How true is the advice 'Your not the only one..'

LegacyUser

It seems that every agony aunt or personal issue column you read will include the above phrase. I have been reading these columns for years now and although I do come across similar stories to myself there is always at least one significant difference between the person seeking the advice and my position. Therefore I have a problem believing this oft repeated line.

I could go into detail but I in truth I find taking advice like 'take risks', 'get out more', 'everybody has some insecurity', 'don't over analyse everthing' etc etc is wasted on me. I haven't managed to follow the advice in the past and I doubt I can now, (old dogs and new tricks).

What I want from this posting is clarification on whether this line is true of my position or not. I would like to hear from people in my exact position or who were in my position in the past. I would be particularly happy to hear from females, because I honestly don't believe it is possible for a female to achieve what I have managed (this has not been by choice obviously)

My present situation in a nutshell:
30 years old
No friends (close, casual or otherwise), I do everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, on my own, (when I work, I do so with others, 9-5, but beyond that I have no interaction with people)
Never had a girlfriend
Never been kissed
A virgin

This is just the way life has worked out for me. Since everybody is unique, is this just a manifestation of my own uniqueness?

simu

6 billion humans on the planet not to mention all those that have died before now. It's very highly probable that there is orhas been at least one person in your position.

tinkerbell

Namewitheld wrote:

No friends (close, casual or otherwise), I do everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, on my own, (when I work, I do so with others, 9-5, but beyond that I have no interaction with people)

I think the main thing here is why don't you have interaction with anybody outside of working hours? How about the people you work with, would you see yourself befriending them? Maybe you could start meeting up with them for lunch / in the evenings, etc.

Dunno really what to suggest other than that.

BuffyBot

simu wrote:

6 billion humans on the planet not to mention all those that have died before now. It's very highly probable that there is orhas been at least one person in your position.

What she said. Blunt, but perfectly correct

Sleepy

I may not be in the same situation as you, nor have I been but I can guarantee you're not the only one in this country in your situation, never mind in the world.

The old dog, new tricks line is bullsh:t and I suspect you know it. My own mother has gotten back into the dating scene at the age of 48 and seems to be more successful at it than I am despite being nearly 30 years out of practice!

To be so isolated at such a young age is unusual. Normally your level of isolation occurs in much older people who have outlived their friends and family. It's not an irrevocable situation though. If you haven't already sought professional help, it might be a good idea (learning how to open up to one person, even a therapist, should help you to be more open to developing relationships/friendships with others).

This may not be the advice you're looking for as you seem to want to write yourself off. I may be wrong in what I'm advising you, but as you know I'm working from a few lines of text you've posted on the net, not an overall picture of you as a person. Life's scary but that can be the beauty of it at times too...

Nevyn

take up a sport/hobby to get out more and maybe go to a boards beer.

Dating services are every bodies cup of tea , but there are dining clubs.
the set up a group of 12 people six male six female out on like a big group date for dinner. Beats noisy night clubs.

Miles

Yea, don't worry your not the only one who has this.;)

I move around to new cities and country's a lot and you get in a rut where you don't know anyone as the years go by. Also, my nearest family member is about 4000 miles away.

I usually try to work for volunteer organizations or join a club, it's about the best way to meet people.

Key is don't feel bad about it or feel there is anything wrong with you, there isn't. A lot of the time people think they are unique and that everyone around them has no problems, loads of family, and a bunch of friends. When I talk to my friends or family though they think the same about everyone else, and they have the same complaints of isolation.

Everyone has to find their on solutions; good luck with yours.

Pink Bunny

You don't say why it is that you are alone. Is it that you are shy? Or have you tried to get together with others and they turn you away?
I agree with Miles that you have to volunteer or join a club. If you are shy then maybe something like volunteering might be an answer because once you focus on someone or something other than yourself it's easier to lose that sense of selfconsciousness that sometimes holds us back.

If you are alone there must be a reason why. Maybe it's time to do some real soul searching if you aren't happy with yourself. It's a new year, what better time than now?

secret_squirrel

Namewitheld wrote:

I haven't managed to follow the advice in the past and I doubt I can now, (old dogs and new tricks).

Considering my Dad managed to start dating again at the age of 55 after my mum died - The Old Dogs cliche is bullshít. Pull yourself together - you need to kick yourself up the arse - no-one is going to do it for you.

Namewitheld wrote:

(this has not been by choice obviously)

YES IT HAS - by sitting there not acting on advice you are making a conscious choice to live your life in the manner you described.

Im in a less extreme version of your position but at least Im no illusion that its nobodies fault but my own. Only you can change your life its not easy - but nothing worth doing is.

For god sakes pull yourself together and start living your life - before you waste it all.

combs

Namewitheld wrote:

My present situation in a nutshell:
30 years old
No friends (close, casual or otherwise), I do everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, on my own, (when I work, I do so with others, 9-5, but beyond that I have no interaction with people)
Never had a girlfriend
Never been kissed
A virgin

This is just the way life has worked out for me. Since everybody is unique, is this just a manifestation of my own uniqueness?

No. Your situation is not unique. I can tell you that for a fact. Some don't even have workmates.

Philbert

@the original poster

I dont believe you or your situation is unique in this day and age. I think it can be unhealthy for a person to be so isolated but in saying that the best company can sometimes be your own. And I can only assume that to a degree, you enjoy your own company.

If you have been keeping an eye on PI over the past few years like you said, then theres no point in me making any suggestions on what you can do about it - youve read it all before.

monster_fighter

Namewitheld wrote:

30 years old
No friends (close, casual or otherwise), I do everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, on my own, (when I work, I do so with others, 9-5, but beyond that I have no interaction with people)
Never had a girlfriend
Never been kissed
A virgin

30 - that's your age, fair enough
Everything on your own - ok, I can relate.
Never had a girlfriend - well, I suppose if you don't socialise then that's what happens.
Never been kissed - SERIOUSLY? Never? Not even by a drunken lass on her birthday? I'm as shy as they come (and more) but even at that I've kissed a fair few.
A virgin - Probably could have guess that from the above.
I know I'll get slated for this but have you never considered paying for it? Yes it's illegal, here, but not everywhere.
No experience is the sort of thing that could stop you from getting to know women, make you feel nervous. It's not like kissing (which is easy, you could learn that from a website) - there is no substitute for practice here.

Are you fit?
If you're not then I would suggest you become so. It helps with the women (especially as you're shy), it's good for you too.
Once girls hit about 24 they (most of them) change. They start looking for more stable relationships, with nice men. They also become more confident and will approach you (especially north Europeans). So forget the girls of your teens and early twentys, these are not the same.

Good Luck,

Monster Fighter.

neuro-praxis

No, you're not the only one.

Ok, I don't think visiting a prostitute is what is going to improve this guy's self esteem. Scrap that, dude.

You sound as though you need to get to a therapist to help you talk through why you have such difficulty building relationships with people. At 30, you should have at least one or two friends to call your own.

It sounds as though there's something holding you back, probably an event or series of events as a child/teenager that stunted your relational capabilities.

Go sort yourself out. See a therpaist. You've said you won't join any clubs etc., so I don't know what else you can do. Perhaps a therapist can give you the tools to regain your confidence and get to know some people.

Good luck. You've got 50 or 60 years ahead of you so you might as well try to make them great.

monster_fighter

neuro-praxis wrote:

No, you're not the only one.

Ok, I don't think visiting a prostitute is what is going to improve this guy's self esteem. Scrap that, dude.

I suppose it depends on ones view on prostitution, most Irish seem to follow the church on that one.

Crucifix

monster_fighter wrote:

Not even by a drunken lass on her birthday?

I'm not quite sure why, but that phrase got me giggling.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the response.

Secret squirrel,

at least Im no illusion that its nobodies fault but my own.

same for me, I wasn't my intention to imply I was blaming anyone for my situation.

Secret squirrel and sleepy, in all fairness, your parents situation is not quite the same. They have had relationships (at least one serious and maybe more in their youth) the experience of which gives them a good starting point from which to re-enter the dating world. I have NO expierence. Maybe I should have said old dog and tricks, since new implies I have learned old tricks when this is not the case.

Tinkerbell, Thaed, Miles and Pinkbunny: I have serious trouble socialising. The fact that I have NO friends and have had none since before leaving school (I was a boring teenager, goes without saying really, so got left behind when others started doing with normal teens do) should give you some indication of how difficult it is for me to make contact with others. That said, I [UNDERLINE]will[/UNDERLINE] take on board the volunteer suggestion, this had crossed my mind only this christmas, came to nothing because of my lack to skills (I know this is a cop out)

It's a new year, what better time than now?

Twice a year, new years and birthday, from the ages of 15-27ish I would think 'the next twelve months will be different, this time next year I will have a girlfriend'. Goes without saying nothing ever happened, and so I gave up about 2yrs ago.

A virgin - Probably could have guess that from the above

Yes it was probably unneccesary to point this out since I mention I have never been kissed but I felt I should highlight the extreme nature of my position. And although I would much prefer to solve the friends situation first, the fact that I have never gotten it together with a women (not even for a drunken one night stand) is what plays on my mind each and every night.

have you never considered paying for it?

Yes but I don't feel I would get any satisfaction out of paying for it, I would still be in the same place but probably with a load of guilt to factor in as well.

Not even by a drunken lass on her birthday?

I'm not quite sure why, but that phrase got me giggling

It does me too, not the phrase itself, but the fact its true is laughable really.

Thanks to Combs, I hope whoever can identify with me manages to get something from what others have been telling saying.

combs

How would one get kissed by a drunken girl on her birthday when one does not go to birthday parties?

Others have mentioned their parents "dating" again after marriage break-up or widowhood, but that's different. They were married or had relationships once. The original poster here never did. That's why he feels he might be unique or different. The thought is "How have I come this far in life never having had a relationship or anything even approaching a relationship?" Does that sound right?

joePC

Hello "Namewitheld"

The statement "Your not the only one" has no relevence to your situation, I feel it may just reinforce your state without helping it.

Your situation is not hopeless, its far from hopeless. Anybody, anyone can change their situation anytime they want. Its just a state of mind, everything we do, think, say, act is all from the way in which we think hence the way we feel.

Its easy to just say: think positive, feel great etc.. because its bull.

"Old dog new tricks" im sure you believe in this because its much easier to just confince yourself of this and take no action which is what you have and continue to do. You have to break this cycle its up to you. The ball is in your court you can hit it or it can hit you. Its been hitting you for many years now dont you feel its time to hit back. You need to take every opportunity to talk, act, interact with people even if that means going to the shop to say hello to the person serving you, people are not stone they will interact with you no matter what you say. Its time for you to act now, take control and start doing, dont let anything, anyone, any bad experience get in your way if something goes wrong focus on the positive, what did you learn form the bad experience, everything happens for a reason and everything has a postive outcome not matter how bad or ****ty it may feel there is always a positive, believe this always.

You know you can do it.

Joe...

Chad ghostal

secret_squirrel wrote:

YES IT HAS - by sitting there not acting on advice you are making a conscious choice to live your life in the manner you described.

Im in a less extreme version of your position but at least Im no illusion that its nobodies fault but my own. Only you can change your life its not easy - but nothing worth doing is.

What he said more or less, your going to have to do something about it.
If this is actually want you want(human relationships extending beyond "hi")..

There are VEry few physical deformities i can think of that would stop people from getting on with or getting close to someone who actually makes an effort to get on with people....

how are you different from everybody else?
what makes you so unique?

you have to make an effort.
this might not be easy in work, as people may know you as being quiet or whatever, but get out, join clubs.. its all cliched and you know all of it already..
what are you waiting for?

Miles

To the thread starter:

Have you made a lot of attempts to get out? How did they go?

Are you just occasionally lonely or all or most of the time?

simu

Why don't you try making friends over the internet to start with? Here, already, you're getting into an on-line discussion with people that has nothing to do with your work.

Practise having conversations on IRC before trying it in the real world.

MojoMaker

Namewitheld, register so I can pm you, or alternatively pm me.

Pink Bunny

namewithheld wrote:

Thanks for the response.


Tinkerbell, Thaed, Miles and Pinkbunny:
The That said, I [UNDERLINE]will[/UNDERLINE] take on board the volunteer suggestion, this had crossed my mind only this christmas,

Oh good!!! Reading that made me smile.
You made a girl smile today-that's a good start.
Last year I spent a lot of time visiting a loved one at a Hospice center, and now lately I have been visiting my grandmother who just was moved into a senior home. And I know that when people are faced with either dying or just old age, they are always grateful for a short visit, even if you just pop your head in their room to say "hi". When you get to that stage in your life you are usually more accepting of people and aren't bothered by someone's physical apperance or lack of social skills. Plus it just makes you feel better inside, knowing that your visit might very welll have the highlight of their day.
(Oops! Sorry for the rant. LOL...some of us have the opposite problem and can't stop talking)

secret_squirrel

A few more positive suggestions for you -

Come along to the next boards beers - Im sure with a tiny effort you will be nattering (or people like a listener too) away in no time - keep an eye out for the pre-drink drinks - this would allow you to go there with a few people you already 'know'.

Try joining maybefriends.ie (its not just about dating) or a similar site - you can chat online with them and then go along to the group meetings when you make a few online friends. They are a good bunch - Im speaking from experience.

Joining a gym probably wont make you many new friends but its amazing what being fit does for your confidence. Think about something class based rather than just an excercise program.

[/Edit]
IRC isnt a bad suggestion try the rooms at irc.icq.com they are a friendly bunch too.

Is there any way you can get more involved with your workmates? Dont expect to meet your bestest friend but think about joining others of your department for lunch if you have a company canteen.

Maybe think about getting a job where there is more social interaction? Sounds a bit extreme but if you are really unhappy - its worth considering.

LegacyUser

For clarity, the mods are checking my posts resulting in a delay to post and I cannot edit once I’ve sent it. The large quote box in my 2nd post is inaccurate, the first and last sentences are quotes everything else is me. This is my 3rd post and is written after secret_squirrel (post 24)

[BOLD]First off I would like to say that I appreciate the time everyone has taken to read my post and respond. I never expected to get this much of a response, so a genuine thanks to all.[/BOLD] Remember this as your read.

It would appear that some people have misunderstood my intentions in writing on this forum. As relevant as the advice is, I have in read it all before, in fact much of it can be found in any number of threads in this forum. If I were inclined to give advice I to would say the same to others simply because it is all so obvious. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to act on it in the past and even though it is said in response to my own situation it is having little effect on me.

I wrote in the hope of hearing from someone who understands my position, (so I know I am not alone) but also someone who maybe managed to overcome it, (in the hope they could provide advice). Because lets face it, this is NOT NORMAL. And no matter how well intentioned your advice you cannot possibly understand how crippling this is.

Secret_Squirrel says he appreciates my situation to an extent and yet he tells me to ‘pull myself together’. If he could relate then he would know this sort of advice is wasted. He would know that as much as I would love to be able to do this and that no matter how good my intentions might be to start afresh tomorrow, ultimately nothing changes. As in previous post, ‘twice a year…’

Chad ghostal I consider myself unique because my DNA makes me so, I certainly don’t consider myself special. Simu and BoffyBot I know there are 6 billion people in the world and therefore in all likelihood there are plenty of people out there who would admit to being in the same position, but I am talking about me and the society in which I live. It is against the norms of Ireland in the 21st century that I compare myself. I read the agony aunts/PI columns which relate to people living around me here and now and it is because I do not read about people who share my particular situation that leads me to wonder whether it is just me.

But it would appear not to be the case. Combs that sounds bang on. This is what I am after. Now at least I know I am not alone. Mojo maker, I am registered but am posting anonymously anonymously (jaysus I’m wimp heh?) Maybe there is a way around this, I don’t know, but it is my desire to have this out in the open so others can benefit from any advice given. You could post anonymously yourself.

For the benefit of those who don’t understand what its like to be in my shoes, a few examples in answer to the advice given:
Two months ago went to a concert, lady seems to be looking at me from across the hall cant be sure as the entrance is behind me even so am happy to believe she is. Later go out to have a smoke and drink at the bar, she is with friends in the middle of the room, there is no table/ashtray, she comes to where I am standing beside a table/ashtray. She drinks and smokes, I drink and smoke. I think say something, any thing, the music, her t shirt (logo on it is a scream for attention), any thing. I think no, I am too old to start chatting up people, I have nothing to say, besides she probably gets it all the time when she wears that t-shirt, can’t do it, I go out rarely so am going to enjoy myself tonite just let it go. Having decided this I enjoyed myself where as in the past I would be caught up in kicking myself for my inability to act.

I spent 4 yrs in uni, was alone for pretty much 95% of my time there. Joined a handful of societies went to a handful of meetings and nothing came them.

I fancy the cashier in my local shop, if I am feeling confident I will say hi and she will smile back, that’s me made for the day, if I feel confident and say hi and she doesn’t even look at me, I’m f***ed. Other occasions I don’t feel confident enough to take the chance of not getting that smile so I keep my mouth shut.

Work wise, no matter what job I’ve had I have had no confidence in my ability to do it yet have never been fired, or needed to be told off, so there is no basis for this. Even so I am very self conscious around colleagues on top of the normal shyness and this hampers my ability to connect.

I am fit and I attend a gym, three times a week. I am not overweight, which is where I think this is coming from, if anything underweight for my height. I would consider myself plain, but my appearance has nothing to do with making friends and so is not something I am preoccupied with.

I am hard of hearing. This is not a problem but for one situation, which, not unusually for Irish, has been mentioned a few times, any guesses? Of course THE PUB. I cannot follow conversation among groups in a nosiy situation. It has to be one on one or nothing.

Thats it for now.

secret_squirrel

Namewithheld wrote:

Secret_Squirrel says he appreciates my situation to an extent and yet he tells me to ‘pull myself together’. If he could relate then he would know this sort of advice is wasted. He would know that as much as I would love to be able to do this and that no matter how good my intentions might be to start afresh tomorrow, ultimately nothing changes. As in previous post, ‘twice a year…’

You're bang on I can relate to everything you have said -
except your inability to motivate yourself even slightly. I too have been in both you shop situation and your concert situation - I too have had my day made by a shop assistance I see every day smiling at me. Im not much of a socialiser - Im quite happy to settle for a night a week tops. Infact I can think of whole months where I havent set foot outside the door to go to a social even. I always rationalise this by saying chatting with the housemates, or my family and friends on the phone is enough for me - since Im happy in my own company. However, there are times where I suspect Im lying to myself to a certain extent..... In that way Im like you - I really cant be bothered to make the changes in my life that would widen my social circle.

However where we differ is that I do have a social circle however limited it maybe (tbh most of it is through work, which I dont think is the best situation).

But Im also spoilt in that I have a v good group of friends in the UK that have always been there for me. They are my safety net.

For me the sheer soul destroying loneliness of your situation would be motivation enough to make me do something about it.

If you are really that incapable of motivating yourself I really think you should seek professional help before the potential loneliness and futility of your life catch you off guard one day.

Do you have any family? Could you ask them to make an appointment for you and make you go to it? TBH I cant see any other solution - you seem almost too far gone to help yourself. You know how unnatural the life you are living at the moment - please for gods sake take a first step.

combs

Namewithheld wrote:

Two months ago went to a concert, lady seems to be looking at me from across the hall cant be sure as the entrance is behind me even so am happy to believe she is. Later go out to have a smoke and drink at the bar, she is with friends in the middle of the room, there is no table/ashtray, she comes to where I am standing beside a table/ashtray. She drinks and smokes, I drink and smoke. I think say something, any thing, the music, her t shirt (logo on it is a scream for attention), any thing. I think no, I am too old to start chatting up people, I have nothing to say, besides she probably gets it all the time when she wears that t-shirt, can’t do it, I go out rarely so am going to enjoy myself tonite just let it go. Having decided this I enjoyed myself where as in the past I would be caught up in kicking myself for my inability to act.

I have been through that sort of situation more times than I could count. Some of us just freeze when we're outside the house. Any desire I have vanishes as soon as I get outside; my only goal is to go about my business and return home to safety. It's a defect, alright, but you're certainly not the only one to suffer from it. I still haven't been able to overcome it.

tinkerbell

I think maybe you would be better off seeing a counseller or something about your low self confidence, since you already know yourself that you just can't get out of this rut that you're in. Maybe that could help greatly?

As for the whole pub thing and not liking going there, I personally can't stand the pub either. So not liking the pub scene is normal. It's so annoying that a lot of the social scene in Ireland revolves around the pub.

BrianD3

Interesting thread. Original poster, the situation you find yourself in is a lot more common that you think. To prove this to yourself, google the following terms:
1) Social Phobia
2) Involuntary Celibacy
3) Love Shyness

You will find hundreds of pages of information which are very relevant to your situation. Read them and realise that this is a recognised problem and that lots of men (and it is invariably men not women) are in the same position. Also realise that this is not an easy problem to fix, you probably are well aware of that though

There is also a very good book on this topic called Shyness & Love:
Causes, Consequences and Treatment by Dr. Brian G. Gilmartin. You can get it at the following link. Make sure to get it and read every last word of it!
http://www.love-shy.com/

FWIW, I was and still am in a slightly similar situation. Not as severe as at least I have managed to have a couple of drunken one night stands when I was younger (late twenties now) But I have been celibate for years and have never come close to having a g/f. I also know NUMEROUS males in their twenties and older who I know for a fact have not dated and have not had girlfriends in the time I've known them and that could be period of a few years. They could well be virgins too, I don't know but I suspect some may be.

At this stage I am starting to think that women aren't all they're "cracked" up to be anyway. TBH the lack of a g/f is starting to bother me less and less and less as the years go by as I have plenty of other things to keep myself amused.

BrianD3

Victor

For clarity, the mods are checking my posts

All unregistered post on PI are checked.

I can understand, at least partly, the way you feel unique. However I think, given enough criteria, everyone is unique. I think you are unfairly placing yourself in the "freak of nature" category. While the individual symptoms are unique, I don't think the lonliness, isolation and possibly depression you feel are unique.

(1) There are lots of virgins out there.

(2) Few people can follow a conversation in a pub, partly due to the absense of sobriety, but lots of people suffer from some level of deafness (a lot of people are industrially deaf from modern living). I have the reverse problem, I hear too much, this mean instead of having to try to decipher one conversation over the music, I have to to decipher one conversation over many conversations, all of which I'm following and the music.

(3) Lots of people live 9-5 lives and go home and just sit in front of the TV.

(4) Theres a couple of girls in the local Spar that I like. Saying "hi" and smiling usually gets the same response. Sometimes we don't get the same response because the person has had a bad day, is busy or just doesn't feel up to it.

And so on .....................

---

None of the above are individually fatal errors and neither are they collectively fatal errors.

Some suggestions, make of them what you think:

Say "hi" to the bus driver.

Enjoy yourself, indulge yourself - deliberately by yourself - sometime.

Have a chat with that girl in the newsagents, say about todays weather. Ask her her name and tell her yours.

Go for a pint with your workmates on Friday

Download mIRC from www.mirc.com and use it.

Make an appointment with your GP for a check up and mention this thread (or the contents thereof).

Do the volunteer thing.

Get a full body massage (no that bit won't get massaged).

Invite a work colleague for a sandwich.

Come to the next boards.ie beers.

PS None of the above will get you laid, but may broaden you horizons.

ChRoMe

How will using irc remove his social phobia? Apologies I dont mean to be rude that would just seem to me to compound his situation

LegacyUser

Hi Namewitheld,

I’m 31 and had a very similar problem to yourself.

I had never held hands no alone kissed a girl.

Every year that went by I found myself getting more and more depressed with the situation. Every new years I would say this time next year I must have a girlfriend and of course nothing happened.

Things finally came to a head around two years ago and as a last resort I went for counselling. My main worry was that the counsellor would laugh at my problem (I assumed the problem was unique to me) but to my surprise she said it was unbelievably common. We started of with me talking about my life experiences, at some points I found myself on the verge of tears. This went on for maybe three sessions.

After that the counsellor gave little tasks to do. She got me to join a salsa dance class so that I would get accustomed to being physically close to women. I had to report on my experiences each week. She asked me to force myself to talk to women at every opportunity. For example at the checkout in the supermarket, next to me on the bus etc. At first it was small things like asking for the time and thing extending it to a little bit of small talk about the weather or how busy the shop was etc.

Next she got me to go to a few of those speed dating things. She said not to care how I got on, just go with the aim of getting comfortable talking to women.

She got me to go to a nightclub at least one night over the weekend and talk to at least one girl even if it was just asking for the time.

The final thing she got me to do was to join an online dating site. I went on loads of dates and met some very nice women.

The key to the whole thing was that each week I had to report back on what I did so it was impossible to procrastinate.

I am happy to say I now have a girlfriend, we are together 7 months and are very happy.

I hope my story helps.

LegacyUser

Once again thanks for the posts. They are begining to have an impact. Today I made an appointment with my GP, and I have resolved to talk to the cashier the next time I see her.
Some questions have arisen from recent posts.

Secret_squirrel
Your last post is confusing me. Again you say you can empathise with me and yet you mention workmates, housemates and the close circle of friends in the UK. This reminds me of the ‘I’m lonely even though surrounded by people’ type of personal problem I have read about countless times and which I cannot connect with. You say of yourself

I really cant be bothered to make the changes

to widen your social circle. My situation is not that I can’t be bothered, I CAN’T! That I have no social circle to widen should be proof enough of this. That you can have housemates and yet not go to the pub or have a night on the town (and all the possibilities that arise from this) totally bewilders me. I think you probably need to heed your own advice “Pull yourself together - you need to kick yourself up the arse” better still get one of your mates to do it
That said, thanks for the rest of the post.

BrianD3
I have read the intro to the book you mention and it would seem that it was written with me in mind. Although, like PI columns, I have my doubts about the worthiness of self help books. The fact this one is free gives it some credibility in my opinion and so I will give it ago. But why should I “make sure to get it and read every last word of it!”? I take you have, so let me know how it has helped you?

Hadsameproblem
Sincere thanks for your post. I am delighted that you have managed to get on with your life and it does give me some comfort in knowing that it can be done and that therapy can be a success. I have thought about it but have put it off not because she would laugh at me (keeping a straight face is probably the first thing they learn) but because it is as, you say, a last resort and I have yet to have that do or die moment. Without being specific maybe you could let me know what came to a head and how you went about taking the first steps.
One thing about your post stood out.

This went on for maybe three sessions. After that the counsellor gave little tasks to do. She got me to join a salsa dance class

At this early stage in the treatment, how in the name of all that’s holy did you manage to do this? Nothing short of hypnotism would get me to do this, I would sooner take Monster Fighters advice. I am thinking there was somebody with you, a friend maybe? The other steps I understand, although I would have serious trouble following them, I’d probably end up lying to her?

IRC: I take it this is more sophisticated than the AOL, MSN type chat rooms featuring a bunch of kids fffing and blinding at each other. I will look into. The funny thing is, from jobs which required a lot to telephone work, I know I am very relaxed talking to people on the other end of a telephone line, but once the phone is down I have nothing to say to the person right next to me. I realise this conflicts with my earlier comment on not being preoccupied by appearance. I’ll have to think about that.

secret_squirrel

ChRoMe wrote:

How will using irc remove his social phobia? Apologies I dont mean to be rude that would just seem to me to compound his situation

There is a risk of that alright - any electronic chat/board can be used as an excuse not to go out and meet people - However in this case it *might* be a useful first step. Infact there is always a chance of a physical meeting with a good bunch from IRC - its happened to me a coupla times. And once it got very physical

HadSameProblem - would you be able to pass the name of your counselor onto Namewithheld - Maybe with help from Beth, Gordon or another mod??

NameWithheld - I think you need to ask yourself one important question - did you want to know if there are other people in your situation to validate it and use it as an excuse not to change - OR - do you genuinely want to change?

A question no-one else has asked yet - are you happy the way you are? There's no shame in not following the common herd you know.

neuro-praxis

If you could find the courage to pm a few of the people who have replied in this thread (and feel free to pm me - but don't feel obliged), then I am sure those with whom you initiate contact would be glad to meet you at a boards beer (or whatever) and take care to try to get to know you.

Every friendship starts as an acquaintance.

Are there any others here who would be willing to try to get to know the original poster? (Over 18s would probably be best though - that's for all you well-intentioned 12 year olds. )

MojoMaker

Sometimes I find my friends *immensely* boring and often there's nothing I like better than having a few beers with complete strangers and just yarning on about nothing in particular. The offer's there for a few pints around Dublin city centre sometime man.

Just don't ask me to swap bad luck stories, 'cos I might really scare you...

LegacyUser

Hi Namewitheld,

Things came to a head in my situation out of pure desperation.
The older I was getting the more weddings and baby christenings I found myself attending. I really felt I was getting left behind in life. It became blatantly obvious I had a problem. I decided I didn't want to look back when I was 50 (and still possibly alone) and think god why didn't I do my very best to find somebody to share my life with. I knew I had nothing to loose really.

One day when I was feeling very low I just got the golden pages out of curiosity to see how many counsellors advertised there. I decided to ring one to enquire about the cost and she just told me to come in for a chat.

Trust me I was terrified going to salsa only a few weeks after starting but it is amazing how quickly talking to a professional can change your perception of yourself, other people and situations. I went to one of those 6 week salsa courses I just went along and the guy running it just put me at ease.

If you want to get the name of the councellor I used (who is based in Kilcock, co Kildare) I can find a way to get it to you. But I think any councellor could handle this sort of problem.

Regards.

Beruthiel

HadSameProblem wrote:

If you want to get the name of the councellor I used (who is based in Kilcock, co Kildare) I can find a way to get it to you

I can be PM'd in confidence, if the thread starter wishes this information
a

BrianD3

Namewitheld wrote:

BrianD3
I have read the intro to the book you mention and it would seem that it was written with me in mind. Although, like PI columns, I have my doubts about the worthiness of self help books. The fact this one is free gives it some credibility in my opinion and so I will give it ago. But why should I “make sure to get it and read every last word of it!”? I take you have, so let me know how it has helped you?

The book isn't really a self help book, it's more of a study of the problem of involuntary celibacy. The books suggests that the only reliable therapy for this type of thing is practice dating using surrogates, a therapy that is not widely available in the US and certainly not here. You should read the book because while it may not help you much it will give you a much better understanding of your "condition".

BrianD3

Victor

For Namewithheld and anyone else contemplating talking to a counsellor / mediator / facilitator.

Your own GP is likely to have a list of people in your own locality (or within reach with transport). If there is any particular direction you want, then you can talk that over with the GP and the counsellor. You needn't stick with the first counsellor.

Oryx

I am not in your situation, but did find it hard to make friends, and still do. i thought everything I had to say was so dull and everyone was more interesting/happy/exciting than me. i felt foolish and judged and stupid. I was so shy it was like a physical pain. I remember going to a keep fit class alone and it took so much effort to go in I had lockjaw. For the whole time i went i spoke to people about twice, but it was a step. I joined a voluntary group and that was better because you were forced to talk and to socialise. It got easier the more i did it. It is much easier and 'safe' for you to sit at home and be comfortable, if lonely. Dont put doing something off till tomorrow cos tomorrow never comes. Bite the bullet and do something now. You are literate, you have opinions and can talk, if you have no confidence and cant do it alone, get the therapy recommended and start changing. You want it very badly but it isnt going to happen without taking the risk!

Pharcyde

The fact that you have come on here and have talked openly indicates you have no problem with social skills. Does the annonimity have an appeal?

Why not use this as a springboard and get involved in more discussions online; find a thread of interest and get posting. One of the key elements of any relationship, be it romantic or platonic(?) is shared interest. If you dont find a thread or forum you are interested in, create one. Get talking to people and bfore you know you will be part of a community who all have a shared interest.

What are your hobbies? how do you spend your spare time? Do you live in a small town or big city?

The fact that all these people are talking to you, and you talking to them mean that there is nothing stopping you except the past.

Don't get caught up in what you haven't done. Concentrate on what you are going to do.

LegacyUser

Once again a big thanks for the advice offered in your posts. I have managed to take some action because of this support, went to the GP yesterday who prescribed some anti-ds and put me in touch with a psychiatric service who listened to my problem, didn’t offer a word of advice, but have informed a counsellor who should be in touch to arrange an appointment. In the meantime I will be going back to them next week to assess the dosage of the drugs prescribed. Having started the process I am anxious to maintain the momentum, I don’t want my present good mood to slip away only for me to give up and revert to type. I know this is a possibility because I have on one occasion in the past been prescribed anti-ds which when they didn’t work as I would have liked I never returned to the GP after finishing the course. But I do think this time is the beginning of something and I that will carry on is due in large part to the fact that you guys have bothered to answer MY post in a sincere and sympathetic manner.

I would like to thank BrianD3 again, for putting me in touch with Dr Gilmartin’s book. As Brian says, this is not actually a self help book more an academic text book written for the layman (patronizingly so at times) seeking to explain the condition of the Love-Shy male. Personally I don’t like this term and it was a big turn off because it implies concentrating on the relationship with the opposite sex, but what I have read I can relate to many areas in my life: work, family, my childhood and teens. I find it scary really how its like reading about myself after all these years reading useless s**t in the Sunday papers. I had massive hopes for this book until I followed some of the links from www.love-shy.com and also compared BrianD3s’ posts with Hadsameproblems’. It would appear that Dr Gilmartin does not offer any real achievable practical advice (hence the book is out of print) and seems to have little faith in therapy being a success for those he terms Love-Shy (about 1.5% of American males at time of writing). So any thoughts of this being the book that turns my life around may be premature but I will continue reading if for no other reason than to understand what makes me tick. It did, however, confirm my assumption that there are no women out there in my predicament.

As to all those kind offers to go for beer, oh how I laughed when it was suggested that I go to a boards beer, I can see the scene: “So who are you?”, “Namewitheld”, “You’re that guy, I heard about you, you sad b*****d” followed by a lot of laughter and rolling about the floor. So no, I really don’t think so. Mojomaker, I would have been seriously tempted by a smaller group or one to one meeting, but probably wouldn’t have had the balls to go through with it. Either way it really doesn’t matter because I don’t live in the country at the moment. I left Dublin in the hope a bigger city would present more opportunity to meet people, but I knew I was kidding myself, as the size of the city doesn’t matter a bit. But it has helped in some ways, I do things now that I never did in Dublin, then again there are things I don’t do as much as I would like because of the cost and effort involved.
Beruthiel thanks for the offer but I have set up an email address, namewitheld.piforum@virgin.net, should anyone be interested.

i thought everything I had to say was so dull and everyone was more interesting/happy/exciting than me. i felt foolish and judged and stupid.

This is exactly how I feel now and have done for many years. This is why I have only ever once, that I can recall (since 16ish), asked another person (excluding family) to pass the time of day with me be it for lunch, a drink or even the cinema. I accept its is going to take a hell of a lot to overturn 14yrs of negativity about myself but here’s hoping.

Victor

I think we've reached a certain point in this thread, so I'm closing it. Feel free to open another.