Those dastardly Taliban

Belisarius

*Last one I promise...2:30 and The bed calls*
Euch ...you exaspirate me ... You cant really compare it to Nazi book burning , when i said it did rate too highly ,I meant it didnt rate at all , I mean you spoke of eradicating the buddist afghani Culture and heritage ,that was done when islam first moved in . In the Talhebans search for search for a Islamic Puritan state , theyre really only clearing up . The last place youd find outcry about theese statues is Afghanistan , theese statues mean nothing to your average Johnny Afghani , Theyre only one thing unislamic ,its not exactly a mature stance but its the truth ...But then the whole question of Governmental responsibility comes up and State/Church Fudge makes it that the Talheban is actually the Governmental extension of the Quoran..if you get my drift , which i believe ive lost at this stage ..

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Time waits for No man ...except Bob MaClean the Sex Machine

TwoShedsJackson

So this is what happen when fundamentalist religious maniacs get into power - quelle surprise.

If they find the statues so offensive they should take up India's offer to remove them whole and resite them in India - and probably get a pile of cash off India for so doing.

But they decided to milk the publicity value as mentioned earlier - for every right-thinking person who is appalled by this act of cultural & historical destruction there will be a Taliban supporter who will become even more entrenched.

As regards sanctions and such I sincerely doubt the Taliban give a damn about that - they want to return Afghanistan to a self-sufficent agrarian economy a la Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge anyway.

They disgust me.

adnans

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Belisarius:
Gafaffi is just one in a long list of Negative influences throughout the word who gets picked on due to US desire to "Get out there and Kick some ass" Think Castro , The Iatollah , Sadam Hussein and Milosovich
I mean please</font>

by God man, i can see Castro being one of those "negative" influences (dont know about Gadaffi since i have soft spot for him since i was born there) . but for sadam (for one he is mad, i tell ye) and especially milosevic who is just ****ed up.

I was praying for the day that the Americans decided and said, "Jesus H Christ, what the **** are we allowing here to happen and for the rest of the world to watch as it is some kind of a soap opera". to my recollection, the war in former yugoslavia, (focus on bosnia mainly) started in april 1991, and it wasnt untill may 1995 when the NATO air strikes occured and by then it was too late.

It was estimated that by the end of 1994 at least 200,000 people had died and more than 2,000,000 had been driven from their homes (including me)

as for the taliban, they are indeed quite mad. full stop

adnans

DadaKopf

There's one question worth considering, though: are we, as Westerners, able to legitimately condemn the 'solutions' of Islamic extremists in the Middle East as well as the pacific rim?

Just as one example, Singapore has been led by one political party, the People's Action Party, since the city-state's birth and since then, they have led like a popularly elected oligarchy. The PAP is an authoritarian government who extensively interfere in people's lives daily (like banning chewing gum, banning of long lair and things like voluntary steralisation for the poorer members of society). Despite these measures, the Singaporeans have actively kept them in power for over 30 years because they genuinely like what they do - despite many criticisms from the West.

Is it really justifiable that Islamic extremism be condemned for being led by a bunch of 'mad Mullahs' who threaten inviolable civil liberties or should it be viewed that they have every right to return to the Qu'ran if they wish?

Surely it is the misinterpretation of the Qu'ran, the hypocrisy, actual physical abuse and Islamic Fundamentalism as an ideology being used as a method of ruthless oligarchy that should be questioned and/or condemned. Not the will of the people to find their own methods to solve their own problems?

[one thought: is Islamic Fundamentalism the modern day equivalent of Soviet 'perpetual revolution'?]

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"I collect spores, moulds and fungus."

Belisarius

I can tell you now ...Sadam hussein is a Malevolent Despot who rules his country in a manner contrary to the beliefs of Democratic nation but He isnt mad

The Idea that he is "mad" Is an Image forced upon the people of the western world by the combined powers of government to Justify thier purely Political/Economic reasons to come down on theese 2 bit backwater countries
I mean ...why did Desert storm start? ...Iraq invaded the traditional Iraqi provence of Kuwait , made a country due to National redrafts of the last century . Purely to protect the secure supply of crude Oil which the Kuwaitis offered the Western Alliance Demonised the Iraqi people and thier leader and began to assault Iraq with a level of technology and pure numbers that the Iraqis could not hope to defend against , at the expense of the Iraqi Civilian population
An Example
Mid 80s when Iran was the world bad-guy...who was the US's ally in the middle East? ...your friend and mine Sadam Hussein .

The US betrayed the Iraq which it had backed despite all its faults and Undemocratic "Ideosyncrises" Such policies can be seen worldwide ...Latin America in particular

*also A similar point can be made on behalf of Serbia but I cant be arsed*

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Time waits for No man ...except Bob MaClean the Sex Machine

Belisarius

Back to the Talheban

Bang on Dadakoph. Whatever we think of it we must respect theese Islamic peoples faith , however where Islam / Govermental fudge does confuse things , I also dont believe theylltake india up on the offer , theyve been backed into a corner on this and the statues are as good as gone.

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Time waits for No man ...except Bob MaClean the Sex Machine

neuro-praxis

I am not well enough informed on this issue to give my full view on the subject as it stands, but I must agree with those that say that we cannot simply dismiss the Islamic faith simply because it does not make sense to us Western Worlders. It deserves our respect.

Although, I *must* maintain that, despite having faith myself, I firmly believe that religion and politics should not mix. We have seen the consequences of this a few years back in our own country.

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Give me back my towel. I'll sue.

Celt

0_o
You go cat!) )

Belisarius

Well thats the thing isnt it ...
Islam is a far more... Pervasive religion than Lapse Catholocism and Christianity... It has a massive influence on peoples lives and in a deprived country like Afghanistan Its no wonder Religon fills the void of leadership which a weak government leaves open ...Oi that is Ireland in the past ! I take it all back

Clintons Cat

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by WhiteLancer:
0_o
You go cat!) )</font>

I really cant be bothered to turn up the heat on all the half truths,contradictions and bigotry in Bels posts,So i am just gonna chill out and rip the **** out of his arguements.
"Sadam was US Friend" Ho hum,"the Emirate of Kuwait an invention of colonial powers" tum tie tum,
"Afgans dont give a hoot about their pre islamic culture" hooboiy,"Milosovich is a misunderstood victim of US Agression" hum di ho."Islam never should have been a religon of the magnitude its reached" what???"Islam is a combination of several religion mixed in with some very practical Ideology which just happened to manifest into a very sound religion" Oh dear and Christianty has no foundations in Judaesim i suppose?
"The same is true of most religions (The Islamic conquests of the eary middle ages and its direct comparison the the Christian crusades eh ? eh?)"well your forgetting the Spanish Inquisition,The Conquest Of the Aztecs,incas,and Mayas,The Ligitimisation of the colonisation of North America and the attempts to forcibly re-educate aboriginee children in misionary schools but i will be magnaminous and let it pass."Colonel gadaffi is a Islamic fundamentalist *that is to say he believes fundamentaly in the idea of Islam rather than the dorogatory stigma of "rabble-rousery" "and the fact he espouses it contary to all evidence to the contary proves what an idealistic basket case he really is"the First world needs a Hate Figure"yes and his name is Bill Gates"Think Castro , The Iatollah , Sadam Hussein and Milosovich"ok i am thinking about them now what?Telheban isnt strictly a political organisation well apart from the fact it opperates in every way shape and form as a political organisation but heyYou cant really compare it to Nazi book burningyes i can and i did,well to be nitpickingly truthful i compared it to their destruction of Works of Art,sculptures and paintings the fact you have not researched into the motives behind it is not my problem,The last place youd find outcry about theese statues is Afghanistannot suprising as the afgans stiffle all political dissentTalheban is actually the Governmental extension of the Quoranno they are a political organisationMid 80s when Iran was the world bad-guy...who was the US's ally in the middle East? ...your friend and mine Sadam Hussein oh dear nice to see you know all about the UN arms embargoThe US betrayed the Iraqnice choice of wordsA similar point can be made on behalf of Serbia but I cant be arsedsuch a shame i would love to hear how it fits your anti islamic,anti US worldveiw,Whatever we think of it we must respect theese Islamic peoples faith,but not those islamic peoples faith that respects other peoples culture and heratige?
just a you give greater credence to the egyptians who call for the dismantling of their pre islamic heratige than those including the democratically elected government of Egypt which follows the muslim tradition of presavation of holy sites,faith and religions

What A Leftist Liberal Wet

Sorry like i said i really cant be bothered to turn up the heat.



[This message has been edited by Clintons Cat (edited 06-03-2001).]

Belisarius

Ohh Cat you Ignorant Cur
*expect a thrashing rebuttle In about an hour when I come back from CS*

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Time waits for No man ...except Bob MaClean the Sex Machine

Clintons Cat

oh i can hardly wait,
try to get your facts straight this time though.

where do you want to start? Milosevic,Sadamn,The Taleban?

More Fuel Baby,

Belisarius

Oh dearie me...this will be a long one

Ok I'll take each bit of this rather trite post in order


""Sadam was US Friend" Ho hum"

Misquote me why dont you ...and yes the US considered Iraq and ally in the middle east during the early/middle 80s due to Iraqs role in the Iran/Iraq war from 1980 to 1988 .However US's friendship soured quickly with the Invasion of Kuwait

CC said
""the Emirate of Kuwait an invention of colonial powers" tum tie tum,"

I *Bel* quote
". Kuwait was nominally a province of the Ottoman Empire, ruled from Constantinople. "

I never intented to state that Kuwait was ever a part of the Iraqi state...rather Historically a provence of Greater Iraq *under the otttomans* .

Replied to
"Afgans dont give a hoot about their pre islamic culture"
with:
hooboiy

Thats not what I said , did I ? . What I said is that the Afgans are an Islamic people and hold no reverance for theese statues which date back Centuries to Buddhist times

CC:
"Milosovich is a misunderstood victim of US Agression" hum di ho

Not what I said again. Milosovich got what was coming to him . But reguardless he was a victim picked out of from all the other , still untouched despots of the globe for world attention to fix upon .and the US Aggression was far from wholesome


CC:
"Islam never should have been a religon of the magnitude its reached" what???

Bel:
What do you mean what?...Most Islamic lands were only Islamic on account of the fact that they were subjigated by Arabian Warriors who stormed through much of Northern Africa/ Middle East / Central Aisia/ wherever during the early middle ages . not by any mass conversion to the faith , by which way most religions spread

CC:
Islam is a combination of several religion mixed in with some very practical Ideology which just happened to manifest into a very sound religion" Oh dear and Christianty has no foundations in Judaesim i suppose?

Bel: Well thats true ...kind of. The fact of the matter is I just wasnt referring to any other religion in that post
However the fact remains that Islam occured several centuries after Christianity , and even further beyond Judaeism. Christianity , while an equal novice in comparison to Zionism , is formed openly upon the Jewish people , *IE: The Isrealites being the chosen people . still im no priest and havent been to mass in a bit so we'll move on



CC:
"The same is true of most religions (The Islamic conquests of the eary middle ages and its direct comparison the the Christian crusades eh ? eh?)"well your forgetting the Spanish Inquisition,The Conquest Of the Aztecs,incas,and Mayas,The Ligitimisation of the colonisation of North America and the attempts to forcibly re-educate aboriginee children in misionary schools but i will be magnaminous and let it pass

Bel:
Hate to pull the rug from under the legs of such a levithian act of Charity but I hadnt forgotten , the argument was about Islam and the various blunders of the christian church isnt relevant


Again CC posted:
Colonel gadaffi is a Islamic fundamentalist *that is to say he believes fundamentaly in the idea of Islam rather than the dorogatory stigma of "rabble-rousery" "and the fact he espouses it contary to all evidence to the contary proves what an idealistic basket case he really is

Eh?...youve lost me ...but I from what i get youre taking the CNN perspective , Gadaffi was generally outed by the western world for his outspoken views on the US's pet in the middle east , Isreal . But mainly for his sponsorship of various Islamic Paramilitary groups * He also sent the Ira several arms shipments one of which was intercepted a while back*.Theese were responsible for a few bombings in the 80s ...evidence to the contrary would be most welcome

CC continued:
the First world needs a Hate Figure"yes and his name is Bill Gates

Bel: Halleluia brother!

CC:
"Think Castro , The Iatollah , Sadam Hussein and Milosovich"ok i am thinking about them now what?

Bel:
I meant them as references to former Hate figures ...cheeky!


CC:
"Telheban isnt strictly a political organisation" well apart from the fact it opperates in every way shape and form as a political organisation but hey

Well It isnt you silly man! The Talheban was originally a Terrorist force part of the Islamic coalition who fought the soviets in Aghanistan *See: Rambo 4 * They emerged as the dominant power in Afghanistan when the Soviets pulled out. This paramilitary organisation eventually took on the form of a Despotic government while maintaining concrete military and religous ties . This you see Cat , makes them not STRICTLY a Political organisation .

The naieve CC trudged on

"You cant really compare it to Nazi book burning" yes i can and i did,well to be nitpickingly truthful i compared it to their destruction of Works of Art,sculptures and paintings the fact you have not researched into the motives behind it is not my problem,

Well you can compare it ...but youd be wrong Book burnings in Nazi germany were Intended to suppress ideals contrary to National socialism , which a predomidantly Literate germany could get thier hands on . The reason the Buddist artefacts are being destroyed is because they ,under the writings of the quoran , mock the one true god *Allan er.. Allah* . The chances of a mass flocking of Afgans to buddhism are ....negligible


Lets press on


",The last place youd find outcry about theese statues is Afghanistan"not suprising as the afgans stiffle all political dissent


Well yes Political Dissent , the fact remains Afghanistan is totally Islamic. And theyre not too educated either...so theyre hardly chaining themselves to the statues like demented eco warriors proclaiming "This is a travesty to our heritage and an assault on our culture" hmmnnn?


"Talheban is actually the Governmental extension of the Quoran" no they are a political organisation

Well again I protest . The current manifesto of the Talheban is to achieve a "Pure Islamic state" , so apart from the counterargument put to you earlier about the Talhebans particulars , Im bang on


CC said
Mid 80s when Iran was the world bad-guy...who was the US's ally in the middle East? ...your friend and mine Sadam Hussein oh dear nice to see you know all about the UN arms embargo

Oh ! How old are you six? ... Id expected better
The Embargos were implemented in the early 90s after Desert storm!
sheesh , Your telling me to get my facts straight?


CC said
"The US betrayed the Iraq"nice choice of words

.... eh... Oh shut up!

CC continued :
"A similar point can be made on behalf of Serbia but I cant be arsed" such a shame i would love to hear how it fits your anti islamic,anti US worldveiw

Bel:
You know I could do it but again my **** is unwilling ,another thread perhaps..


CC went on to say:
"Whatever we think of it we must respect theese Islamic peoples faith",but not those islamic peoples faith that respects other peoples culture and heratige?

Bel:
Well yes Id agree with that point alright ... the only thing id say though Is that Buddhism has long since left afghanistan...The only people they disrespect are long since gone , Its concerning for the past generations of Buddhist Afgans but not really worth
an International incident

CC said
just a you give greater credence to the egyptians who call for the dismantling of their pre islamic heratige than those including the democratically elected government of Egypt which follows the muslim tradition of presavation of holy sites,faith and religions

Hmmn ..thats true... I might have fudged a bit here... What I meant *and really only Hypothicised* was that on some psychological level Islamic Egyptians were proabably offended by the premise that thier National Identity was dominated by the Ancient egyptian pagans while thier current Islamic heritage was overlooked in the eyes of the world ..long shot but proabably correct on some level


And so , with what CC thought was a final victory *far from* he finished on an Insult

" What A Leftist Liberal Wet "
Well yeah maybe ...but at least Im pretty


Burn baby burn

-Belisarius

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Time waits for No man ...except Bob MaClean the Sex Machine

DadaKopf

now, I'm a strong supporter of leaders, nations and countries who are targeted by the west. Though Saddam IS a despot and fits the psychological make up Nixon did, it may still be viewed that he is used by the west willingly or unwillingly and vice-versa. It's impossible to know how dangerous he really is because of the huge amound of media disinformation for and against, be it liberal or conservative rhetoric. The truth is that Iraq WAS one of the most advanced and developed middle-eastern countries until western intervention - women enjoyed equal status in the workplace, there was and is a separation of church and state and Iraq was well on its way to becoming a modern state with dominant middle-eastern social trends. nothing wrong with that, right? Since then, the west has contributed to 'impoving' global democracy by disrupting Iraq and the whole region economically - call is ideological globalisation.

The same is true for former Yugoslavia. That area has been messed around with by the Turks, the Italians, the Austrians and Greeks not to mention subject to decisive and damaging treaties by the European empires and all this has done is to destablise the region and cause problems. However, I can't support Belisarius when he says that he supports Milosevic as a victim of western interference.

Yugoslavia was damaged socio-economically by Tito, following his final constitution, then by his death; this left yugoslavia with a dislocated culture where people became poorer and poorer and genuine socio-economic divisions gave way to religious/national scapegoating. Yugoslavians returned to good old reliable altered history and religion to rally support one way or another. In the end, Milosevic [the dullest man on earth] saw these issues as a great method for him to sieze power, no matter what the cost. He didn't quell Serbian nationalism because he believes in it - he just wanted power. He is a classic megalomaniac, he's changed his ideas so many times he's hardly sure who he is other than he's a power freak. That's what he was and is dangerous: he turned to inciting hatred and racism and murder to fuel his political machine.

Sure the europeans and NATO used the opportunity to play around with the region some more and fuse developing relationships but the difference between iraq and yugoslavia is that the latter almost caused a large scale euopean conflict.

you can condemn milosevic but saddam and the persian region is different. Only localised conflict would happen [kirds, iran]. The question is oil, political sway and big business - why, since the embargo and sanctions were put in place, the french and brits have been moving in poising themslelves to open up a new market. it's all economics - they don't give a stuff about saving iraq from a crazy leader.

this is bloody long winded but all i'm saying is that you have to be more careful painting people and places with one brush - whether you're a pro-american, pro-West or anti-those. yada yada.

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"I collect spores, moulds and fungus."

Belisarius

Its like you Cut my head open and took bits of my brain , On the ball Koph

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Time waits for No man ...except Bob MaClean the Sex Machine

bugler

ye hijacked me post,ye big h00rs.
anyway,see the "i have to finish my daddy's war" post on this board for more of the same.
as for the biggest threat to the taliban(it wouldbe for the best for all if they were toppled)that would be from Afghans themselves.Civil war is still goin on,and the Taliban don't have the utter strangle hold on the country u might be led to believe.His biggest rivals the "Mujahadeen"(just nicked from all afghan fighters in the russian war)led by Commander Massoud,are still causing a ruckus. they had been forced back into holding about 10% of the country, but Massoud is a serious military tactician and as of 99/00 had gotten back around 40%.Forgive me if i'm wrong(its been way too long since I read in some depth about this,and my info is out of date),but apparently he had artillery within range of Kabul,but refused to use it becuase of the risk to civilian life(dubious?). Iran does supply him but not directly,as do India,this is just another stage in the region for India and Pakistan to exchange blows.Pakistan not only supply the Taliban but Pakistani special forces have directly fought in the conflict, and their air force has bombed Massoud's forces(apparently with civilian casualties,nothing surprising there). Well anyway,im not saying that Massoud would bring anymore stability(country is sure to be deadlocked for some time) or would be a kind and wise ruler,but surely his side gaining control over the country would be better than the Taliban.Lesser of two evils? maybe,butits a pity that none of the western countries don't really give a **** about afghanistan.....
Out of sight(and money interests) out of mind eh?

Clintons Cat

Good Topic though.

One thing the Taleban have managed to do by threatening the destruction of the Idols is to mobilise world opinion against themselves.Given Pakistans emnity to India the offer to resite these idols will probally be declined.This gives the Taleban two choices to go ahead and destroy the idols thus proving their fundamentalist credentials or accept UN mediation and preserve the statues as some kind of world heratige deal.
Bel i hate to argue with you but although budhism might no longer be practised within afganistan but it has adherents throughout the globe for whom the statues have a spiritual and cultural significance.The fact they hold no importance to modern Afgan culture is beside the point.
My point on the Nazis seems to be a little oblique so i will try to explain what i mean rather than just flame.In the thirties the Nazis destroyed not only jewish text on literature and science they also destroyed works of art that dealt with concepts of Pacifism,Humanism and Compassion.Such things were considered "Ungermanic".There is little place in the harsh world veiw of the taleban for compassion.Thus the idols which not only represent a very different spiritual perspective to islam but which are testement to a more compassionate type of islam that the taleban find an affront.It Challenges their devine right to rule Absolute.


oh and just in case you think i have gone soft
"The Embargos were implemented in the early 90s after Desert storm!
sheesh , Your telling me to get my facts straight?"
Yes.The Arms imbargo was implemented during the Iraq Iran War,Look up the Matrix Churchill Scandle and Irangate for evidence of shameful duplicity of the west on both sides of the conflict

I Am Nothing If Not Inconsistant

Belisarius

Ah yes The Mujahadeen . They were the stats of the Afgan war ...it suprised me originally that the Talheban ended up in control , but As you pointed out It may not bet for too long . as for the lesser of two evils . I couldnt imagine the Mujahadeen being much better.

As for you , CC *ya scamp*
True the Idols do have a relevance in Buddhism . But they do also has relevance to Islam in the sense that Quoran states they are "Graven Images" *not sure about that phrase * that is to say that they mock the one true allah . so while theyre destruction is abhorrent to the Buddhist world , theyre perisistence in afghanistanis also offensive ...The removal idea was a good one , but International focus now prevents . Unfortunate , It seems they will be destroyed.

As for the German Issue , Alright Ill give you that one , just wasnt very clear on yer stance

As for the embargos , your points on the US's interferance are bang on , however it doesnt amount to an embargo rather a ban on the Importation of weapons .The real sanctions *food Medicine machinery ect* this was more for International show than for any actual purpose . , Indeed the Duplicity was in reality almost totally intervention on the side of Iraq against Iran. This , in the world we know today is jokingly reffered to as "Peace Keeping"

-Bel

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Shrewgar!

Clintons Cat

i am glad i managed to explain the book burning analogy sorry if i got a little hot under the collar before

i ve been on the UN Website and even they are flaming the Afgans Quote from www.un.org

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The Director-General<Mr. Matsuura > took the occasion to report to participants about various initiatives being undertaken to "reverse this move into absurdity undertaken by the authorities in Kabul."
Last night, Mr. Matsuura convened an emergency meeting of Ambassadors from UNESCO's 54 Member States that belong to the Organization of the Islamic Conference. "Their voices unanimously came together in vigorous condemnation of these unacceptable attacks on humanity's common heritage," the Director-General said today. "Like me, they feel helpless but are equally determined to join me in taking concrete action."</font>

Strong Stuff Indeed.

Excelsior

i just particuarly like the lunacy of this quote from Belisarius
"Islam is a far more... Pervasive religion than... Christianity... "

even a Christian like myself has to wonder.
do you mean that islam is presuasive in the live's of its followers in a way Christianity can not be. and that this leads to the violent acts of islamic fundamentalism, terrorism or "politics" in the form represented by the taliban?

because if that is what you mean, i unfortunately have to inform you that some Christians are rather violent too. and can blow up abortion clinics sometimes. and can be politically right wing beyond all decency.


if you mean that it is persuasive in the lives of its faithful, in the amount of devotion it generates and the power of the faithful's convictions, then i disagree again.
you may not know any, but your own city is filled with people who are living as dedicated a Christian life as they can.

i just need clarification on this. the trendiness of the comment quoted seems to mirror the contridictions of many of your other trendy comments.

bugler

Well I'm too lazy to read through/find the exact piece you have taken Bel's quote from,but it seems to me that you quote him as saying Islam is a more "pervasive" religion than Christianity, and then you go and ask why it is in fact that Islam is more "persuasive". Different words.Different meanings.

Excelsior

Fu<k! an idiot i am.
Lay it upon me for I deserve it.

Reactionary attitudes.
When will I stop them from getting the better of me!!!

adnans

To add a bit of spice to the topic...

The Mujahadeen fall nicely into this argumentative/informative topic as they have fought with their fellow Muslims in the Balkan war (mainly in Bosnia) and have supplied them with medical supplies and some weapons. After the war there is still a Mujahadeen community living in Bosnia who have decided to stay there to live and raise a family.

I can back this point fully cause not only have I seen it on telly but been there myslef.

you may resume the arguing please.

adnans

bugler

Well I dunno what we can fight over now.I'm sure we'll find something.As for mujahadeen in Bosnia, I wouldn't have begrudged muslims in the balkans any help at all.Considering that the Croatians were every bit as bad as Serbs in terms of ethnic cleansing and atrocities commited, shunning a solid alliance with muslims,a reaction befitting the descendants of the infamous Ustashi, who collaborated with the Nazi's.Why am I saying this? I'll be damned if I know.

Clintons Cat

Afganistan>there is a suspicion that the Russians helped pakistan fund,aid and arm the pashan led Taliban to overthrow The Iranian backed mujahadeen in retalliation for the toppling of the Djick led former Communist Government of Afganistan.
the Rusians under the new leadership of Putin are currently exploring avenues of restoring lost military prestige vis a vie some kind of interventionist action on behalf of the djicks,which is veiwed with hostility by both the mujahadeen and the taleban.
Talk about a complicated situation.

oh and by the way i wish to expound the cultural significance to Budism of the destroyed buddahs.
The Taleban May have destroyed the idols but in their actions have failed to understand that all they have done is returned rock to rock,it is they who have idolised the statues by considering them idols and not a feature of nature.Thus the condemmers have become the condemed.
This is elementary Budism which is why you wont hear many Budhists complaining,it still sucks for the rest of us materialists though.

but i kind of find it funny in a ironic way.
Good on you Budhah

Excelsior

You guys let me off for my stupidity pretty lightly. That was real nice.
I apologise for the stupidity again.


Resume petty arguing.
I'll join in later.

Belisarius

Lads I must admit I hadn been keeping up with this thread , I checked in after the news and I saw Excelsiors post...You misquote me sir , I said Pervasive , not persuasive ...slight difference

Excelsior

and profusely i apologise.
incredible idiocy on my behalf.
the demons of stupidity, after a long excorcism have almost all bee stricken from my soul.