Damn mortgages!!!

MorningStar

Victor wrote:

What about the BMW-driving, Shiraz-drinking, anti-social elements?

I think you are grapsing at straws.

What am grasping at straws for?

I am on the property ladder and price increases just really suit me. I was commenting on possible other elements that may reduce house prices. You are defending somebody who is suggesting breaking the law to get a house because house prices won't drop.
There are many possible local price factors I mentioned two but one that I probably should have mentioned was a new local building or zoning. THere are tons of possible structures that people believe effect their hous prices such as large appartment block,incinirators, prison, dump etc...
Negative equity is possible that's all. There could be a a national price drop. Over streching yourself to buy a house is a risk not a dead cert.

Saruman

OK update time.. I got my credit union loan, Parents went gaurantor for me. I signed the cheque to my mom and told her to put it in her account. The deposit with be signed over as a "GIFT" when needed. That seemed smartest thing to do to me. This was always my plan, i was just ranting about the need to do it

Im currently getting together all the paperwork for mortgage company. Should not have a problem im hoping!!
All going well i will be moving in by June

lomb

can i ask what and where u are buying for about 200, there doesnt seem to b much around

Saruman

Not in Dublin!! Go anywhere outside of Dublin and you will be fine.. Offaly or meath, westmeath, louth etc etc.

In fact I got a call today from an estate agent telling me that Carrickhall in Edenderry is opening the next phase, i was waiting for that but this house came up so im going with that instead!

Drogheda or anywhere along the M1 is a great place for transport as its so fast to drive on the M1 into Dublin, faster than some parts of the city!

lomb

well whatever about drogheda or suberbs, edenderry is a long way from the city centre. we live near newlands cross and my mum works in edenderry and it takes her a good hour to get there against the traffic. to the city centre with the traffic every morning u would be looking at 2+hours. that mean getting up at 6 am and being home at 8 every night.
in fact i had to go out there recently to collect my mums crashed car and quite frankly i dont know how she does it. the roads are attrocious, and she has written off 2 cars in very bad accidents , and crashed a third and numerous side mirror breakages at high speeds as the roads are narrow. all this and she is a slow and careful driver!one guy came flying around a bend at 60 on the wrong side of the road and head on crashed into my mum doing 20mph!
also traffic has gotten to be a crawl up to kill church, at peak times.

also the m50 'tax' on the roadblock if u choose north dublin will hit u for 800 a year so figure that into ur calculations and more if your wife commutes.

MorningStar

Loads of people don't really consider the commute in fulll. Not only is it travel time but it the expensive of a car that needs to be more powerful and replaced regularly. I read a study that every 20 minutes spent comutting beyond 40 minutes you effectively lose an hour personal/family time.

There are a load of people commuting from Cavan on a daily basis. Somebody told me it was because their is an estate agent in Donaghmede Shopping Centre who deals in Cavan property.

Bogger77

lomb wrote:

in fact i had to go out there recently to collect my mums crashed car and quite frankly i dont know how she does it. the roads are attrocious, and she has written off 2 cars in very bad accidents , and crashed a third and numerous side mirror breakages at high speeds as the roads are narrow. all this and she is a slow and careful driver!one guy came flying around a bend at 60 on the wrong side of the road and head on crashed into my mum doing 20mph!

If she's having this many crashes on that section of road, either a) she's a dangerous driver or b) she should consider another route.

lomb wrote:

also traffic has gotten to be a crawl up to kill church, at peak times.

Going to/from Endenderry to any part of Dublin north of the N7, you would not be traveling in via Kill.

An aside, I've commuted to Dublin City center from near Birr for over 9months (77miles each way, exact same to go up the n7/M7 or n6/n/m4), it's doable, and it's definitely worth doing, rather than pay over the odds in Dublin. Quality of Life, not much during the week, great at weekends.

Bogger77

MorningStar wrote:

Loads of people don't really consider the commute in fulll. Not only is it travel time but it the expensive of a car that needs to be more powerful and replaced regularly. I read a study that every 20 minutes spent comutting beyond 40 minutes you effectively lose an hour personal/family time.

There are a load of people commuting from Cavan on a daily basis. Somebody told me it was because their is an estate agent in Donaghmede Shopping Centre who deals in Cavan property.

the cost to replace the commuting car every 3 years, plus petrol and servicing, (you're driving the car into the ground, re-sale value doesn't come into it), is still makes it worth while, not perhaps if there are both members of a couple commuting at different times,hence two cars. For example, spening 5000euro a year on travel, plus 8K every 5years on a replacement car, it'd still take a long time to come close to the cost of living in Dublin (20 years+).

Of course, the ideal is if both people can get jobs with high enough salaries in Dublin to afford to live in Dublin, or can both get jobs local to where they live. unfortunately, in my case, my skills are only of use to major corporations based in Dublin for example. And when I can look at getting a 4 bedroom semi-d house for under 170K euro in my home area, a short stroll/stagger from shops, pubs, church etc, and then look at paying 400k+ for a similar house in a non descript estate in Dublin, where I'd have to drive to go to the local over priced Spar. Which would you pick?

gamer

I think theres loads of houses going in blanchardstown round 250k,,private estates ten years old ,i dont know where ur getting 400k from,unless u are only looking at houses on the south side of dublin,i think ur exagerrating to make your point .theres houses in coolock going for 230k within walking distance of a shopping centre and aldi 100 yards away.theres loads of estates in dublin close to supermarkets shops,but i understand some people dont wanna live in large estates ,living in a smallish town in country is a better environment for bringing up kids,less crime,and more friendly,probably better quality of life if u have a good wage.

MorningStar

Bogger77 wrote:

the cost to replace the commuting car every 3 years, plus petrol and servicing, (you're driving the car into the ground, re-sale value doesn't come into it), is still makes it worth while, not perhaps if there are both members of a couple commuting at different times,hence two cars. For example, spening 5000euro a year on travel, plus 8K every 5years on a replacement car, it'd still take a long time to come close to the cost of living in Dublin (20 years+).

And when I can look at getting a 4 bedroom semi-d house for under 170K euro in my home area, a short stroll/stagger from shops, pubs, church etc, and then look at paying 400k+ for a similar house in a non descript estate in Dublin, where I'd have to drive to go to the local over priced Spar. Which would you pick?

I guess we are both assuming some details. As far as I can tell the price of running a car is just going to keep going up. Petrol is just simply running out and emmisions have to be reduced so plans for higher fuel taxes are well underway in the long term.
The cost of living in Dublin has been researched to not be as vast as peeple thought. Insurance etc... are more expensive but goods apparently aren't due mostly to the fact 1/3 of imported goods come through Dublin and the big chains are located here. There is also better choice in Dublin.
If your commute is 2 hours each way compared a bad Dublin commute of 1 hour each way (mine is 15 mins). It is the same as doing an extra day and half a week of work. That's about 70 days a year (with days off considered), a lot more than your holidays. As every single scrap of land is being built on around Dublin the commute times will just increase as the commuters do.
I wouldn't move into any place if I had to drive to the local Spar. I don't know about you but I don't need a 4 bed house. Unless you have 3 kids I don't think many people really need it either. You do not have to pay €400k+ to buy in Dublin but people do decide for the price of a 1 bed appartment that
they would prefer a 4 bed house.
That's fine but it is a decission, a choice etc.. The problem is people make this choice and the areas outside Dublin don't have enough services and then they complain! The reason Dublin prices are more is because not just the commute it is all the services too.
I have a lot of friends that bought further out due to house size price ratio (it's very rarely just price). They do nothing but complain about their commute and lack of services. I was able to upgrade in Dublin but my friends can now only upgrade to the place I moved up from. The reason being house prices rise higher closer to Dublin.
I see your point and I might do the same but my point is people don't fully consider ALL the aspects of buying far out and commuting to the city. It's not just the cost of your house and car replacement.

Bogger77

gamer wrote:

I think theres loads of houses going in blanchardstown round 250k,,private estates ten years old ,i dont know where ur getting 400k from,unless u are only looking at houses on the south side of dublin,i think ur exagerrating to make your point .theres houses in coolock going for 230k within walking distance of a shopping centre and aldi 100 yards away.theres loads of estates in dublin close to supermarkets shops,but i understand some people dont wanna live in large estates ,living in a smallish town in country is a better environment for bringing up kids,less crime,and more friendly,probably better quality of life if u have a good wage.

A house I'd like to live in, with quality of life I want to experience.

I'd not buy in Coolock or Blanch, purely based on the surrounding area, such as Darndale.

Yes, I'd be comparing nice quite area of South Dublin, near a luas or dart stop. Close to amenities and the like. Show me a newly built estate in a good area, with reasonably low housing density for less than 400K, Semi D or Detached houses siliar in spec to this house . This house is 15mins walk from the train station in Tullamore, so it'd take 1hr 50m on train/luas and walk to be on O'Connell Street. How long would it take from Bray to O'Connell Street

MorningStar

Bogger77 wrote:

A house I'd like to live in, with quality of life I want to experience.

I'd not buy in Coolock or Blanch, purely based on the surrounding area, such as Darndale.

Yes, I'd be comparing nice quite area of South Dublin, near a luas or dart stop. Close to amenities and the like. Show me a newly built estate in a good area, with reasonably low housing density for less than 400K, Semi D or Detached houses siliar in spec to this house . This house is 15mins walk from the train station in Tullamore, so it'd take 1hr 50m on train/luas and walk to be on O'Connell Street. How long would it take from Bray to O'Connell Street

Your choice but have you considered everything? Local school, hospitals, creche, cinemas etc... Your commute time is over 2 hours and do you have to wait around any time due time tables? Bray to O'Connel street I would guess is less than an hour on the DART. What are the areas further up the train line to you like? A friend of mine started commuting by train but within 2 years the train was full before the train reached her stop so she now drives and the trip has increased in time each year.
A friend of mine had a child who needs special care. Guess what there are no facilities in her area so she had to travel large distances untill she moved closer to Dublin again.
It's hard to think of everything but I personally think a 4+hour round trip would effect my quality of life so much that the benifits of a nice house or area would be lost. If I had kids it would mean I would have very little time with them. Kids go to bed early so you might only see them at the weekend, what kind of quality of life is that for a family?
Nice house but do you need 2 bathrooms, 3 beds and 2 reception rooms. I have similar but I really don't need it but the difference is I can afford it close to the city. My first house only had 2 beds 1 bathroom and 1 reception room because it was what I could afford.

Bogger77

Yes, you need x bedrooms, etc. When your investing in a house, get the best you can afford, makes sense? Then if you do wanna move, you've got a good starting point. I wouldnt get myself locked into a 25/30yr loan for it though. I'm from the countyside, I like living there, and I'm more than grown accustomed to no facilities or haing to go 30miles for it. In fact, from my current home, it's 20mile round trip to go to an ATM, 30miles to a 24hr shop, but its a Tesco's.

My idea of quality of life is going to be different from yours, I agree with thought. The people who leave Dublin, move to places like Sallins even, and complain about lack of facilities, public transport etc, What did they expect ?

I drove from Birr to Maynooth, got the 7.10 train to Pearse, got a train around 17.50 back to maynooth, for days when I was starting late. I was lucky, my work day started at 7am so usually zero traffic and no hassle parking, on the road at 4.45 in the morning though, back home for Corrie at 7.30pm. Long day, yes but I preferred it than staying in Dublin. I claimed over 16K miles for 9 months last year!!

To be blunt, you want city facilities, such as good public transport, close by large shops, health service specialities and broadband etc, stay in Dublin or don't complain when you move down to rural leinster

lomb

Bogger77 wrote:

I was lucky, my work day started at 7am so usually zero traffic and no hassle parking, on the road at 4.45 in the morning though, back home for Corrie at 7.30pm.

if u call that lucky then u must be a very very happy person

Bogger77

lomb wrote:

if u call that lucky then u must be a very very happy person

Well for me, it meant I was out of dublin for longer each day than I was in it, I'm not a city person!

lomb

in fairness very few people can sustain getting up at 4 or 5 am, and driving 2 hours each way indefinately so spending 4 hours in a car.
its fine while u are young but as people get older its not so easy.
can i ask what age u are roughly?

LegacyUser

joejoem wrote:

Another post said they had to pay an extra 2% for the solicitor to take there fee's from?

That is not what I aid actually. Let me explain.

Max mortgage usually 92%
Deposit required by Estate Agent - 10%

That makes 102%

You need to provide the 10% for the estate agent (deposit) yourself. Most banks will not allow you to draw down the 2% before the rest to furnish a 10% deposit requirement. Any that do will charge a hefty bridging loan.

So ....
I see house I like for 200,000
Estate agent wants 10% deposit - which is 20,000
I give my solicitor a cheque for 20,000
When the mortgage is drawn down it is 92% of 200,000 = 184,000

The solicitor draws the cheque down for 184,000
He already for 20,000 off you earlier.
That is 204,000 euros.
His fee is say 2,000 - so he owes you 2,000 euro.

Nothing dodgey about it. Mortgage is 82% and deposit is 10%. You have to furnish the deposit yourself.

Saruman

If the commute for me is an hour then i will be happy.. You can drive from one part of Dublin to another in more time!!! Its not that bad. As for the M50, i get that back in expenses so in my case its grand. If the motorway cuts it down to 40 mins commute time then thats only 10 mins more than it takes me to get from Finglas to Palmerstown at peak times!!

And and i have driven the Edenderry road.. its fine!!! Though i did not take the N7! I took the N4 so maybe they are worse.. still 3 bad crashes on the same stretch of road.. does not sound like its the roads at fault especially if she onyl drives at 20 mph as you said.

MorningStar

Bogger77 wrote:

Well for me, it meant I was out of dublin for longer each day than I was in it, I'm not a city person!

You are more of city person than most if you spend 4 hours commuting everyday. You mentioned quality of life but how do you feel about your transport as you spend longer on that than on your house daily? Hours of days-work-lunch-transport-sleep = hour of life> 24-7.5-1-4-8=3.5

It's your choice but you can't realistically say it's quality of life.

Bogger77 wrote:

Yes, you need x bedrooms, etc. When your investing in a house, get the best you can afford, makes sense?

No it doesn't make sense. It's about the value of your house not the amount of bedrooms. Property is always about 3 things location, location, location. Property you live in isn't about investment that is just an element.

lomb

Saruman wrote:

still 3 bad crashes on the same stretch of road.. does not sound like its the roads at fault especially if she onyl drives at 20 mph as you said.

wel ive seen how slow she drives. and it has been someone elses proven fault twice. recently she crashed her car after some guy was overtaking and she came around a bend forceing her to swerve in a ditch hitting a tree. i personally wouldnt have swerved i think. unfortunately it is her fault now so she is loosing her no claims bonus or alot of it anyway.

The_Conductor

Guru Maith Agut wrote:

If they didn't lend above the odds (3 times peoples gross salary, my arse) then the house builders and sellers couldn't higher the prices. It's as simple as that my friends!!

Hmmm- I was offered 6 times principle salary and twice the secondary from BOI. I queried it with their mortgage advisor and was advised that the restrictions had been relaxed. That said I was boring 50% of the property value (parents etc for the rest).

MorningStar

smccarrick wrote:

Hmmm- I was offered 6 times principle salary and twice the secondary from BOI. I queried it with their mortgage advisor and was advised that the restrictions had been relaxed. That said I was boring 50% of the property value (parents etc for the rest).

They will give you more than your own earning power because it's based on circumstances. Bear in mind though if it's only a 50% mortgage the other 50% belongs to the bank if you mess up. The fact they are giving people money like this has caused the current housing problem. A lot of parents can't help or can only help one child so some people are put at a major disadvantage.

Take a poorer family from the likes of Coolock where the ex-corpo house is worth €220k and there are three children. If these children manage to get a salary to match that of somebody from a richer background they are still at a disadvantage from their family money. I am assuming the richer background family can help out their children due a property worth more money and possible investments. It is a possible poverty trap but bear in mind that it is also unlikely somebody from the poorer background will make as much money who is from a richer background.
I don't think housing is a right or that you must own your own house. Ireland has the highest ownership in the world and as we get richer and more like the rest of the world this will change.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/peo_hom_own

Victor

smccarrick wrote:

Hmmm- I was offered 6 times principle salary

I imagine being a civil servant helps this.

The_Conductor

Victor wrote:

I imagine being a civil servant helps this.

I had not joined the civil service at that point- I was a technical specialist for a certain company who will remain nameless......

Yes, job security is a factor that is taken into account- however salaries in the private sector are a lot higher (along with commensurate stress levels......). I took a defacto cut in salaries and benefits of approx. 40% to join the civil service. Paying the monthly bills are a bitch , but at least I have a life now (allegedly- some boards members would dispute this!).

Of more interest to the bank was the fact that I had (over the course of 7 years) managed to save the deposit and a 10% downpayment on the apartment. I wasn't looking for a 92% mortgage. The one thing I forgot was the damn stamp duty- it was a second hand apartment

nlgbbbblth

Guru Maith Agut wrote:

If they didn't lend above the odds (3 times peoples gross salary, my arse) then the house builders and sellers couldn't higher the prices. It's as simple as that my friends!!

smccarrick wrote:

Hmmm- I was offered 6 times principle salary and twice the secondary from BOI. I queried it with their mortgage advisor and was advised that the restrictions had been relaxed. That said I was boring 50% of the property value (parents etc for the rest).

The salary multiple lending principle is GONE.

Banks now look at your Debt Service Ratio. DSR.
The total of your monthly mortage repayment plus other loans (make sure you don't have any) should not exceed 40% of your net monthly income. They will 'stress-test' i.e. see if you could cope with an increase in rates.

For example, if you earn €3,000 a month you should be good for a mortgage of €1,200 a month (allowing for stress test)

Also - there is no obligation to borrow for 'round' terms, 20, 25, 30, 35 years etc
It is possible to get a 29 year mortage or a 27 year one.

Beaner1

Saruman wrote: »

OK update time.. I got my credit union loan, Parents went gaurantor for me. I signed the cheque to my mom and told her to put it in her account. The deposit with be signed over as a "GIFT" when needed. That seemed smartest thing to do to me. This was always my plan, i was just ranting about the need to do it

Im currently getting together all the paperwork for mortgage company. Should not have a problem im hoping!!
All going well i will be moving in by June

I'm just curious. How did that work out for you in the end?

The_Morrigan

Beaner1 wrote: »

I'm just curious. How did that work out for you in the end?

Don't bump zombie threads - it's against the charter.