Science @ TCD

Gazza22

Hey all, thinking of going for Science at Trinity. Any science students here? Is the course good? Difficult? Could you give me the low-down on it from a student point of view and basically is it worth going for?
Tanx...

Agent Smith

Pet or Educat would be the people to talk to, Educat is Our Education officer ( a paid Job that consists of him snorting coke all day and molesting The Huge piles of money he has scamed the su of....*


Pet is a science Student. there you go....


if you want to Know about student Life in trinity in Genreal.....









* this may or may not be true

Gazza22

thanks man for the info...

Agent Smith

I see you would have liked to do medicine, have you looked into the Trinity Access Program, its for poeple who would not have got the Points for A course. altho, afaik, i think its mainly for people who come from a low income family


need any more Info?

Gazza22

Yeah my school is actually a TAP school, but you are right, it's only for people from a low income family and it was ridiculously low, i couldn't qualify for the points reduction

ApeXaviour

I'm also a science student.
It's really really good..

You start off with 300 other students picking 3 of subjects out of 5:
Physics
Chemistry
Maths
Biology
Geology/Geography

It's similar in second year.. biology splits in two as does geology/geography.
In third year you specialise into one of (8 or 9) degree courses.. You can look them up on the site. I chose physics and that is what I will get my bachelors in. Each sci dept is quite up there in as far as international recognition, mostly the best in the country. The atmosphere is good. It's challenging at times but not overly so. Well worth it. You have many chances to pass exams with resits and whatnot. The dropout rate is not nearly as high as UCD sci.
If you do chose here you'll make some lifelong friends and have some memorable experience with great nites out. Sci students, like engineering students, know how to party.. Our respective timetables are tough when compared to arts/bess students, so when we go out we go mad..

But it's worth it at the end.. sci grads (especially if it's a physical science) earn healthy wages.

If you have any more specific questions don't hesitate to ask..

Gazza22

Hey thanks alot. I heard that when you are choosing your specialist degree in the third year that it's like the cao all over again but on a smaller scale. There is a so-called struggle for places that entry depends on past exams and there is a quota of places on the degrees, is that true?

ApeXaviour

It is true.. you will get a place in something, there is the guarantee of that. It's ONLY based on your second year exams.. Generally it's easy to get into the physical sciences as there is less demand for them. It's usually microbiology, neuroscience (john2?) and physiology that are more difficult to get into.

Kevin_rc_ie

Natural Sciences at TCD

I’m doing this course.

Is the course good?

Good at what? Is it enjoyable? In first year you really have to choose if you’re going to go in the Biological or Non-Biological direction in terms of subject choice. Popular choices are “Physics (P), Chemistry(C) and Maths(M)” or Biology(B), Chemistry and Maths. You can also choose to do Geography/Geology (joint course)(GG)and two of the above. And the last option is to pick Maths methods(MM) (“ordinary level maths”) and 3 other subjects. I see Apexaviour as explained this a bit better than I have.

I chose Biology, Chemistry and Maths in first year. Apexaviour did PCM. The reason I chose my subject choice is because I had a biological orientation. A basic understanding of chemistry is important for all sciences so I did Chemistry too. In 2nd year you can drop chemistry and replace it with Geology. It is important to note that chemistry as a first year subject is a prerequisite for many moderatorships (you final subject choice for 3rd and 4th year, for example, Neurosciences and Biochemistry.) but you don’t need it in 2nd year except if you want to do Chemistry as your degree. I would recommend you don’t take up either Physics or Chemistry anew (if you haven’t done them for Leaving Cert.). However, there has been many people that take up Chemistry and had no problem after some initial hard work. I don’t know if it’s the same with Physics. Biology is fine to take up new. Unless you’re absolutely terrible at maths and/or hate it I recommend you take full Maths as opposed to MM.

All of the subjects are thought it a similar way. 3/4/5 hours of lectures a week per subject and a 3 hour lab on top of that. The lectures can be interesting and enjoyable and sometimes they can be boring and difficult to follow. The labs can follow this pattern too. The classes are quite big, especially for Biology. The timetable is quite full, not quite as bad as engineering but you’ll notice your friends in Business or History etc. have quite a lot less time in the class room.

So back on topic is it good? It depends really, like most things, on the individual. If you’re interested in science and you’re not terribly lazy or unsociable you’ll have no problems enjoying the year. You’ll get to know people quickly and have a laugh. However, if you constantly dodge lectures, you’ll find yourself quickly falling behind and alienating yourself. Unlike school, college is quite difficult to catch up on, on your own. There is no big, giant textbook or strict syllabus that lectures follow, so the best way to know what’s going on is to go to the lectures and read up after.

Difficulty? Unless you’re an idiot, the course is very doable. It just requires work and time. Conceptually nothing is extremely hard to understand. Because “Science” is a massive area, most of the courses and modules are really only a introduction.

Is it worth going for?

Well I’ve really spoken about the course from a 1st year perspective. In 2nd year the courses do gather a bit of momentum. They get a bit more tricky and they require an extra bit of effort. Unlike 1st year, IMO, the emphasis is on weeding out the litter. In first year you’d have to really try hard to fail. In second year, they’re less generous.

But if you get stuck in and find something you enjoy and work towards it you’ll have no bother. The 3rd subject choice is quite significant. You basically specialise. Physiology and Biochemistry and popular choices. Entry into 3rd year is a bit like the CAO. There are limited places in the different courses and it selection is based on the results of your two best subjects in the 2nd year annual (summer) exams. Unlike Pharmacy, Medicine or the other Health sciences, Natural Sciences isn’t quite as vocational as a degree. Not everyone that does a degree in Physiology becomes a Physiologist and works as a Physiologist etc etc. A lot of people stay on in academia and pursue M.Sc or PhDs. This requires more studying and exams/projects, often working long hours for less than what you’d earn in your summer job. Lots of people leave the whole science arena and go and work in completely different areas like consultantcy or media or teaching. And then others, like Biochemists go and work in labs. People with the chemical and Physics degrees with find an easier path to industry IMO.

So yes if you are genuinely interested in learning about science this degree is as good if not better than any other in Ireland. You will get a good job out of it, but don’t expect to be the next Bill Gates because you went to Trinity and got a degree. It will take a lot more than that.

Kevin_rc_ie

It's usually microbiology, neuroscience (john2?) and physiology that are more difficult to get into.

Over the last 2 years, and probably this year too, Biochemistry and Immunology, Physiolgy and Neuroscience are the hardest subjects to "get into". However, last year it was a 53% average for the 12 ppl doing Physiology.

Those that are easy to get into are: Botany, Microbiology and Biochemistry. But if does go up and down each year.

OP What do you intend on doing?

xeduCat

Sorry, just taking a quick break from lighting cigars with e50 notes stolen from students' pockets....

The lads have explained most of the answer already! Here's a list of the current options available for you after the end of second year:

Advanced materials (Phys & Chem of)
Biochemistry *
Biochemistry with Immunology
Botany
Chemistry**
Environmental sciences
Genetics
Geography
Geology
Microbiology
Neuroscience
Physics***
Physiology
Zoology

* Biochem is about to be split into two options: biochem with cell biology and biochem with structural biology
** You can also transfer into chemistry with molecular modelling (formerly known as computational chemistry) for 3rd year
*** Astrophysics is an option here, too. From next year, physics with computational physics will be accessed from 3rd year too.

Kevin_rc_ie

don't do physics or chemistry they're for nerds.

Pet

Hmm, I think kev explained it thoroughly. Also, he's in 2nd year whereas I'm only a fresher (and I missed a good 4 months at that..)

What I will say is, if you haven't done chemistry for the Leaving Cert, they do offer you a crash course for a week or two before term starts. And they tend to ease you into Chemistry anyways. If you intend to do anything in the biological sciences area, I'd strongly recommend doing chemistry, because you'll limit your options otherwise. I hated it for the LC, but the lectures that I did go to weren't so bad.

Biology is all split up into modules, some of which are ****e and some of which are good. Personally I hated biochemistry, and that was one of the first modules I had..but don't let that discourage you, it DOES get better.

The hours are longer than Arts or BESS and such courses, and the assignments tend to be less fun..you'll probably envy the Arts block at times. But when you graduate with a science degree, you'd get picked over an Arts student for almost any job. It's a great degree..even if you're applying for a job in something completely unrelated to science, you'll still be viewed favourably, as a science degree requires a certain level of dedication and..intelligence, I guess.

Finally, science students are usually quite a friendly, easy-going bunch (although you do get a certain number of nerds/lickarses/swots, but that's only to be expected). There's a great mix of students from all over Ireland, and you won't be judged on your choice of attire or your accent.

ApeXaviour

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

don't do physics or chemistry they're for nerds.

LIES I tells ya!

Don't mind him.. it's the cs, tp's and maths students who are nerds. We're just natural sci students who happened to find these subjects more interesting..

Kevin_rc_ie

physics students are all p1ss heads.

Gazza22

well that would be great, i would like to do microbiology

Kevin_rc_ie

good choice. it's a big group, about 23 ppl. but that's 2 years away you never know what might happen. you considered going to ucd?

Pet

it's a big group, about 23 ppl

23 people is a BIG group!? What's a SMALL group then!?

Gazza22

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

good choice. it's a big group, about 23 ppl. but that's 2 years away you never know what might happen. you considered going to ucd?

Yeah, UCD is definitely on the list but TCD is closer (not that it matters lol) and it would me my first choice. I was told UCD students are more into the partying than the Trinty students...is that debatable?

ApeXaviour

kev wrote:

However, there has been many people that take up Chemistry and had no problem after some initial hard work. I don’t know if it’s the same with Physics.

From my experience Physics is the hardest of the subjects to pick up from scratch. As much as i want people to take up physics I wouldn't recommend it.

you'd get picked over an Arts student for almost any job. It's a great degree..even if you're applying for a job in something completely unrelated to science, you'll still be viewed favourably, as a science degree requires a certain level of dedication and..intelligence, I guess.

Actually it's the skills you pick up during your degree (or so employers say). Applying maths and problem solving concepts to practical problems. Understanding concepts. Methodology, even graphing with excel.. Skills favoured over arts grads

I know a neuroscience grad working in some firm or other. A quarter of all physics graduates go into finance (are often even favoured over accountants or business grads!) There's good scope there to stick with what you're doing or to expand into something else..

Kevin_rc_ie

I was told UCD students are more into the partying than the Trinty students...is that debatable?

sounds like rubbish but who knows. you right to go with the college closer. taking everything else as equal

Pet

I can't say, having never gone to UCD..it might be fair though; UCD attracts more of the D4-area, whereas Trinity has a lot of people from down the country, some of which mightn't exactly be the life and soul of the party, so maybe it is true after all. Trinity is handier to get to, being right in the city centre. But if you're moving out of home or you actually live closer to Belfield then that's not an issue I guess.

ApeXaviour

Pet wrote:

23 people is a BIG group!? What's a SMALL group then!?

6 in botony in my year
8 in advanced materials
~18 in physics

Gazza22

What about Maths as a full subject? That would probably be my weakpoint on the course if i didn't take mm. Is it a large module? Would it be harder than L.C H maths?

Kevin_rc_ie

9 in NS,
12 in phs
27 this year in Zoo!

I know this guy that did Biochemistry a few years ago, he won 2000 euro on a scratch card, so it's definitetly a good degree to get.

Kevin_rc_ie

Hmm, it's like LC maths but they just take it a wee bit further. the exams are quite predictable and the lecturers are very descent. No hassle.

Gazza22

I was in a chemistry lecture a while back in TCD, the lecturer i think was called Pat Kenny by the students because he supposably looked like him...
Have to say, it turned me right off Chemistry, total bore lol

Kevin_rc_ie

the lecture.....total bore lol

you'll have to get used to that.

Gazza22

lol i guess i will have to

Kevin_rc_ie

Today a lecturer told me, he was a petrologist, that a piece of slate was as important to him as a family portrait. he sticks rocks in his office and it makes him happy.
....

lovely guy, but, needs a gf big time.

Gazza22

Ha, well i can just imagine how interesting his life is! Do you have an idea of what you will do after your degree?

ApeXaviour

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

. the exams are quite predictable

I'll be honest.. it's the easiest of the subjects precisely because of the above. If you can answer past papers, you're sorted. Same questions year after year just with the number's changed. And there're no labs!

ApeXaviour

gazza22 wrote:

Ha, well i can just imagine how interesting his life is! Do you have an idea of what you will do after your degree?

Can't say about kev.

I hope to get a II.1 ( :eek: I'll have to do some amount of work). Get a postgrad position, get a PhD and go into some form of industrial research.

Kevin_rc_ie

Who me? I just want to get the hell out of college and start working on my music.

ApeXaviour

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Who me? I just want to get the hell out of college and start working on my music.

The triangle I take it then?

Bleedin dosser

Kevin_rc_ie

yeah triangle choke.

Seriously, I hope to get involved in some Wildlife or Animal Behaviour research. Then win the lotto.

Gazza22

Whats this thing in TCD...hum if i can explain now :rolleyes: .... where you do some extra exams and the people who ace these have their masters paid for them

Kevin_rc_ie

In easter of 2nd year, you can volunteer to do some exams. The exams are supposed to be quite difficult. If you get really really good resultsv usually a 1st overall), and you meet other criteria (decided by particular department) you will receive a schlorship. This will entitle you to free accomodation on campus ( or money instead ), free commons ( a proper meal in the college dining hall ), payment of academic fees (does this include reg.?) for ur duration in college up to completion of a Master's degree.

If you get a 2:1 average, you may be allowed to skip the exam in the summer - excemption.


Maybe educat/myth/ano can complete that ^^^

Crash

ApeXaviour wrote:

LIES I tells ya!

Don't mind him.. it's the cs, tp's and maths students who are nerds. We're just natural sci students who happened to find these subjects more interesting..

we drink waaaay more than you. actually, in retrospect, i've spent more time in mahaffys (nearly twice as much) than lectures this year. worrying.

Ron DMC

Pet wrote:

23 people is a BIG group!? What's a SMALL group then!?

CSLL (4 in JF)
CSLI (1 in JF (me) )

Crash

Actually, who is in CSLL? theres yourself, that other guy, that girl....who's the fourth?

actually, gonna try and organise a 1st year night out soon enough - you guys have to actually come out never talked to any of you really

Pet

Whoah! So what, you just have some lectures/tutorials where it's just you? Or when you say "group" do you mean "the set of people doing CSLI"?

sleepingbeauty

well i would add something about science but i think the guys have covered everything...

Whats this thing in TCD...hum if i can explain now .... where you do some extra exams and the people who ace these have their masters paid for them

yeah as kev said you generally do them in 2nd year (you can do them in 3rd year but youre not elligible for exemptions then..). theyre called scholarship exams (schols) and i did them this year (im 2nd year physics, chem, maths). yeah they are kind of difficult but tbh i think the greatest difficulty is finding time to study for them during the year. i know if i did do more work i probably would have done better (i.e. get all that nice free stuff kev mentioned ). i cant complain though- i did get exemptions. they are worth it, im hardly ever in college nowadays (only have a chemistry exam for the summer- you do the schols in 2 out of 3 subjects)

so anyway yeah science in trin is great

John

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

9 in NS

It's 10 actually. Science is deadly. Do it.

Oh and WTF is CSLL/CSLI?

Kevin_rc_ie

it's 9. john2 is just a figment of our imagination.

computer science lingusistics language (french/german), computer science lingusistics irish?

John

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

it's 9. john2 is just a figment of our imagination.

computer science lingusistics language (french/german), computer science lingusistics irish?

Figmentalicious. Those courses sound incredibly dull.

Agent Smith

EduCat wrote:

Sorry, just taking a quick break from lighting cigars with e50 notes stolen from students' pockets....

So thats where the fifty i lost during the CsC ball....




Bastard

bonzai bob

just DON'T do maths methods, geography/geology, biology n chemistry..it's a bitch!

Kevin_rc_ie

lol i think that's what Pet want;s to do next year.
I keep on telling him to do BC and M. He won't listen. :-(.

Nietzschean

bonzai bob wrote:

just DON'T do maths methods, ..it's a bitch!

isn't that supposed to be easy maths?

ApeXaviour

yeah but it's on top of the other three subjects.

If you do maths as a full subject (which is grand, no labs) you only have to do 2 other subjects. Less work overall