Damn mortgages!!!

Saruman

I have a house ready to go, just have to put down 5k booking deposit.. thats fine.. thing is i cant get a mortgage easy with my wife as she is a temp.
Either way i need 15k for full deposit as i can only get 92% here..

This sucks
No dont tell me why there are no 100% mortgages here.. Im sure they are very valid reasons 10 years ago when the remaining 8% was not hard for people to save.. but on average people need to save 15 to 30 grand for a deposit.. tell me who the hell can possibly do that without a loan unless they are rich???

Its a pain... my wife is american so i may go there, where you CAN get 100% mortgage and a huge house for less than half the price as here for twice the size.. Only thing is we dont want to live there.. especially me, i dont want to work there as the work environment sucks, no standard holidays.. need to work somewhere 5 years before you even get a week off... crap like that.

AGHHHH...

cdebru

do what most people do borrow from the credit union but dont tell the mortgage company and dont tell them you have a credit union account

Saruman

I know i was at them today, have to get parents to sign with me since im renting, have not been with them too long (4 or 5 months) and also its a lot of money. Anyway SOME credit unions can be checked and also they are starting to hook them all up

is_that_so

Reason for limit is to protect you as well as the lending institution. UK still indulges in up to 130% mortgages and that has led to serious pain in the past.
When I was buying the broker "unofficially" told me to be beg, steal or borrow the extra cash . CU is one option. Tapping friends and family is another and probably the least traceable. Once you get the place , you take out a personal loan to clear off your "borrowings". Important thing is to acquire cash that can't be identified as YOUR loan. CU are due to be accessible this year or next AFAIK so may be limited option there as you've pointed out.

Guru Maith Agut

Saruman wrote:

I have a house ready to go,

Hope it works out for you! You must have sold all the bits you had in the end so... What did the Clio go for?

cdebru

but they can only search if you give them permission so if you dont tell them you are a member of a credit union they cant ask for permission and cant search

afaik

In 2004, the Board of the ICB agreed requests to give all credit unions in Ireland the option of becoming members of the ICB. This means that credit unions will, in time, be able to supply information regarding loans and repayments to the ICB. Credit union customers' consent will be required before information can be passed on. There is no fixed date for when the passing of information from credit unions to the ICB will begin.

LegacyUser

be carefull, you may need a deposit of 10% not 8%.

this happened to me, check with your solicitor.

of course you get the 2% ballance back, after the solicitor has taken their cut.

ye, it's a pain in the hole. i had to buy with a mate.

we're all in the same boat.

Kernel32

Saruman wrote:

Its a pain... my wife is american so i may go there, where you CAN get 100% mortgage and a huge house for less than half the price as here for twice the size.. Only thing is we dont want to live there.. especially me, i dont want to work there as the work environment sucks, no standard holidays.. need to work somewhere 5 years before you even get a week off... crap like that.

AGHHHH...

While you can get much better value for money in the states 100% mortgages are not a good idea anywhere. In the US if you don't put down 20% you have to pay a monthly charge called Private Mortgage Insurance(PMI). Its a complete rubbish extra insurance the mortgage company wants because they say you have a higher risk of defaulting on the loan. My mortgage principal is around $260k and I pay $120 a month PMI because I only put down 10%. I am currently refinancing my mortage and splitting into two mortgages, this has become popular here. First big mortgage is for 80% of the value, eliminates PMI, second mortgage which is much smaller is for the remainder but also carries a higher interest rate, in the long term it works better though.

As for the work environment sucking, it isn't as good in some industries as it is in Ireland because of lack of regulation. But it isn't as bad as a lot of people think. I've worked here for 7 years and haven't had a problem. Right now I get 10 holidays a year, 15 vacation days and 20 days sick pay covered by company paid short term disability. My previous job I had 30 days paid time off I could take any time I wanted, this covered holidays, bank holidays and vacation.

joejoem

landser wrote:

me AND THE GF GOT A 100% mortgage. some of the banks will give them out, depends on your job and whether they think they'll make € out of you in the future. we're borrowing the stamp duty, i got pre-approved from GEC for the loan, but didn't draw it down until after my bank did their credit checks... therefore nothing showed up.

Only Solicitors, doctors and dentists etc get 100% finance.

Another post said they had to pay an extra 2% for the solicitor to take there fee's from? Never heard of that, sounds a tad fishy. Some mortgage brokers offer reduced legal fee's, I have said it in here before but my legal fee's were only €690 and was through one of the best solicitors in dublin.

Saruman

is_that_so wrote:

Reason for limit is to protect you as well as the lending institution. UK still indulges in up to 130% mortgages and that has led to serious pain in the past.
When I was buying the broker "unofficially" told me to be beg, steal or borrow the extra cash . CU is one option. Tapping friends and family is another and probably the least traceable. Once you get the place , you take out a personal loan to clear off your "borrowings". Important thing is to acquire cash that can't be identified as YOUR loan. CU are due to be accessible this year or next AFAIK so may be limited option there as you've pointed out.

Yes i know the reasons.. but like i said they are unrealistic these days!! House prices are too high to have the same percentage all these years!! My parents bought a 4 bed detached house with half an acre of garden in palmerstown for 68k in 1996. You cant even get 1 bed shack in dublin for that now!! 8% of that is €5440 which anyone can and should be able to save!! Thats fine a few years back but not any more. My point is this should be changed. The percentage should be changed. Even if it was 5% but 4% is better.

I was depressed all yesterday from it and thats just the first day!!

I mean come on.. they are expecting you to have a deposit SAVED thats similar to what houses cost in total 20 years ago!!! Its just stupid, everyone has to borrow it.. how they do it depends on the person but at the end of they day they have to pay off a mortgage AND some sort of loan for the deposite.. the banks know this, they cant be stupid enough to think the system is working fine!!

LegacyUser

Saruman wrote:

tell me who the hell can possibly do that without a loan unless they are rich???
AGHHHH...

I'm not rich .. it just took me a lot of scrimping and saving for 5 years.
92% mortgage does not mean that you only have to have 8% deposit up front. You still need to have the 10% deposit. The bank won't let you draw down 2% on its own.

So, if your house costs 200,000 then you need 20,000 deposit.

lomb

part of the reason for high house prices is the ready and ridiculously easy availability of credit. 5% down isnt alot really when u think about it. b4 it was 10 or 15% down. furthermore interest rates are too low imho, depositors get virtually nothing and with inflation running at 3-5%, one is either better investing in houses (further pushing up prices to their absolutely insane values) or spending it. cant be healthy for the economy whichever way u think about it.

i cant see how paying 1million euro for a crap terraced house that is practically falling down in dublin is right.

Guru Maith Agut

lomb wrote:

i cant see how paying 1million euro for a crap terraced house that is practically falling down in dublin is right.

You mean to say I could have got it for a mill...? Sheesh!
Though seriously, its no joke and the people (Financial Institutions) who are bending the rules so that Joe Punter can borrow more, should be held to account because they are the real culprits imho. If they didn't lend above the odds (3 times peoples gross salary, my arse) then the house builders and sellers couldn't higher the prices. It's as simple as that my friends!!

kittenkiller

Worked out a financial plan of sorts a few months ago for my boyfriend & myself:
as we both agree that renting is simply throughing an extortionate amount of money down the drain & paying someone else's morgage off for them, to save up a 10% deposit & extra funds for furnishings & insurance will take us *five years*!

5yrs before we can afford to live together!
we've been together 3 yrs now & they've kinda flown by, but still, FIVE years for a deposit!!!
Christ!

lomb

Guru Maith Agut wrote:

You mean to say I could have got it for a mill...? Sheesh!
Though seriously, its no joke and the people (Financial Institutions) who are bending the rules so that Joe Punter can borrow more, should be held to account because they are the real culprits imho. If they didn't lend above the odds (3 times peoples gross salary, my arse) then the house builders and sellers couldn't higher the prices. It's as simple as that my friends!!

I have the greatest of sympathys for people who cant afford a deposit but the whole reason for the vicious circle here in property values is the financial institutions stretching the criteria they have, they are handing money out left right and centre and giving the owners of it(the depositors0.1% ie fcuk all and ripping them off) this then forces people whos money is being eroded to fcuk the only options of spending it and 'wasting' it or buying into something that appreciates with inflation ie houses and further spirlals the market.

prices especially in certain areas really are insane for the types of houses being offered.

oh and to the original poster u are right yank working practices leave alot to be desired, ie if they fire u they will have a security gaurd watch u pack and throw u out. what kind of way is that to treat anyone?

Saruman

well im more optomistic today!!! Called One direct (no one available at the time) but a guy there kept calling me back till he got hold of me. Anyway He was optomistic, did not even see my wife on a temp contract as being a problem. Said i will find out by monday at the latest. So i transferred 5k to the estate agents account for a booking depost.

I told the one direct guy i have no loan (true at the moment, and that my parents will give me a "gift" of the rest. Which means if i get the mortgage sorted monday, i can get my credit union loan on Tuesday (after credit checks) and im laughing.... fingers crossed...

By the way feel free to do as my sig says and donate me some money

Oh @ Guru Maith Agut did not sell it in the end, i traded in for a car and got 8.5k for it and paid 1400 for a primera. 01 so down a year but up a car.

MorningStar

Well there you have it folks how people get mortgages. They don't have the deposit themselves so family help. Now if nobodies family helped the house prices would have to come down as nobody could afford them.
The arguement that you are paying somebody elses mortgage when renting is also a bit unfair. You are paying for a service which you recieve. As landlords pay tax (some don't but if you don't get rent relief that's your fault) they are also paying a large sum off against the mortgage for the property. If they have been renting the property out for a long time they took extreme risks druring the 80's and 90's and have spent a fair amount on maintainence and probably had periods when there was no rent.
It's difficult to get on the property ladder but you shouldn't really complain about the situation and then be part of the problem. People do kill themselves to save because their families can't help. People also buy larger houses away from proper services and commute horrible distances because they don't want a small house. Some of it's choice and some of it neccesity. Blaming the mortgage companies is really simplistic. Pension plan deficates are a bigger part of the cause than 100% mortgages.

Saruman

It's difficult to get on the property ladder but you shouldn't really complain about the situation and then be part of the problem.

This is perhaps the most stupid statement i have heard in a while... Explain to me enlightened one how you get on the property ladder WITHOUT using the system and being part of the problem as you put it??

lomb

i think he is saying that u shouldnt complain about high prices if u are going to use the system like everyone else not that u shouldnt use the system but just u shouldnt complain.

what i think he is saying is people here complain about renting and high prices. that is totally unfair. rents and yields have fallen significantly, rents are currently reasonabble considering the crazy prices to buy the same properties. essiently the yield has dropped to 4% and with appreciation at say 3% currently that gives a return of 7%. with time/maintainance/service charges and now the hugh risk of units being empty due to the number of apartments being built and hassle are taken into account i dont think its that attractive anymore to be a landlord tbh.

cdebru

if it is not attractive then landlords should stop buying property then the prices would fall and make it easier for someone like saruman

part of the problem is saruman is up against landlords who want to buy the property as well they have more money can get 100% mortgages using other property as collateral etc

lomb

cdebru wrote:

if it is not attractive then landlords should stop buying property then the prices would fall and make it easier for someone like saruman

part of the problem is saruman is up against landlords who want to buy the property as well they have more money can get 100% mortgages using other property as collateral etc

again the landlords buying property is nearly the ONLY solution to stop onces money being eroded by inflation which is a symptom of low interest rates. the only way to stabilise the property market is to crank deposit interest rates to 4.5 -5% and mortage rates to 6% which is a fair price in my opinion to borrow money.

as long as the interest rates remain low watch the economy become destabilised. the uk has learned this and that is why interest rates are nearly 5% there and rising.

answr me a qustion, if u have worked hard and have say 300000 euros in cash, u have several options which would u choose.

1 put in a high yielding euro deposit account at 2%, accept that u will have 1 % at the end of the year ofter paying tax and inflation is 4% (i know they say its lower but it really isnt its just playing with numbers) so u are loosing 3% a year compounded, by the time u retire in say 20 years that money will be worthless.
BAD CHOICE.

2 buy shares-this is debatable FAIR CHOICE.

3buy sterling and put it in a sterling 5% account but might be risky with currency movements BAD CHOICE

4 buy property- capital gains tax is inflation adjusted so u will pay no/llittle tax on property rises, rent is taxed but then again interest is tax deductable as are expenses. all in all after tax expect a 4% yield, thats 4 times a deposit account and ur money is 'safe' BEST CHOICE.

5. spend it and fuel the economy- FAIR CHOICE.

so there we have it, interest rates need to rise and rise significantly, of course this will put alot of borrowers in dodo, but then again u should blame the goverment/europe for the insane lowering of rates where spending money or buying property is better than saving it......

cdebru

unfortunately we have absolutely no control over our interest rates at the moment low interest rates suit the germans and french whos economies are on their knees the needs of a small economy like Ireland are not in the mind of the heads of the ECB

also you can be pretty sure when Ireland needs low interest rates they will be high

and which is it not attractive as per your previous post or the best option as per your last post

BTW property prices dont always rise ask anyone in the UK around the 80s 90s

MorningStar

Saruman wrote:

This is perhaps the most stupid statement i have heard in a while... Explain to me enlightened one how you get on the property ladder WITHOUT using the system and being part of the problem as you put it??

Probably not. I never said it was about your sistuation I was commenting on how people are doing it and methods mentioned. I pointed out the blaming mortgage companies was a little niave. One of the stupist things I have heard though must be putting a deposit on a house that you don't actually have the remainder of the deposit for.
Being part of the problem meant getting help from your parents extending the length of the mortgage to longer periods (25-35 years). Basically while sorting a personal situation people contribute to the situation in the first place.The children of my generation will most likely not buy their own houses as the situation moves on.
Within 25 years a lot of the older suburban houses will be split into flats and sold seperately. I am talking about houses built in to 70s and 80s where a 3 bed , 2 reception room house will be converted into 2 cramped 2 bed flats or 2 largish 1 bed flats

gamer

Go to rea mortgages they will get u best mortgage on market and they refund u 2 grand approx or more, ie whatever commission they receive off bank for finding a mortgage customer ,borrow money off friends or family asap cos houses are still going up in dublin every year especially in mature areas,i have nuthin to do with em ,i just hear good things about them,i dont think it,ll cost u anything to talk to em,100percent loans only avaidable to doctors and certain professions.they are the only broker that give u commission back as far as i know.

gamer

go to credit union borrow money tell no one especially ur bank or solicitor, i find it sad situation, to be frank, ITS RIDICULOUS to be saving for years for mortgage deposit, u save 10k a year maybe if ur lucky, sure prices are going up by 20k a year on a average ordinary 3bed house in an ordinary area like cooolock,so saving years 4 deposit is totally pointless...borrow the deposit of any1 ur friends family ANYONE ,comprende?this is not rocket science ,simple maths ,u save 10 ,houses going up 20k per year,houston, we have a PROBLEM.sell whatever u have just get deposit.

Victor

gamer wrote:

go to credit union borrow money tell no one especially ur bank or solicitor, i find it sad situation, to be frank, ITS RIDICULOUS

JUST MAKE SURE YOU LIE ON YOUR MORTGAGE APPLICATION :rolleyes:

gamer

dont tell em u even have a credit union account ,say u put 3k in credit union account,u,ll get loan 10 to 15k,,u can get any homeowner family or friend to act as gaurantor on loan, its easier to get mortgage if u have parent or family member willing to go as a gaurantor on part of it,i see no sign of prices slowing in dublin,theres very little space left to build houses in dublin,apart from blanchardstown or dublin west or lucan.u cud get house in dublin west or clonsilla for 240k or 220 if u look round ,,in private estate,prices same in dublin 15 as they were in 2002,cos of traffic levels,and theres loads of apartments being built.chances of bank finding out re creditunion loan is small,dont even tell ur lawyer, small companys in dublin now doing conveyancing,hous purchase ,fixed price,1000euro ,for any house old or newly built.use google.ie to find em.

MorningStar

gamer wrote:

dont tell em u even have a credit union account ,say u put 3k in credit union account,u,ll get loan 10 to 15k,,u can get any homeowner family or friend to act as gaurantor on loan, its easier to get mortgage if u have parent or family member willing to go as a gaurantor on part of it,i see no sign of prices slowing in dublin,theres very little space left to build houses in dublin,apart from blanchardstown or dublin west or lucan.u cud get house in dublin west or clonsilla for 240k or 220 if u look round ,,in private estate,prices same in dublin 15 as they were in 2002,cos of traffic levels,and theres loads of apartments being built.chances of bank finding out re creditunion loan is small,dont even tell ur lawyer, small companys in dublin now doing conveyancing,hous purchase ,fixed price,1000euro ,for any house old or newly built.use google.ie to find em.

You do know that by not declaring a credit union loan on a mortgage application they can foreclose? They can also sue you and it is also illegal! Now it's not nessarily going to happen but I wouldn't trust a bank for 30 years not to decide to do something about it when they do find out. Before you say that will never happen the banks screwed a ton of people over in the non-resident accounts and washed their hands of it.
The fact people do all these different things to get a mortgage actually is the cause of house prices going up. If negative equity happens people are truely in trouble you might not see it happening but it is posssible. If one development firm is shown to build a housing estate incorrectly all houses built by said developer could cause negative equity. A new housing estate could also turn into a hell hole causing a very local house price crash. The affordable housing scheme has the potential for this to happen.

Victor

MorningStar wrote:

If one development firm is shown to build a housing estate incorrectly all houses built by said developer could cause negative equity. A new housing estate could also turn into a hell hole causing a very local house price crash. The affordable housing scheme has the potential for this to happen.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

Homebond and similar mean profound error is unlikely in construction.

What problems are you suggesting affordable housing schemes cause?

MorningStar

Victor wrote:

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

Homebond and similar mean profound error is unlikely in construction.

What problems are you suggesting affordable housing schemes cause?

I was just making the point that house prices may not drop over all but there are additional factors that may cause your own house to drop in price. Homebond may insure your house but it would take time and there is always the possibility that somebody looks the other way.
The affordable housing scheme comes from an idea that has been in play for a long time in the US. The UK also have used a similar scheme. Both countries have experienced difficulties in certain areas. Basically an anti social element in the affordable housing scheme has had difficulties with the people who paid full prices. This has in turn effected the house prices in the surrounding areas. It has already shown up here once down at the IFSC that I am aware of.

Victor

MorningStar wrote:

Basically an anti social element in the affordable housing scheme has had difficulties with the people who paid full prices. This has in turn effected the house prices in the surrounding areas. It has already shown up here once down at the IFSC that I am aware of.

What about the BMW-driving, Shiraz-drinking, anti-social elements?

I think you are grapsing at straws.