafe area, that is I consider if I am to be threatened, what will I do, so I have some idea of what to do. I believe that some people are picked on because they are fearful, and this shows through their stance, movements, energy and smell. For those who wish to avoid a fight, a good tip (although a bit nuts) is to talk to yourself and act insane, most people are too unsure of mad people.

Kell, your point about our pc world is a good one, I agree that too many children are wrapped up in cotton wool, and when my son has a fight I let him deal with it to a certain degree (in honesty though it kills me, but I know its for his greater good and his strategy for avoiding trouble is using his humour, he clowns around), some children are too inured from the gritty reality of life on the streets, so by the time they are young adults they cannot cope. Lastly I've only seen two people attacked and each time I've intervened, some people may say its nuts but conscience could not allow me to walk away. The biggest problem in society today is the fear of fear itself, we are being made more fearful, and the way I look at it is if I'm going to be killed doing a,b, c or d, then sod it, so be it, but it won't prevent me from doing what I wish to do. Maybe that is something to do with your inital question, saying **** it to the fear. I do know people who are very fearful of life and sadly it seems things tend to happen to them. My mother has a great saying, don't trouble trouble unless trouble troubles you (a bit wordy but a good saying).

Redleslie2

Kell wrote:

Same for me- but why is it in the majority of cases, the victim tends not to fight back.

Could be that they've gone into shock, and the body cannot physically respond to the assault, or because that in Irish society people are generally afraid to stand up for themselves and allow others to push them around, whether it's on the streets or in the workplace, perhaps because they fear that the consequences of resistance will make things worse. A constant theme that pops up in Irish literature of the last 200 years is the deferential attitude to power and authority. My question would be, why do people feel the urge to behave aggressively to others at all.

Sangre

McGinty wrote:

I have been threatnened on occasion, when I was a postwoman delivering in some very rough estates in England, and but I didn't panic and acted aggressive back, I'm a woman, and this was a man who threatened me, but I didn't feel afraid at that time, only afterwards.

Lastly I've only seen two people attacked and each time I've intervened, some people may say its nuts but conscience could not allow me to walk away.

You're much, much likely to be attacked as a women. You should be less afraid really.

Its more dangerous being a man in Dublin than being female, more assaults etc.,
But I guess the ultimate fear of rape warps that notion.

Blub2k4

I have theories on this myself, due to a colourful past mixing with a lot of dangerous and dodgy characters. I was a hard drug addict in a former life so I mixed with some very unsavoury characters at times and a lot of them are dead now, through misadventure or murder.
Anyway to the point, I find it is the way you carry yourself and your own awareness of danger and recognition of danger at an early enough stage.
The Clanbrassil St. incident is easily avoided, by spotting the group and with no commotion and preferably without being noticed crossing the street and carrying on with your business as if you have not noticed the group, the key here is that a group is more dangerous for lots of reasons and you most definitely dont want to make eye contact with a member of a group, it may be the alpha and he wont like you eyeballing him and you have given him an opportunity , and a reason in his eyes, to challenge you. Under no circumstances allow the challenge to take place then you have lost as a singleton against the group.
If you are just walking through town it is about eyecontact with the dodgy stranger in the crowd, I was out at dunlaoghaire during the summer and was at the street festival they had, I spotted someone casing me at one point to be pickpocketed and stopped and stared at him for a bit and he slipped away sheepishly, thing is that I was aware.
If you recognise the threat from the lone person they back off as they want to do things stealthily most of the time with the least problems.
My black leather jacket used be my city armour as I called it, it kept the dodgy people away by making me dodgy I suppose.

Like I say I think it is demeanour and awareness, I dont look that threatening unless I am wearing a t-shirt and you find tattoos threatening but they are only a recent addition and I dont notice people are any different because of them, I think it is just that I dont look like I want to be picked on, the person who tries may come out worse than I would, mainly because I look like I would defend myself. If someone threatened me with a syringe, I'd ask them if there was gear in there too, cos I used to like it, I'd also ask him if he had just taken some for the pain that he was about to experience when the needle was stuffed down his throat....would that be disarming enough

stevenmu

I think it's important to realise that there's a variety of different types of attacks, triggered by a variety of causes. There's no one-size-fits-all trigger for an attack, or way to avoid one. For e.g. a mugger will attack for money, not for the fight itself, and therefore go for smaller and/or less confident looking people. Scumbags may attack someone to show off to their mates or a kind of alpha-male reason, they'd tend to go for someone bigger than themselves. Other times people might be attacked because they look out of place, being a different race, or just wearing a suit and tie in a 'disadvantaged area'. Sometimes, like with 'happy-slapping' it seems to be more boredom than anything else, altough I don't know how this actually leads to violence, when I was young and bored I never just went out and attacked someone.

Redleslie2

Hmm, there does seem to be an assumption that violence is only, or at least mainly, perpetrated by those nasty tracksuit clad brutes from council flats but I've seen plenty of 'normal' middle class lads beating the crap out of each other, one of the perks of living in my former flat near Harcourt St. Personally, I've only had bother from culchie yuppie types a couple of times, my girlfriend's Italian so the idiots assume I am too, and this seems to be justification enough for a certain breed of scum to get a bit overexcited. I think a lot of violence stems from frustration, crappy unfullfilling job, or no job, problems with parents, lack of sex, and the like.

sobriquet

stevenmu wrote:

I think it's important to realise that there's a variety of different types of attacks, triggered by a variety of causes. There's no one-size-fits-all trigger for an attack, or way to avoid one.

This is a very good point. My sisters' fiance is a big guy, well over 6ft, built like a sh1t brickhouse, as are his brothers. They're all very sound lads who keep themselves to themselves, but for some reason certain people will decide to have a go because they're big guys, if they're in a nightclub say. Lads will come up saying, "I heard you were saying things about me." Very strange phenomenon, and I can't imagine what encourages someone to pick on big guys for the sake of it - must be some kind of alpha-male assertiveness crap.

Victor

I wonder, given the cigarette analogy, where do smokers keep their cigarettes compared to their money?

Do "buds" ask women "ya got a light / fag?"

Redleslie2

Victor wrote:

I wonder, given the cigarette analogy, where do smokers keep their cigarettes compared to their money?

Do "buds" ask women "ya got a light / fag?"

Wallet or gold August Hollming cigarette case of course.

Victor

Presumably if you keep your cigarettes in your left pocket, you keep your wallet in you right pocket, etc.