Rule 42 Changed

spanner

LFCFan wrote:

People need to stop living in the past. All this crap about Union Jacks and God Save the Queen etc etc is just bigotry. We should be bigger than this. At the end of the day, Croke Park is a Stadium. A pretty damn good stadium and one that is under utilised. From a business point of view it wouldn't have been rediculous not to rent it out if needed. One of the arguments from certain camps was that GAA players dedicate their lives to the game and never get the play in Croke Park, and now non GAA players will get this opportunity. What about the International Rules Ozzie team? They aren't GAA heads and they get to play there? This argument stinks of 'if we can't play there, nobody can'. Grow up!

The whole world will get to see what a great Stadium the Irish can build when they put their minds to it. It might shame the FAI and IRFU into re-organising themselves!

i think that is exactly what the GAA has done, they have forgiven but not forgotten, i agree we shouldnt live our history and but not to forget it and thats why hill 16 should stay standing, and it was not the northern counties that wanted hill 16 to stay their but the dubs because they recognise its part of dublins history

spanner

i think at the end of the day this agruement has been closed and is a great day for irish sport, as the wexford county board memeber said "if your neighbours house burned down and you had a spare room you would let them in " and thats what they did

[Jackass]

I'm over the moon tbh. I can't stand the GAA and there attitude (and un-gratefullness to the Irish people who paid for the maority of the stadium), i cant believe they've allowed it, and i'll be interested in what rent they charge (approx €4 million net income from gate receipts in a sell out croke park) I'm sure they shaft them with around a €3 million rent agreement, which could push ticket prices up from approx €60 to €80. But we'll see.

Out of all this though, im still pissed at how the Government, IRFU and FAI couldn't organise a stadium between them. Landsdowne road should have been left, and Abbotstown should have been the new location (approx 80,000 all seater, revised down to 60,000). But with all the money that has been spent to date, the rise in costs, and the predicted costs of re-devoloping Landsdowne, if they had jusy gone ahead with abbotstown around the time of the development of the acquatci center, they would have a 80,000 all seater, state of the art stadium built, and for less the cost of this current project. And with an extra stadium (the old landsdowne)

But the worst part of it all is, even when Landsdowne is done, it's still going to be too small...it's under 50,000 afaik, and has only increased capacity of around 5,000 seats...what's the point??

It's too small to host major international events such as national games, and should we ever attempt a joint hosting, like we did with scotland before, Landsdowne wont be much of an asset

daveirl

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Eoin

daveirl wrote:

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I agree - take Twickenham for example: a super stadium, but the long trek to anywhere remotely central afterwards can really kill the buzz of a match day.

Imposter

DubGuy wrote:

I'm over the moon tbh. I can't stand the GAA and there attitude (and un-gratefullness to the Irish people who paid for the maority of the stadium), i cant believe they've allowed it, and i'll be interested in what rent they charge (approx €4 million net income from gate receipts in a sell out croke park) I'm sure they shaft them with around a €3 million rent agreement, which could push ticket prices up from approx €60 to €80. But we'll see.

As i've said before numerous times, i agree they should have opened it up, but i'd of liked if the entire Rule 42 issue was discussed and modernized in a way that's good for the GAA. In saying that the decision at the weekend is a positive one and hopefully any partnerships that come from it will benifit everyone involved.

As for DubGuy here, I reckon the "keep it closed" gang in the GAA should have hired him. I'm sure the bits i've highlighted above would have done wonders for their argument and in fairness after reading that, i'd have to agree with them!

Now lets get the next round of arguments going about the amount of rent the GAA have the nerve to charge etc etc...

[Jackass]

I agree about centeral stadium, it's a great atmosphere builder,and makes match day much better. I've only been away to Cardiff, which is very centeral also.

I never really considerd that about abbotstown, but if there was a national stadium there, i'm sure a town would be built up around it of shops, pubs etc.?

It would have been a shame if it killed the atmosphere, but i suppose we'll never know, now, so it dosen't really matter

Richiethehurler

Lads,

the ignorance of some of the guys posting to this forum gets on my nerves. You guys go on as if rugby has a god given right to play in croke park, because so much of it was paid by the taxpayer. Well - only 19.5 million euros was paid by the government towards redeveloping croke park. And that was just to ensure that the stadium was ready for the special olympics. Another 95 million was from LOTTO funding. Funding thats used to give grants to sporting bodies. The GAA paid for the rest - about 130 million euros. So the GAA asked the lotto fund for 95 million euro. If they didnt get it they still would have redeveloped croke park. So the GAA got, in total, about 115 million euros in total.

On the other hand the Lansdowne road development will be getting 191 million euros funding.

So lads, please stop spouting this sh*te about taxpayers money.

Richie the hurler

LFCFan

It shouldn't be about who spent what on what. It should be about an organisation being big enough to say, 'Ok lads. You're in a spot of bother while your stadium is being built. You can rent ours'. What the hell is wrong with this? In any other country it wouldn't be an issue, it would be business. In Ireland though, with so much hatred for all things English, it becomes a goddamn major controversey. At the end of the day, it's all about SPORT. The FAI don't need somewhere to hang people for crimes against humanity. They want to play football. This whole thing has been blown so far out of proportion at this stage it makes Ireland look like a biggoted small minded little hole.

Richiethehurler

yes - youre right. youre absolutely right. but that vote has already been made - so why are you going on about bigotry. The GAA are allowing in soccer and rugby - so why are you still bringing that bigotry line up?

but the fact is i didnt bring up this thing about taxpayers money in the first place. Someone else quoted bare lies about my organisation the GAA in this thread, and i have a right to defend my organisation. I was against rule 42 - not for hatred of the english, or for anything like that. I'm more afraid of fixture clashing. What if dublin and meath couldnt play each other in croker cos some ireland qualifier had been booked there ages ago. Fixture congestion has become a real problem in the all-ireland championship and series over recent years. Of course the GAA would be lambasted unjustly by the media if they said that no games could be played there during the championship. Sure i've already seen some posts giving out about the gaa because they want to charge way too much for renting out the stadium, even though nothing has been released. And, in the papers (sunday indo and times) over the weekend, after rule 42, when you would expect the media to praise the GAA over the decision - all i saw was a couple of sneering articles about the GAA again!!

The_Conductor

Richiethehurler wrote:

Lads,

the ignorance of some of the guys posting to this forum gets on my nerves. You guys go on as if rugby has a god given right to play in croke park, because so much of it was paid by the taxpayer. Well - only 19.5 million euros was paid by the government towards redeveloping croke park. And that was just to ensure that the stadium was ready for the special olympics. Another 95 million was from LOTTO funding. Funding thats used to give grants to sporting bodies. The GAA paid for the rest - about 130 million euros. So the GAA asked the lotto fund for 95 million euro. If they didnt get it they still would have redeveloped croke park. So the GAA got, in total, about 115 million euros in total.

On the other hand the Lansdowne road development will be getting 191 million euros funding.

So lads, please stop spouting this sh*te about taxpayers money.

Richie the hurler

According to RTE, the total exchequer funding for the GAA redevelopment, with the 40 million top-up last September, came to Euro 110 million. That is "exchequer funding".....
It relates to application 1215 for funding from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, of November 2002.

Link: http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0930/gaa

The additional funding was demanded by the GAA because of an undertaking they gave to Bertie to play a certain number of games at the proposed Abbottstown development (an attempt by Bertie to ensure the viability of Abbottstown).

Link:
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0565/D.0565.200304160011.html

The initial IR£60m grant given to the GAA (in 2001) towards the Croke Park redevelopment was contingent on the facilities being available for the Special Olympics.

In addition to Euro 110 million of exchequer funding, the GAA also received funding from the National Lottery.

Please check your facts before castigating others who are discussing matters here.......

Richiethehurler

Get it right muppet - heres the GAA's report:

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=43562

LFCFan

the bigotry angle to the whole debate comes from the likes of people ringing into radio stations giving out about the chance of 'God save the Queen' being sung at Croker or the English flag etc etc. Thankfully the GAA have finally moved forward and see the benefits of renting Croker.

I'd doubt there would be fixture congestion and can anyone seriously see the GAA not having games like Meath v Dublin in Croker? The fixtures for the Championship are always done way in advance so the stadium won't be available on those dates, simple!

Richiethehurler

no - the fixtures are not done way in advance any more - not with the all-ireland series around these days - they dont know where to play matches because sometimes they dont know who'll be playing each other because the draw only takes place the week previous, after the all-ireland series matches have been played. - in the championship they do have dates set - but what if theres a draw.

The_Conductor

Richiethehurler wrote:

Get it right muppet - heres the GAA's report:

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=43562

Reported for insulting behaviour. I do not appreciate being called a muppet. I gave valid references to reliable sources- whereas you are quoting an organ of your own (not sure whether its official or not).
The links I provided were from the Oireachtas and RTE.
Oddly enough I wonder which is less likely to have the cavalier partisan attitudes towards reporting of information....

MG

LFCFan wrote:

I'd doubt there would be fixture congestion and can anyone seriously see the GAA not having games like Meath v Dublin in Croker? The fixtures for the Championship are always done way in advance so the stadium won't be available on those dates, simple!

The big GAA games which require Croker are virtually all in the summer, while the big Soccer games are in winter and midweek, while Rugby would need the stadium only for the 6N in spring and the Autumn int'ls so there may not be that many conflicts.

Well done to the GAA for opeing up the stadium but I still can't stand the monoply on Irishness a minority hardcore in the GAA seem to believe in. Nor do I believe in the "enormous good the GAA has done for this country" [copyright 1884]. I'd love to hear one journalist brave enough to speak about the enormous damage they did to the country.

At least, times are changing a little and well done especially to Sean Kelly.

Richiethehurler

what i have given you is a complete breakdown of where the money came from - what you have given is how much money was given. both add up to the same amount - but you seem to think that all of that money was given by the taxpayer, when it was a combination of the taxpayer and the lotto, and only a small percentage (5.85 percent of the total cost), and then you proceed to try and say that my sources are unreliable. That was from the gaas yearly financial report. There is nothing in your web pages which indicates the actual source of the money - its just from the government.

And i apologise for the muppet thing - didnt mean any real offence by it.

Richiethehurler

i gotta ask - what enormous damage did the gaa do to this country.

Peace

Richiethehurler wrote:

i gotta ask - what enormous damage did the gaa do to this country.

ditto.

MG, please elaborate. I'm pretty ignorant of irish history, so explain it like i'm a 4 year old.

Richiethehurler

and all the important soccer matches arent midweek as far as i know - i can understand that during the soccer season matches are midweek - but i seem to remember one ireland v holland match, which knocked holland out of qualifying for the wc that was at the weekend, on a gaa weekend as well.

[Jackass]

I'm not sure this is the forum for it..but i suppose we can keep going untill it's moved/locked.

OK richiethehurler, i'll tell you my problem with the GAA, and this is only my opinion, and im not trying to speak on behalf of anybody else.

They can breed people who are thought that Irishness is GAA, and people who dont play/ or instead play foreign sports (not home grown sports such as American football and Aussie rules/ international rules , as its a known fact our fore-fathers played these sports reguarly :rolleyes: i wouldnt suggest the GAA are hippocrits) are anti-irish.

The GAA openly express contempt for other sports as though part of our nationality is our duty to GAA (it was even a rule untill very recently that you are forbidden from playing anything but GAA), and for a institution who prides itself on it's Irishness and pride in there country, you would think they would offer to share with the country a fantastic stadium which the Irish people paid for wheter you like it or not. Government Funds = Irish public taxpayer, Lotto funds = Irish Rugby/Soccer/GAA fans/ General public money, GAA Funds = GAA/Rugby/Soccer fans in attendance, donations, investment.

You see outside your sport, it's ok to like/watch/go to matches for Rugby, Soccer and GAA, because it's not necceray to discriminate, and is possible to enjoy all of them, and many rugby/soccer fans support football/ hurling also (and vice versa).

GAA can breed biggots by it's very nature, its rules, and its attitude. That is how i feel it has been damaging to Ireland (not that whoever said it in this thread already ment that..i dont know). It has been a major factor in Irish attuitudes coming out of the dark ages and into modern accepting/forgiving/progressive state. The GAA has and untill recently has always been stuck in the dark ages of war and oppression.

And fundementaly, it's the shoe on the other foot argument. If the IRFU owned croker, they would share it not because they did or didnt need the money, or because it was or wasn't paid for by the public, but simply because they would support a fellow association. The GAA have made such a fuss and a argument over this for the last 5+ years in particular i feel embarresed for them.

A clear indication of the GAA republican/anti brit attitude is also the voting pattern for rule 42 also. Finally all the countys of the republic were coming around to the idea, with the exception of Cork, but every single club and county in N.Ireland (obviously the GAA parts of N.Ireland would be the fierce republican sectors) was stanch against it still and wouldn't even consider it. And that to me proves the whole fact that the GAA is run, supported and profits off anti-brit sentement alone, and don't be fooled by the argument that "they want to protect themselves from playersgoing to other sports" because GAA is the national game in Ireland, the biggest game, always has been, and always will be. It's part of our history, heritage, and pride, but it's time for them to progress a hundred years or so from where they are.

Richiethehurler

Dubguy - i get your point - and i understand what you are talking about. it is a valid point - but here - i have to disagree with you with this attitude only being held by the gaa. I went to a rugby playing school, where gaa was banned outright banned. and this school was in the middle of a number of gaa clubs, and there was quite a lot of gaa being played in the primary schools which fed this particular secondary school. I believe that still happens in quite a number of rugby schools in dublin anyway. So is it fair that this ban is still there in these schools - or is that bigoted?

RuggieBear

Richiethehurler wrote:

Dubguy - i get your point - and i understand what you are talking about. it is a valid point - but here - i have to disagree with you with this attitude only being held by the gaa. I went to a rugby playing school, where gaa was banned outright banned. and this school was in the middle of a number of gaa clubs, and there was quite a lot of gaa being played in the primary schools which fed this particular secondary school. I believe that still happens in quite a number of rugby schools in dublin anyway. So is it fair that this ban is still there in these schools - or is that bigoted?

That could well be true but it isn't an IRFU sanctioned act. I believe Blackrock College (one of the biggest rugby schools in the Country and some where DeValera taught) have a very good GAA football team at the moment. What's Your school btw? Would be curious to know...

LegacyUser

wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Third_Echelon
...apart from the hill 16 bit at the end, which will always bring croker down in my opinion... finish the god damn thing GAA!!! *shakes fist at GAA out of architectural outrage*



something with the history of hill 16(been built from the ruins of the GPO) should never be knocked down. we should remeber we are a guess in this statium and we never had a god given right to play their.

One of the reasons that they kept the Hill, was to allow the weather elements to affect the pitch as realistically as possible. Some stadia that have complete 360° stands and roofs, the pitch are so artificially maintained, that sometimes you might as well be playing on astro-turf. Gaelic Games, esp hurling, were founded and have been played for years on completely natual grass pitches, and even though the pitch in Croke Park is somewhat artificial in its make-up (Desso), the fact that the Hill is open still lets rain and sunlight on to the turf.

Also, if down the line FAI soccer games are played there, the capacity will be reduced somewhat due to FIFA regulations. I'm not sure if it's possible to install temporary seating in the Hill like they do in the terraces at Lansdowne, but you're going to lose at least a few thousand tickets as a result of this. Currently the rugby would be at normal capacity if there was a match there

Trojan

smmc - reported post acknowledged. I'd prefer not to ban the idiot because he had a couple of semi-coherent posts, and he has apologised.

I'm gonna let this run. I'm fascinated to see where we end up.

Oh, and no offense intended by use of the term "idiot"

daveirl

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[Jackass]

daveirl wrote:

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Oh, my mistake....i didn't realise you had to be black to be a victim of racism.

But i was more talking about the GAA's attitude still being simular to that of an Irish man in 1916.

A lot has changed since then (except for the GAA untill recently ).

But anyway, well done to the GAA for it's superb stadium, i realise Dave that the IRFU and FAI have wasted countless amounts of money, time and oppertunity to have a fantastic stadium themselves, i was just making the point that if the GAA had no stadium there would be no questions asked and no fuss what so ever in allowing them to use a FAI or IRFU stadium.

But anyway, they've made the vote now, which i think all sports fans are very appreciative for, and wheter or not soccer or rugby ever makes it to croke park, it's still a great gesture and a great step forward for the GAA. (that they didn't have to make if they didn't want to...which makes it even better on their part.)