Evolution V Creationism

shellspeare

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution or do you believe that God created all forms of life simultaneously and that we did not evolve from lower life forms?

spyro_2001ie

I belive in the Philosphy forum

theCzar

1) this is hardly the place for such things,

2) but if you must know, i created all life, it was accident, and i'm still clearing up the mess. dinosaurs took fookin' billions of years to get rid of, but the human race seems like it will be a lot easier...

WhiteWashMan

shellspeare wrote:

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution or do you believe that God created all forms of life simultaneously and that we did not evolve from lower life forms?

darwins theory was flawed, but is still a little bit more convincing than some 'higher life form' that no one has ever seen, and have no proof of, suddenly decided to make a bunch of people on a planet inthe middle of nowhere.

what do you think?

Gordon

I think that I'm making everything up in my head. Nothing really exists except my imagination.

GuanYin

shellspeare wrote:

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution or do you believe that God created all forms of life simultaneously and that we did not evolve from lower life forms?

Exactly how do you define lower lifeform?

WhiteWashMan

psi wrote:

Exactly how do you define lower lifeform?

anyone registered on boards after say, a year ago?

Rabies

phew... safe


Darwin's theory helps understand and answer most of the questions but some god doing it all is just crazy talk.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Gordon

/brain implodes

Piste

www.truthforyouth.com has it all........;)

stuey

what a topic shellspeare!!

i no longer believe in "god the creator of all", the church have changed what they have said about how the world was created so many times that I have gotten to the stage where I no longer believe them

I believe some what in Darwin, but if we all evolved from single cell lifeforms where did that first life form come from?

THe whole debate of where do we come from really bugs me, what does everybody else think? What are your views?



just thinkin is this a bit to serious for after hours!!

Hobbes

Check this out..

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/walkthrough/

Apprantly Adam created the T-Rex. Using DNA from a fly I guess. Its all in room 19.

Horsefumbler

well I want to believe in creationism but I'm afraid the evidence for evolution is compelling...

Memnoch

unfortunately as scientific theories go, evolution is probably one of the weakest, and one that is easiest to pick holes with.

Creationism however isn't a theory, merely blind belief. But religious fanatics worldwide have found in evolution a weakness in the scientific armor and try their best to use it to descredit the scientific method as a whole because it impedes their implementation of blind ignorance upon themselves and everyone else.

Capt'n Midnight

God created all forms of life simultaneously with pre-arranged memories about 5 minutes ago.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

ExOffender

shellspeare wrote:

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution...?

[ponceyvoice]Well, actually the question is a little restricting...[/ponceyvoice] there are theories of evolution other than Darwin's. But yes I believe it anyway. Those who insist it's 'a theory not a fact' are clutching at straws. Yes, evolution is a theory. And Genesis is a fairy tale.

mycroft

Gordon wrote:

I think that I'm making everything up in my head. Nothing really exists except my imagination.

Which beggars the question why would invent White Wash Man? Do you hate yourself?

Shabadu

Einstein said 'Reality is the belief held by the imagination.' This still doesn't excuse people who honestly believe in creationism.

Memnoch

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Well i'd say that the theory of evolution is probably the closest thing we have to a plausible explanation at the moment. However I believe that our knowledge is still limited and I'm open to newer or even modified older, more concrete theories that don't leave strings dangling around the place.

So, the short answer to your question is..... I don't know, i'm still in the process of making up my mind, and that may take a while.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight

Memnoch wrote:

I'm open to newer or even modified older, more concrete theories that don't leave strings dangling around the place.

So you probably wouldn't want anything to do with this

Shabadu

Mercury_Tilt wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Space Whale, tbh

bounty

Hobbes wrote:

Check this out..

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/walkthrough/

Apprantly Adam created the T-Rex. Using DNA from a fly I guess. Its all in room 19.

Heres a really good debate on a talk radio show, with the head of a creationalist church who build that museum and some well informed call in guests

http://www.infidelguy.com/demo/infidelguy.com_hovind_vs_ig.mp3


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elivsvonchiaing

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

Space Whale, tbh

Even creationism brings up less bile than that sort of theory... it is bollix - but has antiquity in its favour! Space whale :rolleyes: ... aw go ahead and stir it! makes thread more interesting...

Doper Than U

Well, actually the question is a little restricting... there are theories of evolution other than Darwin's

Agreed. It's evolution for me. I've yet to see a credible alternative. Also... the creationist theory doesn't exactly gel with the undisputable existence of dinosaurs.

SoupyNorman

Look at the bigger picture people, what the hell created the universe we live in now(i know about the 'big bang theory') but what was here b4. its mind boggling to even fathom, you cant just say there was nothing? evoultion and creationism could easily both be true.

what 'IF' a higher being did make the universe, the earth simply found itself in the right place with the right exact conditions necessary to start off with that single cell we all evolved from.

i'd like to believe if you could get to the end of 'space' and travel faster then its expanding thereby leaving space, you could meet up with who/whatever is responsible (or you could and probably would just enter nothingness and die horribly)

po0k

<Jesus> They're fúckin with us Dad, here gimme that Brontosaurus head, let me fúck with them

Memnoch

bravestarr082 wrote:

Look at the bigger picture people, what the hell created the universe we live in now(i know about the 'big bang theory') but what was here b4.

this is often the "theory" that most religious people use to defend creationism. The problem with this theory AND with creationism is that if you think at ALL logically then it's completely self defeating. Let me explain.

Assumption - Universe cannot create itself.
Therefore - Something must have created it.
This something is the "creator".

The PROBLEM with it is, that you are making a huge assumption based on nothing. And that is that, while the universe cannot create itself, the "creator" can. It's a self-defeating paradox.

Either something can exist from nothing, and if it can, then so can the universe, or nothing can exist from nothing, in which case neither can the creator.

So if god made the universe, then who made god?
and if god was "just there" then why can the universe not be so?

the real answer to all these questions, is WE DON'T KNOW, and to claim so otherwise is foolish. (but creationists tend to often do this, while most evolutionists will accept that while it's a good theory, it's still not concrete enough to be accepted as fact.)

SoupyNorman

Memnoch wrote:

So if god made the universe, then who made god?
and if god was "just there" then why can the universe not be so?

the real answer to all these questions, is WE DON'T KNOW, and to claim so otherwise is foolish. (but creationists tend to often do this, while most evolutionists will accept that while it's a good theory, it's still not concrete enough to be accepted as fact.)

i agree.

for all we know we, our entire universe could be in a petri dish in someone's hands. we only see size, physics from our point of view.

scientists have suggested that parallel universes could exist (via blackholes for instance) with different laws of physics, worlds that if existed we could never visit as even a miniscule change in our laws of physics would vapourise us!

bounty

bravestarr082 wrote:

Look at the bigger picture people, what the hell created the universe we live in now(i know about the 'big bang theory') but what was here b4. its mind boggling to even fathom, you cant just say there was nothing? evoultion and creationism could easily both be true.

creationalism is wrong because its answer to every question is "god did it", which is infinite answers, and therefore no answer at all

bravestarr082 wrote:

what 'IF' a higher being did make the universe, the earth simply found itself in the right place with the right exact conditions necessary to start off with that single cell we all evolved from.

there is over 100 billion x 100 billion systems, the odds are there is millions of planets with the right conditions for life

bravestarr082 wrote:

i'd like to believe if you could get to the end of 'space' and travel faster then its expanding thereby leaving space, you could meet up with who/whatever is responsible (or you could and probably would just enter nothingness and die horribly)

i think the first step to understanding what the creator is, is to prevent ourselfs from blowing the planet up. the next step is to become immortal, after that its inevitable

SoupyNorman

there is over 100 billion x 100 billion systems, the odds are there is millions of planets with the right conditions for life

that is my favourite statistic about space.

i believe more in the evolution theory then the creation side but at the end of it all i think there is something beyond our comprehension wether its a god or a devil or ALF!

Calibos

bounty wrote:

Heres a really good debate on a talk radio show, with the head of a creationalist church who build that museum and some well informed call in guests

http://www.infidelguy.com/demo/infidelguy.com_hovind_vs_ig.mp3


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Damn You Sir!! I went to bed 2 hours later than I intended. :D

Great Stuff!

Branoic

I believe in the theory of evolution. I'm relucant to call it "Darwin's Theory of Evolution" because its advanced quite a bit since the time of Darwin. That's the problem with most Creationists. In their search to debunk evolution they look no further than Darwin and actually ignore the theory and research of the modern age. Calling modern evolution theory "Darwin's Theory" is like refusing to fly because the Wright Brothers' plane looked a bit dodgy.

Memnoch

that radio show is brilliant, one of the callers totally shows how this kent guy is a liar.

but it's not surprising, no matter how intelligent, whenever creationists try to debunk science is how they take things out of context and misrepresent the facts to make their arguements. Some are smarter and better at doing it than others like the guy in the radio show but at the end he was totally caught lying.

Trojan

This is unAmerican talk right here.

skywalker

Kingsize

why does it have to be one or the other?
we're probably all jsut characters in a very bad mini series

karlh

Gordon wrote:

I think that I'm making everything up in my head. Nothing really exists except my imagination.

that means you created Chris DeBurgh.

get 'im scouts! :mad:

Gordon

karlh wrote:

that means you created Chris DeBurgh.

get 'im scouts! :mad:

Yes this is true and I'm sorry.

But I also created the scouts so I will get them to come over to your place and kill you quickly with their origami.

Moriarty

bounty wrote:

http://www.infidelguy.com/demo/infidelguy.com_hovind_vs_ig.mp3

Anyone want to mirror this? I'm getting a 404 and it looks like you need to pay to grab it from the site..?

bounty

save target as

its one of the free shows on the front page

ctrl + f for "Hovind" on www.infidelguy.com

SoupyNorman

im listening to it now....i had no problemos!

Catsmokinpot

im sure we can all agree that we dont have a clue whats going on

i believe in evolution, but i also believe in god. all you people that say you dont believe in god and frown upon me. i say show me some proof that god doesnt exist! i believe in science and i believe that only through science we will learn more about the world around us but, dont think any amount of science can prove weather or not god exists and i also think arguing about weather or not god exists or 'who's god is the right one?' is ultimately pointless

bounty wrote:

creationalism is wrong because its answer to every question is "god did it", which is infinite answers, and therefore no answer at all

you cant say its wrong because you have no proof

bounty wrote:

there is over 100 billion x 100 billion systems, the odds are there is millions of planets with the right conditions for life

thats right there are, its selfish to believe that we are the only people in the entire universe again that doesnt even suggest that god doesnt exist only that there possibly are other forms of life.

this is exactly what i believe:

when they say god created the universe in 7 days in the bible, it also says in the bible that a day to god is like a thousand years. obviously since people in the olden days had no idea how much time we actually were here and a thousand years seemed an accurate and fathomable representation of a seriously long time

so god created the universe he started the big bang the universe started expanding, life arrived in this part of the galaxy the universe keeps expanding untill eventually some say its going to collapse in on itself, energy will be transformed back in to matter and the big bang will start all over again.

the only reason god put us here was to experience the universe he created because if we didnt experience the universe their would be no point in it even existing

to semi-quote the simpsons

Lisa: if a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound?
Bart: no
Lisa: How can sound exist if their is no-one there to hear it?

bounty

you cant say its wrong because you have no proof

The arguement is evolution versus creationism. On the one hand we have whole librarys and museums full of evidence supporting evolution. And on the other hand we have the stupid infinite answers trick that "god did it".

thats right there are, its selfish to believe that we are the only people in the entire universe again that doesnt even suggest that god doesnt exist only that there possibly are other forms of life.

God is undefined, there is zero evidence about the creator of the universe. No can say with any confidence, anything about it.

Hobbes

Catsmokinpot wrote:

you cant say its wrong because you have no proof

You can't say its right either because you have no proof. What is the point you are getting at?

Generally it is up to the person to make the accusation to prove it.

so god created the universe he started the big bang the universe started...

So who created god then?

to semi-quote the simpsons

Actually it is from Zen.

Doper Than U

Lisa: if a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound?
Bart: no
Lisa: How can sound exist if there is no-one there to hear it?

the only reason god put us here was to experience the universe he created because if we didnt experience the universe there would be no point in it even existing

Well it may be Zen, but it's BS. The sound exists whether we are there to hear it or not. Noise was not created for humanity alone.... animals also have ears. That's if you even believe that noise was "created" at all. Noise was here first, we developed ears to take advantage of it. Not all "noise" (vibrations) is "heard" either (ultrasound), and not all animals use/hear/experience noise the same way (snakes, bats, dogs, humans.. etc etc).

Memnoch

well i have to say that after listening to the radio talk show i'm now convinced in favor of evolutionism, though I was kinda leaning that way already. What really did it for me was the guy at the end calling in from belfast who really knew what he was talking about and as he pointed out, evolution is a theory that has been practically applied to modern day applications to change and improve our lives for the better. It's actually produced something. And scientific theories that are false or don't hold true, rarely produce anything of actual value.

ExOffender

Catsmokinpot wrote:

all you people that say you dont believe in god and frown upon me. i say show me some proof that god doesnt exist!

Posit a universe-creator, the archetypal Prime Progenitor, the Unmoved Mover, God Almighty and All-powerful Etc. If this 'God' is omnipotent, can it create a really heavy rock? Surely. Can it lift rocks, too? Sure. Even really heavy ones. So: can this God create a rock that's too heavy for it to lift? Because if that's the case, this God cannot be all-powerful (can't lift the rock), and if it's not the case, this God cannot be all-powerful (can't create the too-heavy rock). So omnipotence, and hence God, (from the limited perspective of formal logic) cannot exist. This is the 'irresistible force v. immovable object' debate, and the two cannot exist in the same universe since, by definition, the existence of one negates the existence of the other.

when they say god created the universe in 7 days in the bible...

You've made the classic 'rookie mistake' here, of divorcing yourself from the narrative truth-claim of the text, the literal truth of six days to create the universe, without managing to let go of the idea that the Bible in some way reflects the reality of what for want of a better word I must call 'creation'. It's pointless to try and rationalise the superstitious gibberish of Genesis. It's a wonderful text from an anthropological and sociological point of view, it's a valuable cultural entity, but it's also completely made-up. I can say this with absolute confidence (former theology student). Creationism is not an indefensible theory, but you're far better off leaving the Bible out of it, IMHO. How did the people who wrote the Bible know all this stuff to write it down in the first place?

the only reason god put us here was to experience the universe he created because if we didnt experience the universe their would be no point in it even existing

And the point of our experiencing it is...?

On the God question, I just can't hack the notion of some happy magician in the sky who'll reward us with our every wish after we die, as long as we're 'good' down here. Like Santa Claus writ large. It really is like an imaginary friend for adults. I don't completely rule out the theory of a creator god, the sort of 'watchmaker' idea, set it all up and then bugger off, but the idea of an interested god, one that is familiar with us all and directly concerned with each of us? I'll eat vegetables and I'll eat meat, but there is some s*** I will not eat, as ee cummings once wrote.

condra

Im sorry but I think religion is unreasonable.

Evolution is all around us.

Lets not be retrogressive like those stupid fcuking religously fanatical middle class white trash americans who have insisted that the theory of evolution not be thought in schools as fact.

It is so so sad to see reason and logic be thrown out the window with such ignorant brainwashed enthusiasm.

I believe we should have a secular state. Religion should have nothing to do with politics. And our children should have the right to be fully and roundly educated as they grow up without religous or political beliefs being forced upon them.