M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

ianobrien

As someone who would benefit greatly from the Steering Group's "suggestion" of going via Ballygarvan and the airport, I'm bloody delighted. The current N28 is so overwhelmed that any idiot could see that it's needed and the Kinsale Rd roundabout is fairly full in the morning. When it comes in, I'll be slow to use my rat run of the Ballygarvan - Ringaskiddy. I know people who use rat runs through Rochestown and Passage West who will be delighted with this.

I'm still wondering was one of the reasons Brittany Ferries moved away from Ringaskiddy for the Spanish ferry to Rosslare is that, as the traffic is so bad at the Tunnel & on the N28, truckers couldn't time their journey time reliably? From talking to truckers on ferries out of Dublin and Rosslare, knowing your journey times to get to the boat is very important. They can't afford to spend an hour sitting on the N28 or the Tunnel

Kevtherev1

The M28 steering group stated their strategy on their facebook page June 2020. See the quote post below. As they have no certification to proceed to Court of Appeal. Their only option now is to ask the supreme court to hear their case. Justice McGrath has stated he not satisfied the points made by m28 steering group reached the high bar of being in the public interest to proceed further

As a reminder.... the process requires us in the first instance to ask the high court for permission/ certification to proceed to the court of appeal......

If the high court refuses certification we cannot go to the court of appeal and must proceed directly to the Supreme Court.

Hibernicis

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/residents-cannot-appeal-m28-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-decision-1037892.html

No appeal allowed by Justice McGrath. Is this the end of the road?

Great news. The Steering Group still have the option to petition the Supreme Court. The bar is high and they will need to have a very strong legal point in their favour to get a hearing.

Fred Cryton

Good news. However what are the chances of the Greens scuppering this with their anti road agenda. Catherine Martin will have to push it forward which surely won't play well with her party.

Cork Trucker

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Good news. However what are the chances of the Greens scuppering this with their anti road agenda. Catherine Martin will have to push it forward which surely won't play well with her party.

Is Hildegarde Naughton not the one who is minister of state at the department of transport?

marno21

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Good news. However what are the chances of the Greens scuppering this with their anti road agenda. Catherine Martin will have to push it forward which surely won't play well with her party.

No it’s under Hildegarde Naughton’s brief of roads air and sea. Dunkettle got approved a month ago and this is more strategic so there will be no issues there.

Kevtherev1

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

The M28 steering group stated their strategy on their facebook page June 2020. See the quote post below. As they have no certification to proceed to Court of Appeal. Their only option now is to ask the supreme court to hear their case. Justice McGrath has stated he not satisfied the points made by m28 steering group reached the high bar of being in the public interest to proceed further

It would be unlikely the supreme court would hear their case. Appeal to supreme court only if several points of law are deemed of exceptional public interest. But who knows?

Markcheese

But do the state have to wait for x amount of time for them to put in a supreme court appeal ..
They were talking of going all the way to europe ..

Cork Trucker

Markcheese wrote: »

But do the state have to wait for x amount of time for them to put in a supreme court appeal ..
They were talking of going all the way to europe ..

21 days

European Union are part or fully funding it

mydiscworld

My guess is the steering group will wait the 21 days and lodge the appeal last minute to be heard by Surpreme Court.

That ruling on whether they can get into Surpreme court will take months, even if likely rejected. Delay is the only game they have left I'd say.

cantalach

mydiscworld wrote: »

That ruling on whether they can get into Surpreme court will take months, even if likely rejected.

Especially when the SC is down a man at the moment

Jlayay

Motorway/regular Cork buses to Ringaskiddy, then a regular ferry service to the UK with rail connection to London would be handy enough.

Hibernicis

Interesting times.

The self appointed steering group have 21 days to petition the Supreme Court (previously this was 28 days, reduced to 21 days in 2019). In general these are lodged on the last day, and that is understandable given the coordination and other work involved. It’s a simple process, a one or two page document setting out the exceptional circumstances upon which it is contended that the granting of leave to appeal is necessary.

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Costs must be mounting and this ruling will certainly test the nerve of (1) whoever it is that is bankrolling the M28 Steering Committee (2) the commitment of O’Connell & Clarke, solicitors to the M28 Steering Committee and “THE Environmental & Planning Litigation Firm” (also self appointed). 

Very positive that the European route (CJEU) has been blocked off. This was a potential black hole that could have added 2/3 years to the process and I suspect was where O’Connell & Clarke wanted to take it for a bit of reputational enhancement. As the Donald would say, BIG WIN that this has been blocked off.

Should the Steering Group decide to petition the Supreme Court (and I suspect they will, subject of course to the continued support of their financial backers and the forbearance and continued interest of O’Connell & Clarke) the Supreme Court can be expected to make a quick decision (generally within 2/3 months) on whether or not to allow the appeal. If the decision is No, then that is the end of the road (edit: appaling pun, it’s actually the start of the M28 getting built).  If the Supreme Court accepts the appeal then the time wasting will run for another couple of years.

Hibernicis

And with that, we have the votes of the Norwegian Jury.... hot off the press from the Steering Group Facebook page

High Court Dublin
17th November 2020
Certification for leave to appeal
Refused
_________________________________
Hi all,
Please be advised that our submission for leave to appeal the High Court judgement on 19th December 2019 has been refused, consequently we cannot proceed directly to the Court of Appeal.
Whilst not unexpected it is still very disappointing to say the least.
Todays decision gives effect for the M28 to proceed however it is our intention (should the legal advice suggest) to proceed to petition the Supreme Court to hear our case. Should the Supreme Court accept our petition for hearing then we move forward.
Kind regards,
Gerard Harrington
Chairman
M28 Steering Group

Hibernicis

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/residents-cannot-appeal-m28-cork-ringaskiddy-motorway-decision-1037892.html

No appeal allowed by Justice McGrath. Is this the end of the road?

The article you refer to is so appallingly inaccurate it needs to be called out. I’m quoting it in full for the record:

Local residents who lost a legal challenge to An Bord Pleanala’s approval for a 14km M28 motorway between Cork and Ringaskiddy, were today told they cannot bring an appeal to the Supreme Court.

Mr Justice Michael MacGrath in the High Court refused an umbrella group representing local residents, the M28 Steering Group, leave to appeal to the highest court in the land.

The judge ruled he was not satisfied that the M28 Steering Group had raised points of law of exceptional public importance.

They had sought leave to appeal under Section 50 of the Planning and Development Act which allows an appeal to the Supreme Court if the case involves points of law of exceptional public importance and it is in the public interest an appeal is taken.

The High Court last December dismissed the challenge to An Bord Pleanala's June 2018 decision to grant approval for the motorway.

Paragraph 1. They sought to appeal to the Court of Appeal (COA), not the Supreme Court (SC). 

Paragraph 2.  They sought to appeal to the COA, not the “Highest Court in the land” which is the SC. 

Paragraph 3. This isn’t a requirement when appealing to the COA.

Paragraph 4. They didn’t seek leave to appeal to the SC.  They sought leave to appeal to the COA. 

ianobrien

The Echo has it as well and its probably a bit better than Breaking news.ie

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Locals-cannot-bring-appeal-against-M28-motorway-between-Cork-and-Ringaskiddy-16331547-6f9c-41bc-a7af-2e3a13bff529-ds

Hibernicis

ianobrien wrote: »

The Echo has it as well and its probably a bit better than Breaking news.ie

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Locals-cannot-bring-appeal-against-M28-motorway-between-Cork-and-Ringaskiddy-16331547-6f9c-41bc-a7af-2e3a13bff529-ds

Correct, The Echo piece is far more accurate. The same piece by Ann O’Loughlin also appears in The Examiner

The Irish Times has an article that is very similar to the one appearing in The Echo & Examiner and which bears no resemblance to the breakingnews.ie one (which is a bit odd given that breakingnews.ie is an offshoot of The Irish Times)

hans aus dtschl

Just popping in to say thanks all for the updates and detailed information.

kub

I heard an interview with Mr Harrington of The Steering Group earlier on a news segment, he bought up several points with regard to the proposed Motorway, such items as congestion, traffic fumes, safety etc.

I could not help but wonder was he referring to the existing road.

Anyway he did mention that they will attempt a Supreme Court hearing and if they are not allowed then they are finished with it.

Cork Trucker

I heard the same interview. Sure if the Supreme Court says no that’s it anyway, no?

Leonard Hofstadter

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Good news. However what are the chances of the Greens scuppering this with their anti road agenda. Catherine Martin will have to push it forward which surely won't play well with her party.

Hildegarde Naughton (a FG TD) is in charge of roads and other roads are going to be built during the lifetime of this Government. Indeed, the contract has been signed to make Dunkettle free flow only last month.

The ratio is 2:1 after roads maintenance and cycling / walking have been excluded. So the more money that is available after those items have been allocated, the more money there is for both roads and public transport. So it's in the Green's interest for there to be more money on new roads projects as that means there will be more for public transport, too.

A second point is that this project, along with the Limerick - Foynes scheme, are requirements under the EU's TEN-T directive. So that means even if there wasn't that guaranteed money on roads, this would have to be done to keep the EU happy.

Anyway, it's a good day for the parish that this is getting one step closer, and that the route to Europe and to a Court of Appeal has been closed off, even if as predictably as night follows day, the so-called steering group wants to go to the Supreme Court.

kub

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Hildegarde Naughton (a FG TD) is in charge of roads and other roads are going to be built during the lifetime of this Government. Indeed, the contract has been signed to make Dunkettle free flow only last month.

The ratio is 2:1 after roads maintenance and cycling / walking have been excluded. So the more money that is available after those items have been allocated, the more money there is for both roads and public transport. So it's in the Green's interest for there to be more money on new roads projects as that means there will be more for public transport, too.

A second point is that this project, along with the Limerick - Foynes scheme, are requirements under the EU's TEN-T directive. So that means even if there wasn't that guaranteed money on roads, this would have to be done to keep the EU happy.

Anyway, it's a good day for the parish that this is getting one step closer, and that the route to Europe and to a Court of Appeal has been closed off, even if as predictably as night follows day, the so-called steering group wants to go to the Supreme Court.

With reference to The Green Party and this Government agreement, I wonder does this apply also to this project?


I thought it was EU funds that were paying for the M28 as opposed to Government funds and this project is in the pipeline now for quite a few years.


It also seems to me that at this stage all the Steering Committee have now is a mechanism to further delay the start of this project which will be going ahead regardless.


It is a pity that they cannot see the greater good here rather than their own, now pointless claims.

KrisW1001

Yes, M28 is EU-funded.

To their credit, the Green Party has been largely mute on this project. Perhaps, like me, they realise that it's most likely to be a net gain to the environment: a freer-flowing route for goods traffic would actually reduce greenhouse emissions in the long run, and improve air quality. The fastest a HGV can travel is 80km/h, regardless of road type, so changing a road to one with less obstructions, sharp bends or steep gradients will result in a small fuel saving for every single journey. Yes, there's a huge carbon cost in constructing the road, but those fuel savings must offset it some way. The question is how much, and how long before the construction CO2 debt is repaid. I'd be interested to see if anyone has ever studied this and come up with a breakeven point on CO2 emissions from motorway construction.

Cork Trucker

A HGV can do 90KM/H flat out on a motorway, albeit not on this one I suspect.

marno21

https://play.acast.com/s/corks-96-fm-opinion-line/2020-11-18coradesmond-couldsheactuallykillme-thelatestfromthedebenhamspicketline-visitingnursinghomesinlockdown-more - 32 mins in

Discussion with M28 Steering Group chair and the head of Cork Chamber.

Very one sided interview. The M28 Steering Group are taking a case about protecting a wildlife habitat in Raffeen, scratching my head as to what trucks going through Rochestown has to do with that. Again with the trucks rumbling through back gardens stuff at the Cork Chamber CEO. They already do. The locals get the added benefit of having the best access to the Cork suburban road network of anywhere in the area.

No questions directed towards the chairman about the quarry either and why a number of residents in Rochestown are funding a petition to the Supreme Court to protect a quarry in Raffeen.

Doesn't really add up to me. Seems to me there's very little chance of this going any further. The Supreme Court is not the place where this sort of stuff gets decided on. The battle was lost at An Bord Pleanala.

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

https://play.acast.com/s/corks-96-fm-opinion-line/2020-11-18coradesmond-couldsheactuallykillme-thelatestfromthedebenhamspicketline-visitingnursinghomesinlockdown-more - 32 mins in

Discussion with M28 Steering Group chair and the head of Cork Chamber.

Very one sided interview. The M28 Steering Group are taking a case about protecting a wildlife habitat in Raffeen, scratching my head as to what trucks going through Rochestown has to do with that. Again with the trucks rumbling through back gardens stuff at the Cork Chamber CEO. They already do. The locals get the added benefit of having the best access to the Cork suburban road network of anywhere in the area.

No questions directed towards the chairman about the quarry either and why a number of residents in Rochestown are funding a petition to the Supreme Court to protect a quarry in Raffeen.

Doesn't really add up to me. Seems to me there's very little chance of this going any further. The Supreme Court is not the place where this sort of stuff gets decided on. The battle was lost at An Bord Pleanala.

Marno i've C&P'd your post to add it to the 'Douglas for M28' Facebook group. If that's ok with you?

kub

marno21 wrote: »

https://play.acast.com/s/corks-96-fm-opinion-line/2020-11-18coradesmond-couldsheactuallykillme-thelatestfromthedebenhamspicketline-visitingnursinghomesinlockdown-more - 32 mins in

Discussion with M28 Steering Group chair and the head of Cork Chamber.

Very one sided interview. The M28 Steering Group are taking a case about protecting a wildlife habitat in Raffeen, scratching my head as to what trucks going through Rochestown has to do with that. Again with the trucks rumbling through back gardens stuff at the Cork Chamber CEO. They already do. The locals get the added benefit of having the best access to the Cork suburban road network of anywhere in the area.

No questions directed towards the chairman about the quarry either and why a number of residents in Rochestown are funding a petition to the Supreme Court to protect a quarry in Raffeen.

Doesn't really add up to me. Seems to me there's very little chance of this going any further. The Supreme Court is not the place where this sort of stuff gets decided on. The battle was lost at An Bord Pleanala.

The presenter of the show lives on Maryborough Hill, maybe that is why it seemed a bit one sided.

Cork Trucker

kub wrote: »

The presenter of the show lives on Maryborough Hill, maybe that is why it seemed a bit one sided.

He never says he was for it either, I think he has his own reservations on it

mydiscworld

So if they do appeal to try to go to supreme court, how long before a hearing? And then a decision? Could be 6+ months yet

Cork Trucker

mydiscworld wrote: »

So if they do appeal to try to go to supreme court, how long before a hearing? And then a decision? Could be 6+ months yet

The Supreme Court have to agree to hear it first, there’s no guarantees they will say yes to that