City West €250+25 Freezeout May27/28

ocallagh

Lads, I think you are all over reacting slightly. The only thing that can really be criticised is that the change in blind structure wasn't announced. The actual changing of it, although a bit inconvenient, was alot fairer than turning people away because of the unexpectedly large turnout. Chopping the blinds the next day was decided upon after a unanimous request from everybody playing. There are alot of tournament directors who would turn down this request, but the pokerevents guys were decent enough to listen to the players. So I don't know what you're all complaining about, you should be grateful that people are getting their acts together to organise these events at all.

Daithio

BTW, That last reply by ocallagh was actually written by me, Niall's brother, he hadn't logged off of boards on my computer.

MadsL

Does he agree with you?

Shortstack

ocallagh wrote:

Lads, I think you are all over reacting slightly. The only thing that can really be criticised is that the change in blind structure wasn't announced. The actual changing of it, although a bit inconvenient, was alot fairer than turning people away because of the unexpectedly large turnout. Chopping the blinds the next day was decided upon after a unanimous request from everybody playing. There are alot of tournament directors who would turn down this request, but the pokerevents guys were decent enough to listen to the players. So I don't know what you're all complaining about, you should be grateful that people are getting their acts together to organise these events at all.

That was all I did criticise really. It was a great atmosphere and the set up was great. It is good that events are being organised.I know they wanted to do their best to accomadate all the people who turned up but I just felt it was unnecessary to change the structure so severely and also to not announce the fact. Maybe using Nicky's comment and comparing it to the poker was extreme but from all the people I talked to on the night it seemed appropriate. It is also probably made more extreme by Pokerevents response to other criticism's in the past from members of the forum, this definately contributed to some of my more sarcastic comments. I will be at the next event in Dublin and will make sure I come back for the second day either playing or reporting as Fintan suggests.
Without wanting to be cynical though, I would have imagined they would have had no choice but to bring the blinds back on the second day as it would have descended into farce.
I am all for more events being run, I have just have many years of experience in customer service and the worst thing you can do to your customers is mislead them or not tell them about changes.

Fatboydim

Reducing blinds for the final table or final day is actually quite common. At least I've seen it done in the US and Caribbean... [Wish it had been done in Cork ] I also think it's a little unfair to compare the Poker Events set up to those tournaments held in The Fitz, Merrion and Cavendish as these places are dedicated buildings – And indeed there were a number of complaints about the way the Irish Open was run this year - And that was before it was played! [Some didn’t like the break with tradition of it being played in the City West.] Then of course complaints were made once it was running… And there is no doubt that most of the things that went wrong with that tourney were attributable to the change of venue. That’s not a criticism by the way, but just to point out that problems occur and Tournament Organisers and players alike have to adapt. That’s part and parcel of the growth of poker . There’s more players, bigger prize pools, more fish, more lunatics, more bad beats – You can’t expect everything to go right all the time any more than you can eliminate Aces being cracked by 85 coz it’s suited syndrome. – I think overall Poker Events do a very good job and I’ve always found Fintan ready willing and able to answer any questions I’ve put to him. The difference may be that I do it in an email or face to face and not on the boards – So I think it’s a little unfair when he gets attacked personally and publicly. And I don’t blame him if he gets a little tetchy with some people because of it. After all most people don’t have the rights and wrongs of their jobs discussed on the internet. “Sean… That wall you built on main street it’s a bit ****e isn’t it?” “I bought three chops from Spotty Brian in Supervalu and he didn’t smile when he handed them over to me” etc etc. You get the idea - Personally I know what it’s like too, I can read boards everyday of the week criticising projects I have worked on and it’s often done by people who don’t have a clue about the facts surrounding the perceived fault. – Sensible discussion around the points raised will I’m sure lead to solutions. So here’s one from me - Maybe light weight plastic green lampshades instead of glass ones for the lights?

BigDragon

Fatboydim wrote:

........I’ve always found Fintan ready willing and able to answer any questions I’ve put to him. The difference may be that I do it in an email or face to face and not on the boards – So I think it’s a little unfair when he gets attacked personally and publicly. And I don’t blame him if he gets a little tetchy with some people because of it. After all most people don’t have the rights and wrongs of their jobs discussed on the internet......................... Sensible discussion around the points raised will I’m sure lead to solutions. ........................:)

1. Look at who started this post (..on Boards...)
2. What part of this discussion, on a Poker discussion forum, is not sensible. There have been no personal attacks. There has been a critique of the event that include good and bad points.
3. The point about the blinds was made as it contradicted the advertised structure. The Irish Open structure was sh1te but it was advertised pre-event and people chose to play knowing this i.e. informed choice.
4. IPT were as late as Thursday night quoting 230 runners to me in person. If this was the reason for changing the blind structure then it is easy to publish the blind structure on the registration desk or put flyers on the tables.

Fair criticism is still fair. Fintan pimps his events and would be a fool not to listen to his customers. As you said he and his team do listen. He will hopefully listen to the criticism (a couple of things in a major event) to make the event better and bigger.

That's all Irish poker players want - the holy grail of a well run tournament with a reasonable buy-in, long levels, plenty of play, in a good environment and good dealers.

IPT are the closest at the moment to achieving this. As Shortsack pointed out. The customer is king. I believe that the customer is not just the poker elite but the likes of you and me. These guys dont turn out for 20 runner events. They want big fields of Ax merchants to bump the prize fund.

The opinion of a customer.

SavageBeat

lenny_leonard wrote:

Good result, Savagebeat. I was acting the railbird 'til about 4oc yesterday; which table were you on: Joe O'Neills', or Pat Crowes'?

I was at Joe' The show' O'Neill's table. He was actually first to my left. Funny guy. Even though I didn't get great cards, Joe makes you forget all about it
I was knocked when I was short stacked and most of my chips were in on the BB. Of course the SB raised me all in which I didn't mind when I saw that I had A9s against his 84o. I was knocked out when a 4 hit on the flop. Talk about UL.
I was tempted to go in earlier when I was UTG and had J9s, when I did have some chips, about 45k. I knew I had to start making some moves but felt it was the wrong time. But in hindsight cause I didn't get any cards I wish I did.

Once again I would like to thank Fintan and Donal and crew for the well run event. I will be at the Westwood this wednesday to try my luck again. :cool:

Marq

It is inherently unfair to reduce the blinds at any point in a tournament. By all means, freeze the blinds at a certain point, or agree only to raise them or start the clock again upon a player being knocked out, but reducing them ruins the integrity of a competition. The reason is this:

Competitors play a certain way because of the size of their stack in relation to the blinds and because the value of chips in the tournament is constantly being reduced because of the rising blinds. For example, a player with 4 big blinds left, knowing that the blinds will rise again shortly, is more likely to go all-in than one with 4 big blinds who knows the blinds are frozen. The player is knocked out partly because to survive in this tournament with the rising blinds he must attempt to stay ahead of them.

Then he's knocked out, and everyone else in the tournament can now enjoy lower blinds than he did with more chips in the average stack. The person who has just gone out of the tournament because of the pressure of the blinds now sees the remaining players reduce that pressure now that he is gone. This is unfair.

General, yes, but obvious and logical.

Having to reduce the blinds to allow for play at the final table is proof that the structure in and of itself was flawed up until that point.

Hitman Actual

Fintan, I was there both days (rail-bird on day 2) and I will say that it did seem to be a very good second day (apart from the supporters of 'hilo', who were a bit over-exuberant when he got lucky a few times to stay in the tournament!). Like I said, I really felt that the structure was too harsh after the first three levels, and took a huge amount of play out of the game. Reducing the field down to 30 players from 230 in one night is crazy, imo; relaxing the structure so that you have 60/70 players on day 2 shouldn't add much extra time to the game.

I really hope that you respect, and take on board, the views given by the Dublin casino regulars on this forum. A lot of people here play 3/4 live tournaments a week, and know what to expect from any game, more so than less experienced players from around the country. And the view that I've heard so far from a lot of players is that the structure was too tight.

From what I can see, you're genuinely trying to run a top-class tournament, but if you're satisfied with the way the blind/ante structure changed the skill level of the game, then you're seriously undermining your objectives and your implied knowledge of how tournaments shold be run. At the end of the day, the more skillful players should win out, not the players who are lucky enough to win their pre-flop all-in coin tosses. But thats what the game deteriorated to after the first three levels.

I do want to play in these games again... It was great to sit at the same table as Paul Lecky, and have the chance to play against Ivan Donaghy, Mick McClosky and some of the other names in the Irish scene, but I can do that every month in the Fitz 270 game. Ironically, the structure is better in that game than what I saw Friday night. (Fair enough, I know there's only half the amount of players in that game, but they do have to finish up in a single night).

Derek Murray.

Pokerevents

Thanks for that Derek. I appreciate what you are saying. The time factor is a major hinderence for a large field. 241players is the biggest tournament I've seen in Ireland and reducing it thirty in 8 hours is what we set out to do, so I was satisfied with first day when this was achieved especially with the feed back I got from players regarding the structure, many I spoke to were very complimentary. Day 2 was obviously much better with antes brought back and even when final table was produced donal made it a 1 hour clock which really made for good action. Bringing the clock back for final tables is done worldwide. U.k open last year in Luton. E.P.T and W.P.T events have also done it. I really dont see anything wrong with it(especially if it's me at the table) and if I got knocked out of a event with a clock that has being later brought back I certainly would nt complain.
I think a three day event is on the cards.
day1 250runners. day2.120. day3.27
I will talk to donal about the connacht cup regarding blind levels and try and get it more accurate for that event.

NickyOD

Marq wrote:

It is inherently unfair to reduce the blinds at any point in a tournament

That was one thing I mentioned after the Galway event. I went out on the Final day bubble in Galway not knowing that the blinds were going to be taken back 2 levels on the final day. I pushed in the SB with a bad hand with just 7BBs left. Had I known the structure would change I would have held on.

There were 189 runners in Cork and the 150/300 level was included (unlike Galway and Dublin) No reduction in Blinds on the second day either. I know the tournament directors can reserve the right to change the structure but changing it to the point where the origianally posted structure is almost unrecognisable isn't very fair.

N.

Hectorjelly

Fatboydim wrote:

Reducing blinds for the final table.....

Are you the Fatboydim from the hendon mob forum? I recognise the paragraph lengths!

Benglian

SavageBeat wrote:

I was at Joe' The show' O'Neill's table. He was actually first to my left. Funny guy. Even though I didn't get great cards, Joe makes you forget all about it :)QUOTE]

No you weren't. I was. The Guy in a very dodgy cowboy hat, so I wasn't invisible...

And i read criticism of the general level of competance of the dealers, but can I hear it for the girl who was at our table? (One of the proper poker ones). An Ausralian? I think. She was VERY good. In control the whole time and VERY fast. Prompting everyone for their turn etc. Very much appreciated. Made Joe O'Neil even more amusing with her ready quips....top notch.

Clone her.

NickyOD

Benglian wrote:

SavageBeat wrote:

Clone her.

Agreed. But I think she was then moved to a STT. And the dealer in my STT was one of the better one's too. Probably should have kep them dealing in the tourney.

Fatboydim

Yes I am Hector LOL So you know what an ugly bugger I am too and I ramble and have no idea what I'm talking about ever.

A three day event is a great idea...

And Big Dragon - I think the "personal attack" on Fintan was actually on someone's blog rather than on the Boards - but it was posted as a link - It was a mildly sarcastic comment - Of course anyone can write what they want on their blog. On the whole I've agreed with much that has been said on here and I also want to see better tournaments... It's why I'm prepared to drive down from Mayo so often to play in the Fitz and the Merrion and drive back the same night. Also why I appreciate the Galway games as if you think the Galway players are loose aggresive you should try the mob from Castlebar. And like Nicky I was in a very good position in Galway when I pushed all in with AQ because I didn't know that blinds would be reduced for day two, and felt I had to return the next day with a workable stack or not at all. At that time I had more chips than half the players that did make it to the second day. It's all a learning curve.... and having attended early Poker Events Tourneys I can already see changes being implemented...