The ever expanding Commuter Belt.

Dub13

So were do you commute from....or were do you know people commute from...?I work with a chap who drives into Dublin city center from ballyjamesduff Cavan :eek:

Thank god I am only 15min to the City.

jesus_thats_gre

I cannot understand how people can commute such distances. What the is the point of putting yourself under so much stress.

I am from Dundalk and have considered commuting to Leopardstown. My hours in work are strange and will pretty much always miss rush hour traffic yet I cannot bring myself to do it.. At the mo, live 4 minutes from work and 25 minutes from town on the Luas

StupidLikeAFox

i live in kildare. enough said

Adam

Dub13 wrote:

So were do you commute from....or were do you know people commute from...?I work with a chap who drives into Dublin city center from ballyjamesduff Cavan :eek:

Thank god I am only 15min to the City.

On that note, Virginia is the fastest growing town in the country, its becoming a mini Dublin there's so many people moving up there! Lived in Ballyjamesduff myself for 4 years, my dad did the same commute for quite a while!

nlgbbbblth

I used commute from Newbridge to Blackrock. Train, bus and DART.
Thankfully got a job in Naas so it's a lot better.

Know a guy who commutes from Thurles to Seapoint every day - on public transport.

Wertz

I know plenty that travel from Belfast and other big towns in NI to Dublin 5/6 days of the week.
Not really commuting as such....in the construction and trades sector, you go where the work is....and for the most part, that's Dublin.

Pet

Wertz wrote:

I know plenty that travel from Belfast and other big towns in NI to Dublin 5/6 days of the week.
Not really commuting as such....in the construction and trades sector, you go where the work is....and for the most part, that's Dublin.

Ugh, the wasted energy..

the_syco

One hour bus or train trip into Dublin.

Why not live in Dublin? I like FRESH AIR. Oh yes! Its not a mythical thing. It does exist! Just get the fúdge out of Dublin, tbh.

Also, I wanna buy a house. Carlow looks good. Some new houses are still below 200,000! Here in North/East Kildare, a new house is @ least 300,000.

bender

live in the city centre and commute to Mulhuddart... have lads here at work.. whom commute from wicklow and carlow

Vokes

Aye, i commute from Wicklow to Glasnevin (1.5 hrs)....

Why? For the same reason as the_syco said above - fresh air + no noise pollution + beach nearby + etc...
Rent is also too expensive in the city.

RuggieBear

15mins....walking slowly: Grand Canal to Trinity

Tobias Greeshman

15 mins and im in work (if I walk slowly), If I drive probably under 2 minutes. I have a friend that commutes from carlow to city-centre he's up at 5 in the morning and doesn't get home until nearly 8 at night.

windowgazer

I know a girl who commutes from Birr to Dublin city centre each day. Drives, then train from tullamore. God that's not a life.
I only have to tackle a 40 minute walk/dart/walk journey each day.

petes

Its a bitch getting in to work in the morning. I live round about 1 and a half minutes walk from work (I am a lazy bastard)

30 Minute Cycle into town (Rathfarnham => Trinity)
45 Mins home though. Stupid slope.

trotter_inc

I used to commute from Balbriggan - took about an hour each way - bloody nightmare on the M50!!

Living in Rathmines now and its just 15 mins to work

seamus

Moved from AH

MorningStar

All the people who decide to live out of the city and commute in by car do everybody a disservice. So they can have fresh air they make everbody in the city have to deal with their polution. The reason Dublin is full of cars is because people move out to places without any public transport so they have to use a car. There are a few consolations. As time goes on your journeys will keep taking longer and my house price will go up at a faster rate than yours. I also have an extra day a week in comparison due to a low travel time (15min cycle). Petrol will only get more expensive over time and eventually that will have real effect on your income.

MrPudding

MorningStar wrote:

All the people who decide to live out of the city and commute in by car do everybody a disservice.

Oh. So all the people that live outside Dublin do it so they can have fresh air and do a disservice to the people that live in Dublin. That explains it. I actually thought it was because they couldn't afford a house anywhere else and couldn't get a job where they live. Inconsiderate bastards.

MrP

enterprise

Milltown to City Centre on the Tram: 12 minutes.

Another 5 minute walk to College! Tis great!

dermot_sheehan

45-60 minute cycle (depending on headwind),

from Howth to Tcd.

cyclopath2001

By bicycle, Clontarf-Kilmainham, 40 minutes.

Government wants me to move to Kildare & stop causing traffic problems....

MrPudding

For those of you that cycle. Would I be right in thinking there is very little variance in your commute times? I kind of presume that unlike a car commuter your journey times stay more or less the same regardless of traffic, would this be right? Does the weather have any effect on times, other than a really strong headwind I mean?

MrP

cyclopath2001

Wind can have an effect (maybe 5-10 minutes), especially on the coastal cycle track.

Traffic has an effect too as the most popular roads in the city have inadequate cycle facilities, for example, Amiens Street & along the city quays.

But, mostly, the journey times are constant & reliable.

MorningStar

MrPudding wrote:

Oh. So all the people that live outside Dublin do it so they can have fresh air and do a disservice to the people that live in Dublin. That explains it. I actually thought it was because they couldn't afford a house anywhere else and couldn't get a job where they live. Inconsiderate bastards.

MrP

It's pretty simplistic to think the only reason people move outside Dublin is cost. People have already stated in this thread they moved out because of the environment. Most of the people I know who commute large distances didn't buy purely on prrice. They could easily afford to live close to Dublin but they opted for larger newer houses. By no means is everybody living in the new estates there just because they couldn't afford a house closer to Dublin. I would say the majority weighed all things they thought about up and decided. Many of them didn't think about traffic getting worse, schools, local corner shops, cars being replaced sooner etc... Many of them complain about the lack of facilities now . A small house close to all the facilities is worth more than a larger house without facilities. Many people will go and have gone for the larger house. They now also want the facilities. People go on the radio constantly complaining about the school not being big enough. The government should have done something but any person with a brain could have seen that was not going to happen. Not completely the individuals fault but they at least should take some responsibilities for their own choices and situation. The commuter belt is getting larger because people decide to move further out. The government aren't forcing them there the people are deciding to move out. The comuter belt is being created by people deciding a one bed appartment is not worth the 3 bed semi and a two hour commute not house it's not the cost of the home but the percieved value.

A Dub in Glasgo

MorningStar wrote:

The comuter belt is being created by people deciding a one bed appartment is not worth the 3 bed semi and a two hour commute not house it's not the cost of the home but the percieved value.

Some valid points in your post but the portion posted above is tripe. You seem to forget people with families. Take a family with 2 or 3 kids:

Choice 1: Buy a 1 bedroom apartment within reasonable distance of where you work. Not realistic or practical as it is actually too small

Choice 2: Buy a 3 bedroom property within reasonable distance of where you work. Not realistic or practical as it is actually too expensive.

Choice 3: Buy a 3 bedroom property where you can afford and commute. Not ideal but needs to be done.

Choice 4: Buy a 3 bedroom property where you can afford and try and get a similar job locally. Excellent if you can get the job.

MT

I think this thread ties in well with the decision by the government to ease the planning regs on one-off houses in the countryside. This increasing feature of settlement patterns in Ireland is the cause of too major problems – the unsightly suburbanisation of previously unspoilt countryside and extensive and unsustainable sprawl that’s difficult to service. Ever lengthening commute times are a part of that second consequence.

The fact that such a pretty pass has been reached is due to a head on collision between two broad interest groups. On the one side you’ve the environmental lobby, architectural and rural aesthetes, An Taisce, etc. They seem to favour the ludicrous idea that there should be no more green-field building anywhere ever again. Presumably this would involve a total ban on all future ribbon development and one-off houses. Of course, with Ireland’s continuously expanding economy and population such a course of action would be disastrous.

On the other side of the argument you’ve got the rest of us – ordinary people. We too would like to see the countryside preserved but are faced with the reality of having to live somewhere. Most of us don’t want to live in the crammed apartments or pokey brown field sites that the other group has envisaged for us. What most Irish people want – particularly if they plan on having a family – is a nice spacious house with sizeable grounds/garden and some privacy. The problem is that apartments or cramped housing estates (the developer planned pack ‘em in and make a mint version) don’t allow for this type of living. How unearth do you build an extension in a flat? So the result is that people are left in ever increasing numbers to pursue the only option that will meet their needs – the isolated one-off house.

In my view, the government could have went for a planning compromise that would have ended this phenomenon of one-off house building and yet provided for the type of homes people wish to live in. Ban the one-offs but face down the green/conservation lobby over ribbon development. In doing so, increase dramatically the area per house in future housing estates giving people something approaching the space and privacy they might enjoy in a rural stand alone. I’m thinking of the American style spacious and often semi-forested suburb here. True, such developments would not stem urban sprawl, indeed around towns and cities they’d increase it but they would do far less damage to scenic areas and far away virgin countryside than the current one-off bungalow blitz. It would be a compromise.

All sides in this argument will have to accept at some point that if you force people to make a stark choice between an apartment or high-density housing estate on the one hand and a spacious one-off on the other they’ll mostly choose the latter. The solution lies somewhere in between with expansive, low-density suburbs. Bring the country to the city so to speak!

antoinolachtnai

First, it isn't true to say that we absolutely need one-off housing. If you were to rezone the land around towns, you could provide plenty of houses. You could also increase the density by building a storey higher.

Low-density suburbs are clearly better than ribbon development.

Still, there are serious problems. One of the big ones is transport and amenities. It's difficult to provide amenities (shops, schools) within walking distance in such a spread-out area. It's also difficult to run public transport economically. As a result, the whole thing becomes very car-dependent.

In practice, car-dependency makes the area a lot less family-friendly. Young people and old people who don't have the use of a car are basically stranded, socially and economically.

Sometimes a case is made that there has been a tradition of one-off housing in Ireland and that that is the historical pattern. If you investigate it, this isn't really true. There was certainly one-off housing, but not as we understand it today.

Although the houses were quite spread out, the actual housing units were much more high-density. What would now be considered a quaint two-bedroom cottage would have been occupied by 11 or 12 people, and this pattern continued in Ireland until at least the late 1950's.

As you say there obviously has to be some compromise. What I would suggest (and this is just an idea) is developments of a few hundred homes (houses and apartments) quite densely grouped together in rural areas, which would be within minutes walk of the countryside, but which would have enough density to make limited services and public transport feasible.

Obviously, the buildings would have to be designed to give users the space, privacy and views they needed. But it could all be done with a bit of thought.

Victor

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Sometimes a case is made that there has been a tradition of one-off housing in Ireland and that that is the historical pattern. If you investigate it, this isn't really true. There was certainly one-off housing, but not as we understand it today.

There was also the tradition of "clachán"s - clustered houses.

skywalker_208

MorningStar wrote:

All the people who decide to live out of the city and commute in by car do everybody a disservice. So they can have fresh air they make everbody in the city have to deal with their polution. The reason Dublin is full of cars is because people move out to places without any public transport so they have to use a car. .

I would have thought that driving kids to school was a greater factor to the congestion than people that actually need to drive to work.. how many cars do you see between 8 and 9am with one child in them? to a school that is 5 or 10 mins away... funny how there is F all traffic problems during the summer months...

And people wouldnt drive if there was a decent public transport system anyway for commuters...

Macy

I think a factor the Government, and others, have to consider is the possibilities of people e-working. I would love to not have my daily commute into work. Unfortunately the Government has put a break on civil and public servants e-working in some vain effort to get decentralisation to work. After numerous successful pilot projects, these are being rolled back.

On the housing - in most of the commuter belt, you need to be local to get planning permission. At least 15 years in most cases. The rants about one off houses are just another example of city dwellers trying to dictate to country dwellers. Country people have always built close to their family home, the fact that far fewer now have to emigrate is the main difference in recent years. You'd swear this is a bad thing?