Ebdons behaviour

eirebhoy

What about him spending a minute saying the ball was touching when he clearly knew it wasn't? I'm suprised nobody's talking about this.

Imposter

They should be charged by the hour for the table. that'd speed him up.

His tactics were spot on. Ronnie wasn't able to handle it. The only way of eliminating it is a shot clock.

Roar

i thought it was compelling viewing to be completely honest.. even though i was watching the footie i kept flicking over to see how the match was going...

ebdon went out to play slow, to infuriate ronnie, as peter knew that the longer o'sullivan would be in his chair the more infuriated he'd become and he'd lose his concentration.. time wasting? maybe.. but i think it's along the lines of a quarterback taking a knee three times and punting, just to wind down the clock...

anyone remember ebdon going for a blue that he could only half see before potting the pink? when the balls were replaced ebdon took off the referees glasses and had a look at the shot again, proving that he does have a sense of humour after all..

BaZmO*

Praetorian wrote:

Football teams will slow down / speed up the pace of a game to frustrate their opponents

Difference is that in football if you slow the ball down while in possession it's up to the opposition to close you down quicker. The only time you can really waste time without the opposition being able to do anything is when taking freekicks/throw-ins/kickouts, etc., but if you do that there are rules in place to stop you.

In snooker there is nothing you can do once you opponent has the table.

B.

Roar

Imposter wrote:

They should be charged by the hour for the table. that'd speed him up.

LOL

Imposter wrote:

His tactics were spot on. Ronnie wasn't able to handle it. The only way of eliminating it is a shot clock.

on the subject of a shot clock, i've watched a lot of the premier league on sky and i dont think the shot clock adds anything to the game.. its more annoying than anything else, watching a player build a break then fluffing a simple red caus the clock started to beep

eirebhoy

Imposter wrote:

They should be charged by the hour for the table. that'd speed him up.

His tactics were spot on. Ronnie wasn't able to handle it. The only way of eliminating it is a shot clock.

In fairness, I can't think of a player that would have been 100% focussed with Ebdon playing as slow as he did on Wednesday. Jesus, if the 9-16 placed players in the rankings decided to play as slow as Ebdon did on Wednesday for a year they'd all end up in the top 8. I want to see players making 147's and not players afraid to miss a ball because they'll be sitting watching someone chalk his cure for 60 seconds.

dahamsta

FYI, I happened to be watching yesterday when they posted average shot times - this was after, I think, 23 frames - and they pegged O'Sullivan's at just over 20 seconds, and Ebdon's at just over 40 seconds. It worked out to just less than double the time. Double the time seems like a lot, but an average shot time of 40 seconds, while long, isn't that long.

From looking at the posts in this thread, I get the impression that most of those that are pissed off only feel that way because the guy they wanted to win didn't. Which is kind of pathetic when you think about it.

adam

padser

despatch: I know that the simplest soloution would have been if the referee warned him during the game but i dont see a problem with the authorities taking restrospective action against a player. it happens in football all the time. Also i would prefer to see ROS put in against murphy however i veared away from it to prevent being called a ROS fan and simply being bitter he lost. My gripe is not with ROS going out but with unsporting behaviour being allowed to blatently creap in. Snooker has long relying on sporting behaviour form players..eg calling fouls on themselves, assisting refs wit re placing balls etc and i think in that kinda of spirit ebdon sould be ashamed of himself

eirebhoy

Article in todays Times.

THERE have been close to a maximum 147 euphemisms rolled out to describe Peter Ebdon’s shameless tactics on Wednesday night, when the former world champion recovered from 10-6 to defeat Ronnie O’Sullivan, the champion, 13-11 in the quarter-finals. The one word that has been absent is the one that crossed my mind while tuning in to that session of excruciating snooker: cheating.

The facts: Ebdon’s average shot time in the final session was a coma-inducing 40 seconds. In the twentieth frame, he took 5min 30sec to compile a break of 12, ten seconds slower than O’Sullivan took to knock in a maximum 147 at the same venue in 1997. He took 3min 5sec for a single shot in the opening frame of the final session, five seconds longer than it took Tony Drago to win an entire frame in 1988. Ken Doherty, a former world champion, said: “I’m a friend of Peter’s, but taking that long is bordering on the ridiculous.”

When asked about his tactics, Ebdon broke into an expression of shocked innocence. “I did not deliberately try to knock Ronnie out of his stride,” he said. “I did not even know what I was doing half the time.”

Pull the other one, Peter. O’Sullivan’s mounting frustration was visible to everyone in the auditorium. In the second frame of the evening, he asked someone in the audience for the time. He spent most of the rest of the session slumped in his chair looking half-asleep and at one point gouged his forehead with his fingernails.

Sport, you see, is about rhythm and it is virtually impossible to get into the groove when your opponent keeps switching the music off. You have got to admire Ebdon’s resourcefulness, though. His water-sipping, slow-walking, head-scratching shenanigans were a masterclass in how to waste time. He had the cue-ball cleaned so often it started to shrink. He will be asking for the Crucible carpets to be cleaned between shots should he get through to the final.

Time-wasting reared its ugly head in table tennis in the 1980s. Desmond Douglas, the turbo-charged former British No 1, faced Ulf Thorsell, of Sweden, in the final of an international competition. The Swede spent a good 30 seconds between points wiping imaginary perspiration from his brow in a successful attempt to knock the affable Englishman out of his stride. “Champion Towel-master” was the subsequent headline.

When the governing body changed the rules so that towelling down could occur only every five points, the time-wasters responded by tying their shoelaces instead. Eventually umpires were encouraged to use their discretion to invoke the catch-all rule that players should not indulge in “ungentlemanly conduct”.

I know — give arbiters enough subjective rope and the egomaniacal fringe of the blazered brigade will hang the sport. But, after Wednesday night, most in snooker would welcome a dose of officiousness if it put a stop to such gruelling gamesmanship.

Yet snooker referees already have the power to clamp down on slow play. The rule states: “If a referee considers that a player is taking an abnormal amount of time over a stroke or selection of strokes he shall warn the player that he is liable to have the frame awarded to his opponent.”

Disgracefully, there was not a peep from Colin Brinded, the jovial referee from Great Yarmouth. There is no suggestion that Brinded was fearful of Ebdon’s position on the board of the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association, but there is a possible conflict of interest, which needs to be reviewed.

O’Sullivan, too, must take his share of responsibility for failing to question the referee’s apparent spinelessness. As John Parrott, the former world champion, put it: “If it had been me, I would’ve asked the referee if what he was doing was in the rules and I’d have said it loudly enough for everyone to hear me.”

Ebdon was unapologetic after some hostile questioning. “To be honest, I don’t care what people say,” he said. “I won the match. Ronnie is an absolute genius and I have the utmost respect for him.” It is not his attitude to O’Sullivan that is in question, but his respect for the integrity of snooker. In a sport that is now bereft of tobacco sponsorship, Ebdon’s quest for supremacy through monotony could prove to be nothing less than disastrous.

BaZmO*

dahamsta wrote:

From looking at the posts in this thread, I get the impression that most of those that are pissed off only feel that way because the guy they wanted to win didn't. Which is kind of pathetic when you think about it.

adam

That's total BS! Snooker is renowned for good sportsmanship. Sure it was only the other day that Mark Williams called a foul against himself even no one saw it. And the commentators quite rightly commended him for it saying that it was totally in the spirit of the game.

The way I see when it comes to snooker, you beat your opposition by playing better than them and not by gamesmanship.

B.

padser

great quote from the irish times. i couldnt have put it better myself. Im actaully shocked at the number of people replying who cant see that wat ebdon did simply was not in the spirit of the game

DoctorEdgeWild

BaZmO* wrote:

The way I see when it comes to snooker, you beat your opposition by playing better than them and not by gamesmanship.

B.

Ebdon didn't hide Ronnie's cue or fool the referee. He just played slowly.

I think people are forgetting that he still had to pot the balls in order to get enough points to win the frames that he did. He won more frames than ROS and therefore won the match.

Wackman

So what half of you are saying is everybody should hurry up just to satisfy ronnie o sullivan? I loved the match. You lot would too if your 'genius' would have won. The guy who said kick ebdon out because he was slowing the play down, what are you smoking buddy? I dont see any rules breached, maybe just the unspoken rule that Nobody should make ronnie o sullivan sit in his chair, its not ebdons fault the guy is a nutcase with no patience.

eirebhoy

I couldn't care who wins the tournament, I'm a Ronnie fan but I'm not biased towards him. To put his loss down to being a nutcase is madness. This was the slowest match Ebdon played in his career. He would have beaten anyone playing at that pace.

BTW, to everyone that says Ebdon was right in playing extra-slow. What do you think of the touching ball incident?

Also, what if he did hide his cue? He's still trying to achieve the same thing which is rile his opponent up. I don't see a difference in hiding someones cue and doing the things Ebdon did in that match.

BaZmO*

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

Ebdon didn't hide Ronnie's cue or fool the referee.

:rolleyes: Don't be ridiculous, nobody is saying anything like that.

Ebdon won the game with gamesmanship pure and simple. Are you trying to tell me that Ken Doherty and John Parrott don't know what they're talking about?

B.

DoctorEdgeWild

EireBhoy - I definitely see a difference in playing slowly and hiding someone's cue. It was down to the referee to tell Ebdon to hurry up and he didn't. The ref has qute alot of opinion calls to make in snooker and he never said anything to Ebdon, not even a single warning.

The whole point of snooker is to outfox your opponent. I mean, the very name - snooker. Putting your opponent in a position where it is difficult for him to hit his objective ball. A player might have a relatively easy pot on but 9 times out of 10 if they have a very easy snooker in a tight frame/match, they will roll it up behind the brown or in essence screw their opponent over. It doesn't sound very sporting or gentlemanly when you put it like that but thats how you win games. By potting balls and preventing your opponent from doing the same. Peter Ebdon played WITHIN the rules and put up more frames than ROS, all of which were won legally.

BaZmO* - Ebdon won the game by getting to 13 frames quicker than his opponent - pure and simple as you said.

Ken Doherty and John Parrott know more about snooker than I could ever hope to. At no point did I say otherwise.

padser

Wackman wrote:

I dont see any rules breached, maybe just the unspoken rule that Nobody should make ronnie o sullivan sit in his chair, its not ebdons fault the guy is a nutcase with no patience.

actually there is a rule in snooker regarding taking undue time over shots. That was clearly breached by having the cue cleaned 30 times. I suggested kicking ebdon out would be a good idea....i also said i accept that its obviosly not goinig to happen

padser

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

Peter Ebdon played WITHIN the rules and put up more frames than ROS, all of which were won legally.



There's the letter of the law and the spirit of it. as the times article points out its within the letter of the law to tie your shoelace in tennis after every point, but any umpire will stop you. Its not a fair tactic to employ. In many raket sports you can go off court to take medication (such as an inhaler) if necessary....you would be within your rights to do this after point however no one would suggest that this is not an abuse of the spirit of the rule.

Bottom line with with what ebdon did yesterday he not only brought the game into disrepute he basically ensured that at some point in the future players shot time etc will become regulated - and thats something that simply didnt need to happen for 99% of the honest players out there, and it will be a loss to the sport

Wackman

padser wrote:

actually there is a rule in snooker regarding taking undue time over shots. That was clearly breached by having the cue cleaned 30 times. I suggested kicking ebdon out would be a good idea....i also said i accept that its obviosly not goinig to happen

The referee decides when rules are breached, he didnt find anything wrong. Everybody makes excuses for ronnie o sullivan. If all it takes is 40 second shot time to beat him then hes far from the 'genius' you lot think he is.

eirebhoy

DoctorEdgeWild wrote:

EireBhoy - I definitely see a difference in playing slowly and hiding someone's cue.

Oh come on. Did you see the game? If you call what Ebdon did playing slowly you mustn't have seen the game.

Wackman - Do you really think it was just an average shot time of 40 seconds that this whole debate is over? His average shot time is usually something like 33 seconds anyway.

The people saying we're annoyed because we wanted Ronnie to win obviously don't like Ronnie judging by the comments. I really couldn't care if Ronnie wins or not. I had big money on Maguire beating him in the first round and I would have loved to see him doing it. I liked Ebdon before Wednesday too. Now I'm delighted Murphy is destroying him atm. I couldn't be less biased so stop making comments like this:

The referee decides when rules are breached, he didnt find anything wrong. Everybody makes excuses for ronnie o sullivan. If all it takes is 40 second shot time to beat him then hes far from the 'genius' you lot think he is.

All that shows is you're the biased one.

DoctorEdgeWild

Yes, I saw the game.

Yes, Ebdon played really slow in order to get the upper hand on his opponent.

No, I don't think that was unsporting or bringing the game into disrepute.

Yes, I do think O'Sullivan lost his head with the frustration of being away from the table for so long.

All my opinion of course, and I dont know if this debate can go any further although as far as online debates go, its been a great one. Very nice to see it can still happen.



Eirebhoy - thanks for the link in your sig - got a great tip off that site last weekend and it came up for me.

dahamsta

eirebhoy wrote:

The people saying we're annoyed because we wanted Ronnie to win obviously don't like Ronnie judging by the comments.

I specifically said that. I couldn't give a toss either way, I think they're both muppets. I'm not even a huge fan of snooker, I just watch if it's on while I'm channel-hopping, just like I only posted in this thread cos I spotted it while viewing new posts, wondered what Ebdon was supposed to have done wrong, and found a bunch of people talking complete arse. I hope this clears things up.

adam

eirebhoy

I still haven't got a reply about the touching ball incident by anyone yet.

DoctorEdgeWild

The touching ball incident took maybe a minute, a minute 30? Hardly time to get the tent out.

eirebhoy

Will you let the time wasting escape your head for a minute. The touching ball incident was a completely different scenario and imo the silliest thing Ebdon did all night. That is not welcome in this sport. Pretending he thought the ball was touching to rile an opponent up. He's a bloody dickhead. If he wanted to win this tournament for the money, fair enough, but he makes enough money playing without having to cheat his way through. I would put that touching ball incident down as a little bit of cheating tbh.

I would be congratulating Ebdon only for this incident, believe me.

MrPinK

eirebhoy wrote:

The touching ball incident was a completely different scenario and imo the silliest thing Ebdon did all night. That is not welcome in this sport. Pretending he thought the ball was touching to rile an opponent up

You're assuming that he was pretending. Why are you so sure that he didn't really think they were touching?

eirebhoy

MrPinK wrote:

You're assuming that he was pretending. Why are you so sure that he didn't really think they were touching?

You don't have to study phychology to know the way he was reacting was not what you do when you think its touching. Its not even debatable, just believe me.

funky penguin

Fair play to ebdon. He wanted to win, and he did. He stuck to his guns, and made a great comeback.

RedRules5

How good can your game be if your ability to pot a ball is determined by the length of time you're sat before getting to the table? What about players making unbelievable comebacks from big deficits, they would hardly touch a ball, be domoralised and yet still be able to make frame winning breaks.
I do believe PE intentionally set out to play slowly as is his right, his error was to deny what was obvious to everybody.

mewso

Hmm strange post actually and I think it's difficult to avoid bias. I actually thought on the night that ROS was more unsporting. Strange how opinions differ. I'm not a fan of either player but I think Ebdon is a pretty genuine guy.
I've watched snooker for over 20 years now (a bitter life long Jimmy fan) and I honestly think Ebdon is just a very intense player who loses all perpective when making a huge effort to win a match. I believed him when he said he was not trying to put ROS off his game. Obviously others don't so what can you do. Sorry guys but unless you can proove you know what was going through Ebdon's mind then you have to forget it.
Ronnie was downright ignorant in his behaviour (that is not the way to deal with the situation). I agree with the fact that he is a genuis on the table but tbh the "problems" he has are getting a bit tiresome now. Give me fast players like Mathew Stevens who amazingly just play the game with little fuss.