Rule 42 Changed

daveirl

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beller b

Indeed it is!!

DirtyHarry

can someone pls tell me why all the counties in northern Ireland voted no?

i read the times today and it didnt shed any light on it.

Tis true, its good croke park has opened its doors. Now i can get tickets to the rugby matches!!

Amz

Well the politics and segregation etc. would be more evident in Nothern Ireland so it's hardly surprising that they'd vote no, surely you don't need this explained to you?

daveirl

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Sangre

Amazing, can't wait to see how the atmosphere for an Irish international is like in Croke Park.

daveirl

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Sangre

Yeah good point but with ticket demands lately hopefully those who respect it will be able to enforce it on any minority.

Third_Echelon

daveirl wrote:

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That'll be interesting alright... I'm sure the 'extra' crowd going to the internationals though will just be the people who couldn't usually get tickets for lansdowne road.

Do you think they'll go down a ticketmaster route because of the extra capacity?

Ruu_Old

good to see it remembering its temporary. at least the world can see more of Croke Park as stadium we can be proud to show off.

Third_Echelon

Ruu wrote:

good to see it remembering its temporary. at least the world can see more of Croke Park as stadium we can be proud to show off.

...apart from the hill 16 bit at the end, which will always bring croker down in my opinion... finish the god damn thing GAA!!! *shakes fist at GAA out of architectural outrage*

The_Conductor

The reason that it was repeatedly voted down in the past (along with the ban on members of the security forces playing Gaelic games) relates to the massacre in 1920, where Croke Park was invaded by security forces and 16 players shot dead on the field (the original bloody Sunday). Its not a segregation thing (Cork and Kilkenny voted "Nil" as well as the 6 northern counties)- for exactly the same reason.

In other news- its estimated that the IRFU may be charged upwards of 1.25 million per match for the use of the ground (ditto the FAI). Its thought that the first call for use of the ground may be Feb/March '07 by the IRFU and May/June '07 by the FAI......

The smaller GAA clubs are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of new revenue streams coming on for them- as their share of the Croke Park rent money materialises.......

rugbug86

I cannot wait to go to work next week. Had a huge row about Rule 42 with them and now I can shove it where the sun don't shine... beside croker of course, because its so big... yeay, tickets!

Ron DMC

Well, there goes our history.

Croke Park used to mean something :mad:

/me sulks

Nukem

Well happy:D

bein listening to all the arguements on the radio all today and some i agree with and some i dont. Its GAA stadium they built they own it and its very nice they are letting the FAI & IRFU rent it. On the other hand what the hell was the problem they let American Football in and International rules(Still foreign sport) and not rugby & soccer.But i have to be annoyed at the FAI and the IRFU for such a sh!te job organizing the redvelopment of Lansdowne and the lack of grace in lettin it come to this.

Nukem

Guy:Incognito

Nukem wrote:

Well happy:D

bein listening to all the arguements on the radio all today and some i agree with and some i dont. Its GAA stadium they built they own it

With the help of a shedload of money from the government, which in turn means every single taxpayer in the country contibuted. It should have been a condition of them getting the money in the first place that they removed rule 42.

rugbug86

Stekelly wrote:

With the help of a shedload of money from the government, which in turn means every single taxpayer in the country contibuted. It should have been a condition of them getting the money in the first place that they removed rule 42.

i agree 1000000%!!! they got 130 million in funding to build croker and they aint even finished! (No stand over the hill) ok it might be finished but it doesnt look finished!

i reckon the gaa heads would complain if the govt. gave 130 million to the irfu to build a stadium.

and is this not a better solution than irish people travelling to cardiff for our home internationals???

daveirl

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Guy:Incognito

We (the IRFU & FAI) should take €130m worth of the stadium ( one stand would do) and use it to start a new stadium.

RuggieBear

Ronny Mitchell wrote:

Well, there goes our history.

Croke Park used to mean something :mad:

/me sulks

Fucking Pray tell......!?

Nukem

Stekelly wrote:

With the help of a shedload of money from the government, which in turn means every single taxpayer in the country contibuted. It should have been a condition of them getting the money in the first place that they removed rule 42.

Ya - i know but what the hell were the IRFU & FAI doin with all there money?
Fook knows its not goin on the development of the game in Ireland that all sponsorship. Just annoys me to see two professional institues p*ssing about while an amateur association can build such a class stadium and they we are left with Lansdowne road?

If i was the IRFU & FAI i would be severly embarrased and the GAA should be wetting themselves laughing at them.

Sangre

They have no problems building a new stadium, its the fact we have nowhere in Ireland to play in the mean time. Its pretty obvious.

And from what I have heard its a total overhaul with the new pitch perpendicular to the old one.

Third_Echelon

Sangre wrote:

They have no problems building a new stadium, its the fact we have nowhere in Ireland to play in the mean time. Its pretty obvious.

And from what I have heard its a total overhaul with the new pitch perpendicular to the old one.

I know how you feel Sangre.... I hate all that GAA 'holier than thou' cr@p, just because they built a stadium before the 'professional' organisations. The FAI and the IRFU have a hell of a lot more expenses than the GAA. The FAI have to pay players. World Cups dont come for free. They dont stay in hostels when they are playing away.

The IRFU have to pay every pro players wages in ireland. Brian O'Driscoll's current contract is rumoured to be around €500,000 per year. Not all players on this money, but they are getting decent wages... All this tots up to a big bill at the end of the year. These organisations dont run on thin air you know...

With the GAA being an amatuer organisation dont have the wages issue. Fair enough they pay expenses etc and pay for a few weeks in the canaries for teams etc, but i wouldn't imagine that they have the same monetary output of the other 2 organisations.

From what I've seen Sangre, the stadium will be staying at the current angle, but it is being moved over a bit so the dart tracks will be behind, rather than under the new west stand...

daveirl

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RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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It's quite expensive taking 50+ IRFU officials/alickadoooooos (and their wifes) away to 5star hotels In England, Wales, France and scotland......from thursday thru sunday. Oh and basically put up all the same at the Berkley court for the home games (even those living in Dublin)....and pay for all their drinking and food.....while giving the players a ****ing pitiful allowance

daveirl

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Amz

You gotta love Ireland ...

RuggieBear

Amz wrote:

You gotta love Ireland ...

yeah......

Actually remember reading an article from a former player who was talking about how the officials always booked a hotel right in the middle of raucous Edinburgh for the themseleves and the players.....great if you want to be drinking to all hours but not much good if you want a peaceful night prior to playing a test match...

spanner

Third_Echelon wrote:

...apart from the hill 16 bit at the end, which will always bring croker down in my opinion... finish the god damn thing GAA!!! *shakes fist at GAA out of architectural outrage*

something with the history of hill 16(been built from the ruins of the GPO) should never be knocked down. we should remeber we are a guess in this statium and we never had a god given right to play their.

I dont agree with the northern counties but i do understand them, i was up for the wexford game(who are now in the first league final since 1945 come on wexford!!!) in crossmaglen in aramagh and no one should have to play sports under them conditions, they actually wait for the game to begin and then start to fly the helicopters over the pitch, and seemly during the hieght of the troubles it was alot worse, they would stop anyone from going into the game and once it began let them in in dribs and drabs. and remeber this means god save the queen is going to be played in croke park. the croke park that has a stand that bares the name of a player that was shot by the british army on the very pitch playing his game.


overall happy with the news and it just shows how far the GAA has come

LFCFan

People need to stop living in the past. All this crap about Union Jacks and God Save the Queen etc etc is just bigotry. We should be bigger than this. At the end of the day, Croke Park is a Stadium. A pretty damn good stadium and one that is under utilised. From a business point of view it wouldn't have been rediculous not to rent it out if needed. One of the arguments from certain camps was that GAA players dedicate their lives to the game and never get the play in Croke Park, and now non GAA players will get this opportunity. What about the International Rules Ozzie team? They aren't GAA heads and they get to play there? This argument stinks of 'if we can't play there, nobody can'. Grow up!

The whole world will get to see what a great Stadium the Irish can build when they put their minds to it. It might shame the FAI and IRFU into re-organising themselves!

spanner

lets remeber if this all goes ahead, we will now be playing in the biggest statium in the 6 nations competion

Stade de France, Paris croke park overall capacity 82,500
Capacity: 80,000

Millennium Stadium Cardiff Arms Park
Capacity:72,500

Twickenham
Capacity:75,000

Murrayfield Stadium
Capacity:67,500

Viale Maresciallo Pilsudski
Capacity: 25,000

spanner

LFCFan wrote:

People need to stop living in the past. All this crap about Union Jacks and God Save the Queen etc etc is just bigotry. We should be bigger than this. At the end of the day, Croke Park is a Stadium. A pretty damn good stadium and one that is under utilised. From a business point of view it wouldn't have been rediculous not to rent it out if needed. One of the arguments from certain camps was that GAA players dedicate their lives to the game and never get the play in Croke Park, and now non GAA players will get this opportunity. What about the International Rules Ozzie team? They aren't GAA heads and they get to play there? This argument stinks of 'if we can't play there, nobody can'. Grow up!

The whole world will get to see what a great Stadium the Irish can build when they put their minds to it. It might shame the FAI and IRFU into re-organising themselves!

i think that is exactly what the GAA has done, they have forgiven but not forgotten, i agree we shouldnt live our history and but not to forget it and thats why hill 16 should stay standing, and it was not the northern counties that wanted hill 16 to stay their but the dubs because they recognise its part of dublins history

spanner

i think at the end of the day this agruement has been closed and is a great day for irish sport, as the wexford county board memeber said "if your neighbours house burned down and you had a spare room you would let them in " and thats what they did

[Jackass]

I'm over the moon tbh. I can't stand the GAA and there attitude (and un-gratefullness to the Irish people who paid for the maority of the stadium), i cant believe they've allowed it, and i'll be interested in what rent they charge (approx €4 million net income from gate receipts in a sell out croke park) I'm sure they shaft them with around a €3 million rent agreement, which could push ticket prices up from approx €60 to €80. But we'll see.

Out of all this though, im still pissed at how the Government, IRFU and FAI couldn't organise a stadium between them. Landsdowne road should have been left, and Abbotstown should have been the new location (approx 80,000 all seater, revised down to 60,000). But with all the money that has been spent to date, the rise in costs, and the predicted costs of re-devoloping Landsdowne, if they had jusy gone ahead with abbotstown around the time of the development of the acquatci center, they would have a 80,000 all seater, state of the art stadium built, and for less the cost of this current project. And with an extra stadium (the old landsdowne)

But the worst part of it all is, even when Landsdowne is done, it's still going to be too small...it's under 50,000 afaik, and has only increased capacity of around 5,000 seats...what's the point??

It's too small to host major international events such as national games, and should we ever attempt a joint hosting, like we did with scotland before, Landsdowne wont be much of an asset

daveirl

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Eoin

daveirl wrote:

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I agree - take Twickenham for example: a super stadium, but the long trek to anywhere remotely central afterwards can really kill the buzz of a match day.

Imposter

DubGuy wrote:

I'm over the moon tbh. I can't stand the GAA and there attitude (and un-gratefullness to the Irish people who paid for the maority of the stadium), i cant believe they've allowed it, and i'll be interested in what rent they charge (approx €4 million net income from gate receipts in a sell out croke park) I'm sure they shaft them with around a €3 million rent agreement, which could push ticket prices up from approx €60 to €80. But we'll see.

As i've said before numerous times, i agree they should have opened it up, but i'd of liked if the entire Rule 42 issue was discussed and modernized in a way that's good for the GAA. In saying that the decision at the weekend is a positive one and hopefully any partnerships that come from it will benifit everyone involved.

As for DubGuy here, I reckon the "keep it closed" gang in the GAA should have hired him. I'm sure the bits i've highlighted above would have done wonders for their argument and in fairness after reading that, i'd have to agree with them!

Now lets get the next round of arguments going about the amount of rent the GAA have the nerve to charge etc etc...

[Jackass]

I agree about centeral stadium, it's a great atmosphere builder,and makes match day much better. I've only been away to Cardiff, which is very centeral also.

I never really considerd that about abbotstown, but if there was a national stadium there, i'm sure a town would be built up around it of shops, pubs etc.?

It would have been a shame if it killed the atmosphere, but i suppose we'll never know, now, so it dosen't really matter

Richiethehurler

Lads,

the ignorance of some of the guys posting to this forum gets on my nerves. You guys go on as if rugby has a god given right to play in croke park, because so much of it was paid by the taxpayer. Well - only 19.5 million euros was paid by the government towards redeveloping croke park. And that was just to ensure that the stadium was ready for the special olympics. Another 95 million was from LOTTO funding. Funding thats used to give grants to sporting bodies. The GAA paid for the rest - about 130 million euros. So the GAA asked the lotto fund for 95 million euro. If they didnt get it they still would have redeveloped croke park. So the GAA got, in total, about 115 million euros in total.

On the other hand the Lansdowne road development will be getting 191 million euros funding.

So lads, please stop spouting this sh*te about taxpayers money.

Richie the hurler

LFCFan

It shouldn't be about who spent what on what. It should be about an organisation being big enough to say, 'Ok lads. You're in a spot of bother while your stadium is being built. You can rent ours'. What the hell is wrong with this? In any other country it wouldn't be an issue, it would be business. In Ireland though, with so much hatred for all things English, it becomes a goddamn major controversey. At the end of the day, it's all about SPORT. The FAI don't need somewhere to hang people for crimes against humanity. They want to play football. This whole thing has been blown so far out of proportion at this stage it makes Ireland look like a biggoted small minded little hole.

Richiethehurler

yes - youre right. youre absolutely right. but that vote has already been made - so why are you going on about bigotry. The GAA are allowing in soccer and rugby - so why are you still bringing that bigotry line up?

but the fact is i didnt bring up this thing about taxpayers money in the first place. Someone else quoted bare lies about my organisation the GAA in this thread, and i have a right to defend my organisation. I was against rule 42 - not for hatred of the english, or for anything like that. I'm more afraid of fixture clashing. What if dublin and meath couldnt play each other in croker cos some ireland qualifier had been booked there ages ago. Fixture congestion has become a real problem in the all-ireland championship and series over recent years. Of course the GAA would be lambasted unjustly by the media if they said that no games could be played there during the championship. Sure i've already seen some posts giving out about the gaa because they want to charge way too much for renting out the stadium, even though nothing has been released. And, in the papers (sunday indo and times) over the weekend, after rule 42, when you would expect the media to praise the GAA over the decision - all i saw was a couple of sneering articles about the GAA again!!

The_Conductor

Richiethehurler wrote:

Lads,

the ignorance of some of the guys posting to this forum gets on my nerves. You guys go on as if rugby has a god given right to play in croke park, because so much of it was paid by the taxpayer. Well - only 19.5 million euros was paid by the government towards redeveloping croke park. And that was just to ensure that the stadium was ready for the special olympics. Another 95 million was from LOTTO funding. Funding thats used to give grants to sporting bodies. The GAA paid for the rest - about 130 million euros. So the GAA asked the lotto fund for 95 million euro. If they didnt get it they still would have redeveloped croke park. So the GAA got, in total, about 115 million euros in total.

On the other hand the Lansdowne road development will be getting 191 million euros funding.

So lads, please stop spouting this sh*te about taxpayers money.

Richie the hurler

According to RTE, the total exchequer funding for the GAA redevelopment, with the 40 million top-up last September, came to Euro 110 million. That is "exchequer funding".....
It relates to application 1215 for funding from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, of November 2002.

Link: http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0930/gaa

The additional funding was demanded by the GAA because of an undertaking they gave to Bertie to play a certain number of games at the proposed Abbottstown development (an attempt by Bertie to ensure the viability of Abbottstown).

Link:
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0565/D.0565.200304160011.html

The initial IR£60m grant given to the GAA (in 2001) towards the Croke Park redevelopment was contingent on the facilities being available for the Special Olympics.

In addition to Euro 110 million of exchequer funding, the GAA also received funding from the National Lottery.

Please check your facts before castigating others who are discussing matters here.......

Richiethehurler

Get it right muppet - heres the GAA's report:

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=43562

LFCFan

the bigotry angle to the whole debate comes from the likes of people ringing into radio stations giving out about the chance of 'God save the Queen' being sung at Croker or the English flag etc etc. Thankfully the GAA have finally moved forward and see the benefits of renting Croker.

I'd doubt there would be fixture congestion and can anyone seriously see the GAA not having games like Meath v Dublin in Croker? The fixtures for the Championship are always done way in advance so the stadium won't be available on those dates, simple!

Richiethehurler

no - the fixtures are not done way in advance any more - not with the all-ireland series around these days - they dont know where to play matches because sometimes they dont know who'll be playing each other because the draw only takes place the week previous, after the all-ireland series matches have been played. - in the championship they do have dates set - but what if theres a draw.

The_Conductor

Richiethehurler wrote:

Get it right muppet - heres the GAA's report:

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=43562

Reported for insulting behaviour. I do not appreciate being called a muppet. I gave valid references to reliable sources- whereas you are quoting an organ of your own (not sure whether its official or not).
The links I provided were from the Oireachtas and RTE.
Oddly enough I wonder which is less likely to have the cavalier partisan attitudes towards reporting of information....

MG

LFCFan wrote:

I'd doubt there would be fixture congestion and can anyone seriously see the GAA not having games like Meath v Dublin in Croker? The fixtures for the Championship are always done way in advance so the stadium won't be available on those dates, simple!

The big GAA games which require Croker are virtually all in the summer, while the big Soccer games are in winter and midweek, while Rugby would need the stadium only for the 6N in spring and the Autumn int'ls so there may not be that many conflicts.

Well done to the GAA for opeing up the stadium but I still can't stand the monoply on Irishness a minority hardcore in the GAA seem to believe in. Nor do I believe in the "enormous good the GAA has done for this country" [copyright 1884]. I'd love to hear one journalist brave enough to speak about the enormous damage they did to the country.

At least, times are changing a little and well done especially to Sean Kelly.

Richiethehurler

what i have given you is a complete breakdown of where the money came from - what you have given is how much money was given. both add up to the same amount - but you seem to think that all of that money was given by the taxpayer, when it was a combination of the taxpayer and the lotto, and only a small percentage (5.85 percent of the total cost), and then you proceed to try and say that my sources are unreliable. That was from the gaas yearly financial report. There is nothing in your web pages which indicates the actual source of the money - its just from the government.

And i apologise for the muppet thing - didnt mean any real offence by it.

Richiethehurler

i gotta ask - what enormous damage did the gaa do to this country.

Peace

Richiethehurler wrote:

i gotta ask - what enormous damage did the gaa do to this country.

ditto.

MG, please elaborate. I'm pretty ignorant of irish history, so explain it like i'm a 4 year old.

Richiethehurler

and all the important soccer matches arent midweek as far as i know - i can understand that during the soccer season matches are midweek - but i seem to remember one ireland v holland match, which knocked holland out of qualifying for the wc that was at the weekend, on a gaa weekend as well.