Would you support the reintroduction of the wolf into Ireland?

seamus

Moved from AH.

Fuseman

Anders Giselsso wrote:

Hi Fuseman,
I would like to talk to you off chat thread. You can send an e-mail to Rainbow_wolf@eircom.net. It will take a while before I reply, since I'm not at that address at the moment. If you want, you can give me your E-mail-address.
I don't really breed them, I live with them. This with the shed makes me a bit sad, though I know that they can handle it as a temporary solution. I'm frantically building enclosures, and will have about 6 acres fenced in when I'm finished (will take a few years), but one of the packs sleeps in the house with my family, when the other is in the wolf house.

I think you take owning them alot more seriously than I do. I just treat them like ordinary dogs. I try and take them out for a walk round the flats one by one but my biggest concern if how to keep them fed. My local butcher is good and will give me a few bits and pieces every week but other than that I have to get them ordinary dog food which I know isn't very good for them. I can't believe you live with them. You must have a huge estate to have 6 acres for your wolves. Its great to hear from someone with a good interest in wolves. How do you keep yours fed ? Butchers in Dublin don't believe me.

Anders Giselsso

Hi Fuseman,
I work in Dublin but live in Leitrim. It's not an estate, it's the last house up a mountain where very few people want to live nowadays. I treat mine as extraordinary dogs, since I can see and feel the difference (I keep a few rescued dogs as well). You are right about their food --- I've brought up three litters of wolves, and the one litter that never was fed anything but raw meat and bones are the healthiest of them all. Dog food tends to give them loose stomachs and they wont grow as well on it. I have a good relationship with my local butcher and feed them on the stuff people wont eat any more.
I know I'm a serious bollox but I've lived with wolves since Jan 1998, and I always make the comparison of having young kids or having teenagers, as the equivalent of living with dogs or wolves. I've been in a similar situation as you with seven wolves, so I know that it's OK. It does make make me a bit sad anyway, because I've seen the same wolves roaming a half acre compound as well, and as you said: you walk them one at a time. When eight of them are playing and chasing eachother in a field you can truly appreciate their beauty. If our plans come true you might be able to bring your wolves to a place where you can let them loose on an acre or so. Anyway, good luck and enjoy life.

MrJoeSoap

http://canidae.ca/WOLFDANG.HTM

Wolves aren't as dangerous as some people think, but they wouldn't last very long here, as there wouldn't be enough for them to eat.

carpocrates

I have to say that I'm in two minds about this. If something is extinct, nationally at least, and people start bringing things back, I mean wouldn't the logical conclusion be Jurassic Louth?
Maybe it would be a more positive move to try and introduce endangered species into the wild here, at least ones accustomed to our climate etc, to try and keep them on the planet. I dunno, Pandas etc? Then again I'm not fully briefed on wolves so for all I know they could be endangered.

Hmmmm. ever the schizo, I'm now unsure if introducing new species into an environment might be dangerous.... maybe the whole idea should be scrapped...

Yoda

Anyone have any good wolf recipes?

Capt'n Midnight

MrJoeSoap wrote:

http://canidae.ca/WOLFDANG.HTM

Wolves aren't as dangerous as some people think, but they wouldn't last very long here, as there wouldn't be enough for them to eat.

IIRC there was a researcher looking at the diet of wolves in the artic and it looked liked all they ate was mice and no one believed him and so in order to prove it he tried to live on mice for a while..

The_Conductor

Yoda wrote:

Anyone have any good wolf recipes?

Funny that you should mention it......

Wolf is a very flavoursome meat, and a delicacy with many peoples. A more modern take on preparation of wolf, would be to sauté it. This has the added benefit of only taking about 10 minutes to produce a very tasty and nutritional meal- its good served with rice (traditionally it would have been stewed).

Directions as follows:


Strip tenderloins from shank and trim till lean.

Prepare pieces of an even thickness and size, and dry before dredging in
flour.

• Select the proper sized sauté pan. A sauté pan is the one with slopping sides making the tossing motion easier. Use a pan that is big enough to comfortably contain the wolf meat. A pan that is too small will not allow the juices to evaporate enough and the meat will boil and steam. This will toughen the meat considerably....

• Use the correct amount of cooking fat. If your sauté pan has a non-stick surface, there is no need to use much oil at all. I suggest you add some white wine to your wolf meat to not only enhance the taste of the dish, but also help the meat glide on the pan. With a constant stirring motion as you sauté, few food bits will stick to the surface. Butter will give your food the best taste and a wonderful golden crust but burns more easily. Olive oil produces a nice crust and will not burn as quickly, but also doesn't leave as rich a flavor or color as butter alone. I prefer to use a combination of the two. What you cook and the amount you're cooking will determine how much butter and oil you use.

Preheat
• Place the pan on the heat, preheat the pan and wait. How do I preheat a pan? (This is not a trick question.) All you have to do is turn your burner on low until it warms up to about 180 degrees F. You don't want to preheat it on high or you will burn the butter or fat as soon as you put it in the sauté pan. Remember though, once your pan is preheated, you are ready to cook.

• When the pan is hot, add the butter, and wait briefly for it to get hot. You will know your sauté pan is hot enough and it is time to add your ingredients when the butter stops foaming and begins to turn a pale brown. Be careful not to let it start smoking (eating in a smoke-filled room is only fun in a Paris café).

Sauté
• Place the meat pieces in the hot fat, jack up the heat and sauté. The idea is to get the meat to seize immediately and start to brown. This forms a protective coating which will help to keep in the juices. As the meat sears it will initially stick to the bottom of the pan. Eventually the meat will "release" from the pan. Do not move the meat in the pan until it releases, otherwise pieces of the meat will tear off and remain stuck to the bottom.

• Cooking time and heat will vary, depending on what the thickness of the meat pieces.

• Flip the meat pieces over when they release. I never use a fork for
flipping, because it pierces the meat and lets the juices escape. My favorite tool to flip sautéd meats is a pair of rubber tipped tongs. Tossing is better than stirring because it's gentler, and more fun! Although this can be intimidating, with practice you’ll toss food in the pan without getting your burners dirty just like the pros.

• Remove the meat from your sauté pan to a warming plate in the oven (set at the lowest temperature, about 180 degrees).

Deglaze, Reduce and Finish
• Deglaze the sauté pan by adding a liquid into the hot pan. Wolf meat is a brownish white meat and after being floured and dropped into a thin film of hot fat, will leave little bits stuck to the bottom of the pan. By adding a liquid to the hot pan and rubbing the bottom of the pan briskly with a wooden spoon while the liquid boils, these brown bits will become dislodged and dissolve, thickening the liquid being used for a sauce.

• Reduce or boil down the liquid and add aditional white wine, cream, mustard, crème fraiche or any other amendment at this point.

• Finish off heat by swirling in a lump of sweet butter to enrich and smooth out the sauce.

• Replace the food and allow it to heat through before serving.

RuggieBear

alway's wanted to try a canine....to be frank, i'll pretty much eat any mammal. It's mainly a hygene thing (and the law, i'd imagine) that prevents me eating dogs...but i'm sure a wolf would be much juicier and tastier but consequently much more expensive. God i hate being a student

Yoda

I did have some dog when I was in Xiamen a couple of months ago. It was tasty, and served in one of those Chinese banquets we were guests of. As far as hygiene goes, Asian dog-for-food is farmed dog, not free-range dog, and is a medium-sized muscly breed.

Esel

carpocrates wrote:

...Maybe it would be a more positive move to try and introduce endangered species into the wild here, at least ones accustomed to our climate etc, to try and keep them on the planet. I dunno, Pandas etc?...

Oh yeah, nice cuddly Pandas, with very sharp teeth, and no local food! Irish take-away anyone?

CerebralCortex

There isn't any real countryside left its all fenced or walled off and wrapped in black plastic agricultural land there is no place left for anything bigger than a
rat.

jaedi

Doper Than U wrote: »

True Myth, but wolves were a native species, unlike foxes, which came from France originally.

Pretty much every species in Ireland came from continental Europe. The ice cap covered Ireland completely during the last ice age so our "native" species are those that naturally re-established themselves when the ice retreated.

The most important criteria for determining appropriate species of plants and animals for Ireland concern their adaptation to the Irish climate and those that are non-invasive - i.e. will not cause the local extinction of species that have already established themselves naturally. Most species from North-West Europe would probably be appropriate.

RuggieBear

3 1/2 year old thread.....

The_Conductor

CerebralCortex wrote: »

There isn't any real countryside left its all fenced or walled off and wrapped in black plastic agricultural land there is no place left for anything bigger than a
rat.

Just under 12% of the country is under forestry and a further 9% in open commonage- theres 21% of the sort of territory likely to be of interest to a wolf straight off.......

jaedi

RuggieBear wrote: »

3 1/2 year old thread.....

Which makes it invalid? I don't see the point of your comment.

jaedi

Silvera wrote: »

Even though I am a wildlife enthusiast, I would be totally against the reintroduction of Wolves in Ireland.

Think about it, currently a person can walk in any part of the countryside without fear of being attacked by a wild animal - this would change with the reintroduction of wolves !!

Delightful! Do we really want to have a tame countryside with no rough edges? - in fact, why not let people sue the government for not filling in every hole or for not removing every tree root that you might trip over! We can even provide mini form distributors at every kilometre to fast-track compensation claims! Why is the elimination of risk such an absolute priority?

It's quite sad that we have not preserved any wild areas of Ireland. The "emerald isle" is only green because we are lucky enough to have ample rainfall. We have "deserts" of grass where we should have vast oak forests - thanks to our tax-subsidised farmers "managing" the countryside. We have so much livestock roaming everywhere that there is no possibility of natural forest regeneration and most of the forest we do have consists of sitka spruce plantations which is not a natural environment for most Irish fauna.

Fair enough - this suggests that we do not have suitable forested habitat for the wolf. This is a valid point, but consider the reasons for the lack of forest... It would not be unreasonable to prevent cattle and sheep from roaming our national parks to encourage forest regeneration. We proudly rejoice about our deer populations, however, in a natural environment, they'd have top predators to control their populations which avoids the excessive browsing on new forest growth. No need to worry about farmers losing the odd cow or sheep. As always, they'll be more than adequately compensated. I'd even go as far as to say that in this case, this is a good thing. They won't be as inclined to kill the wolves once again.

The presence of a top predator does not mean the extermination of their prey - only a reduction of their numbers to sustainable levels. Ireland is one of the few places on the planet that lacks a top predator (due to people hunting them to extinction). One source suggest that it was hunting bounties, offered by the British, that finally wiped them out. The reintroduction of wolves would actually contribute to natural forest regeneration. All that is needed is the initial helping hand to get the cycle in motion.

Wolves are, in fact, quite shy in the presence of people. Compared to other comparable predators, they very rarely attack people. There may be a minor risk for a small child left completely alone in a remote location, however, that is irresponsible in any case, with or without wolves. Adults are completely safe. For the risk-averse, I suggest that you never travel by car again. That's much more likely to kill you.

Well, here's to our (sterile?) Irish kodak countryside!

Macha

Indeed, we have a problem with too many deer at the moment because deer don't have any natural predators anymore. So the reintroduction of wolves would actually redress a balance in the silvan ecosystem.

Too many deer means too many small saplings are eaten. In addition, having a natural predator keep the herd healthy & fit as the lame & old are picked off. Sounds cruel, I know but thats nature.

baldieman

jaedi wrote: »

Delightful! Do we really want to have a tame countryside with no rough edges? - in fact, why not let people sue the government for not filling in every hole or for not removing every tree root that you might trip over! We can even provide mini form distributors at every kilometre to fast-track compensation claims! Why is the elimination of risk such an absolute priority?

It's quite sad that we have not preserved any wild areas of Ireland. The "emerald isle" is only green because we are lucky enough to have ample rainfall. We have "deserts" of grass where we should have vast oak forests - thanks to our tax-subsidised farmers "managing" the countryside. We have so much livestock roaming everywhere that there is no possibility of natural forest regeneration and most of the forest we do have consists of sitka spruce plantations which is not a natural environment for most Irish fauna.

Fair enough - this suggests that we do not have suitable forested habitat for the wolf. This is a valid point, but consider the reasons for the lack of forest... It would not be unreasonable to prevent cattle and sheep from roaming our national parks to encourage forest regeneration. We proudly rejoice about our deer populations, however, in a natural environment, they'd have top predators to control their populations which avoids the excessive browsing on new forest growth. No need to worry about farmers losing the odd cow or sheep. As always, they'll be more than adequately compensated. I'd even go as far as to say that in this case, this is a good thing. They won't be as inclined to kill the wolves once again.

The presence of a top predator does not mean the extermination of their prey - only a reduction of their numbers to sustainable levels. Ireland is one of the few places on the planet that lacks a top predator (due to people hunting them to extinction). One source suggest that it was hunting bounties, offered by the British, that finally wiped them out. The re-introduction of wolves would actually contribute to natural forest regeneration. All that is needed is the initial helping hand to get the cycle in motion.

Wolves are, in fact, quite shy in the presence of people. Compared to other comparable predators, they very rarely attack people. There may be a minor risk for a small child left completely alone in a remote location, however, that is irresponsible in any case, with or without wolves. Adults are completely safe. For the risk-averse, I suggest that you never travel by car again. That's much more likely to kill you.

Well, here's to our (sterile?) Irish kodak countryside!

It was a wise man who said "if there's no danger in your life, then your not living"

Judgement Day

I have never understood the fetish that many environmentalists/wildlife lovers have for reintroducing lost species such as the White Tailed Eagle in Killarney instead of concentrating the meagre resources available for conservation on existing species and threatened habitats. The reintroduction of Wolves would achieve little except upset the farming lobby even more and the poisoned Eagles would soon be joined by poisoned Wolves.

The country is full of threatened habitats and endangered species so let's do something for them first before we endulge in any more cinderella projects.!

mumhaabu

Reintroducing the Wolf into Ireland is a very bad idea, they have killed alot of people you know. Myself and a friend had a rather frightening incident one time in Canada and only for the fact we were both practically monkeys as Children we were able to scramble up a tree and use his cell phone to call armed help. I swear they are viscous and not something I would want anywhere in this country at all. Maybe rear them and release them into the wild and then shoot them for sport just don't introduce them.

jaedi

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have never understood the fetish that many environmentalists/wildlife lovers have for reintroducing lost species such as the White Tailed Eagle in Killarney instead of concentrating the meagre resources available for conservation on existing species and threatened habitats. The reintroduction of Wolves would achieve little except upset the farming lobby even more and the poisoned Eagles would soon be joined by poisoned Wolves.

The country is full of threatened habitats and endangered species so let's do something for them first before we endulge in any more cinderella projects.!

That's a good point about protecting existing species and threatened habitats. You're forgetting one important fact, though... Reintroducing top predators is a critical step that is needed to protect habitats. Animals such as deer do enormous damage to new forest growth. The wolf would limit their numbers. If the natural habitats recover, the existing species will benefit much more than by simply subsidising farmers to maintain hedgerows (but at least it's better than nothing). More "cinderella projects", I say

Concerning existing species, consider also our threatened native red squirrel. The American Eastern Gray Squirrel was introduced into Ireland and is endangering the red squirrel through disease and competition. The greys also do damage to native forest trees trees which are not adapted to its presence. Luckily, the Pine Marten (also native) is a predator of the grey squirrel. It is less of a threat to the reds because the greys spend more time on the ground foraging. The Pine Marten is currently endangered in Ireland mostly due to hunting (for its fur) but also due to the removal of forest habitat. One solution for helping red squirrels would be to help the native Pine Marten recover.

Farmers poisoning eagles or wolves (if they are reintroduced) is an issue that can be solved through education and a carefully thought out compensation scheme.The damage farming causes often astonishes me. If you were to visit an area of pristine wilderness elsewhere, the problems in Ireland would become clearer. Rivers and lakes are often devoid of fish thanks to farmers using excessive artificial fertiliser that runs off and into streams and rivers. The bird population struggles due to farmers using excessive artificial pesticides rather than natural biocontrol methods to control pests. Very few fragments of virgin forest remain because they were cleared mostly for farming. Of course farmers are needed, but at what cost?

I do not understand why farmers are allowed to determine our entire ecosystem considering that they are such a small minority and are subsidised by the taxes of everyone else. In fact, I do understand - they are a powerful political lobby group who are protected and whose interests are over-represented. The average person working in services or industry (i.e. the vast majority of Irish people) receives no such protection, however, they should have the right to enjoy Irish wildlife and countryside in its natural state.

Farmers have to be paid (again, your taxes) and arm-twisted into limiting their impact on the environment when this should be an obligation that is expected of them as a minimum. Government policy should reflect the interests of the majority of Irish people and not just negotiate to protect farmers interests and subsidies in Brussels. The government undertakes to carry out an environmental impact study for the construction of a new motorway - it keeps us quiet but is that enough??? I am not talking about preventing the construction of new motorways - they are needed - but there are so many bigger issues that are entirely neglected. Forget the Green Party - they have proven to be impotent and are simply a seat-earner for FF. I really think that it's a pity that mainstream parties and the electorate do not consider these issues and how they could have amazing wild areas they could enjoy.

2 stroke

If you're going to reintroduce wolves, do it where there is an abundant food supply, O Connell street.

Judgement Day

Do you mean Burger King, Macdonalds or just Nortsiders?? :D:D

Macha

They were saying on TV (fountain of all truthful knowledge) yesterday that there are only 6 countries in Europe that don't have wolves & you don't hear about little children being dragged off & devoured.

Judgement Day

taconnol wrote: »

They were saying on TV (fountain of all truthful knowledge) yesterday that there are only 6 countries in Europe that don't have wolves & you don't hear about little children being dragged off & devoured.

In fairness we don't hear much about anything from other European countries unless it's of major news! Could the wolves be trained just to eat druggies and other scumbags on O'Connell Street? :D

bigtime

taconnol wrote: »

They were saying on TV (fountain of all truthful knowledge) yesterday that there are only 6 countries in Europe that don't have wolves & you don't hear about little children being dragged off & devoured.

Are you serious.

There is an old proverb, "never remove a fence until you know the reason it is there in the first place".

Are you aware that such schemes are rampant in the United States. They are introducing all sorts of wild animals into the countryside. Of course as always, there are forces at work here which do not even cross the mind of people like yourself.

Judgement Day

If it ain't broken don't fix it! Old saying that could be applied to this thread. Where on earth is the need to reintroduce Wolves - except on O'Connell Street and the Garda ERU could probably do a better job! :D

The_Conductor

Judgement Day wrote: »

In fairness we don't hear much about anything from other European countries unless it's of major news! Could the wolves be trained just to eat druggies and other scumbags on O'Connell Street? :D

In all fairness- they shouldn't have much difficulty in sniffing that particular demographic out......

Macha

Judgement Day wrote: »

In fairness we don't hear much about anything from other European countries unless it's of major news! Could the wolves be trained just to eat druggies and other scumbags on O'Connell Street? :D

That's true, although I reckon deaths by wolves would make it by their human-interest factor. For example, anyone see the story about the baby saved by the dog in Argentina? And the guy that was saying it was a wolf expert (yes, I know more vagueness ) I shall endeavour to find a more reliable source.

Bigtime, I mean Casey - I'd rather be a person like myself than a person like you.