Irish Rail getting worse

is_that_so

Is it my imagination or has the rail service in the Dublin area actually got worse since they stopped their weekend works? I regularly use the Northern Commuter Line( Dublin-Dundalk). I do believe in public transport having lived in a number of European cities where transport is really integrated. Dublin's and Irealnd's transport system by comparison is downright embarrassing. I would be a more committed commuter if I could do the following

1. Find a train that regularly runs on time.
2. Find a suburban train that stops at Clontarf Road ( rail station before Connolly on north side of city) - baffling considering that the business park has 5,000 workers.

The following may explain my reluctance to embrace public transport completely (posted this elsewhere but relevant here as well )

Total time in car (to and from work) c. 1 hour 50 minutes
Total time on trains today (to and from work) 4 hours !!
Total time on trains yesterday (to and from work) 4.5 hours !!

Is this a bit of overreacting I wonder ?

BrianD

I got the train to and from Cork today. Purchased ticket from machine, train left on time, was clean, smoke free and arrived on time. Same on the way back. Couldn't fault it!

I think you are over reacting. Every DART stops at Clontarf Rd., you have to change from another line to reach it. I think it's fair to say that in many cities, travelling by rail may take longer than using your car.

Bass.exe

The biggest problem with the train services is that when something DOES go wrong, they have no idea what to do next, so they keep everyone waiting for several hours. They need contingency plans.... got to keep the trains moving.

is_that_so

fair point but commuter trains don't stop despite the fact that the Business Park contributed £150K to the construction costs of the station. The reason given is that it is not a "designated" city centre station. Anyway will be in car tomorrow.

eth0_

I work in the IFSC and i'm really ****ing sick of the trains. I heard they were changing the timetables and I was really looking forward to it, thinking oh! they'll put some express trains to Drogheda and Dundalk on at peak times!

OF COURSE NOT! They've put an EXTRA stop on the 6.45pm express to Dundalk!

ARE THESE PEOPLE COMPLETE MORONS? The BULK of passengers on that line get on at Drogheda and Dundalk! They would greatly reduce crushing on the trains if they put a couple of express trains on when people are commuting to and from work, not at 7pm in the evening!

I'm seriously considering getting the bus to work! :-(

shoegirl

BrianD wrote:

I got the train to and from Cork today. Purchased ticket from machine, train left on time, was clean, smoke free and arrived on time. Same on the way back. Couldn't fault it!

I think you are over reacting. Every DART stops at Clontarf Rd., you have to change from another line to reach it. I think it's fair to say that in many cities, travelling by rail may take longer than using your car.

Lucky you! I've got the Cork-Dublin train about 12 return trips over the last 2 years and the train was on time about 3 times out of 24 trips. At least 1 trip was more than 30 minutes late, about 3 were 20-30 minutes late and most of the rest were 10-15 minutes late. In fact I was quite surprised on the few occasions when it was in fact on time. Most irritating was that many of the lates should have in fact been on time except for the inexplicable practice of the train drawing to a halt about 10 minutes outside Heuston for up to 20 minutes with no explanation EVER given to passengers.

I also used to Cork-Cobh line for a while and it was ALWAYS, without exception late at certain times - for example the 8:25 leaving Cork - never seen this train on time, and probably got it a couple of hundred times. On the other hand the train that left Cobh around 17:30 was mostly on time. Thats not to mention unexplained cancellations, power cuts, breakdowns, even a wildcat strike.

At least the LUAS now means there is a proper service out of Heuston, instead of the ridiculous scenario where the last bus left 10 minutes before the last train even arrived at the station. What a truly crap service. You must be living in a different country to me. Oh and I forgot to mention that the fare that was 44 euro for a montly return when I moved to Cork is now about 60 euro - with no improvement in service whatsoever.

So I bought myself a little Fiesta, and do the same total trip in about the same time or less if I could the bus transfers on the other side. Even the petrol costs about 50% of the total train/bus trip and you don't have some 15 year old clown spill his Budweiser over you while he blasts his ghettoblaster.

As for the DART stopping at Clontarf - yes true, but very few of the other commuter trains coming from Drogheda/Dundalk etc stop at Clontarf. No wonder you cannot get a parking space in that industrial estate for love nor money!

BrianD

So I bought myself a little Fiesta, and do the same total trip in about the same time or less if I could the bus transfers on the other side.

I find it hard to believe that you can do Dublin-Cork legally in less than the advertised time of the train. Certainly not from the Heuston Station car park to Kent Station!

John R

Here we have the whole problem in two posts, one demanding that there are less stops for the drogheda line trains and one demanding more stops, either way the service provided will not fit exactly what everyone demands it is just not realistic.

is_that_so

John R wrote:

Here we have the whole problem in two posts, one demanding that there are less stops for the drogheda line trains and one demanding more stops, either way the service provided will not fit exactly what everyone demands it is just not realistic.

Not sure that this is the case . I agree with eth0_ but I think he means avoiding all the other stations up the line to Drogheda/Dundalk.
Clontarf Road is virtually city centre( 2 mins from Connolly)

maxheadroom

is_that_so wrote:

Not sure that this is the case . I agree with eth0_ but I think he means avoiding all the other stations up the line to Drogheda/Dundalk.
Clontarf Road is virtually city centre( 2 mins from Connolly)

So why not go to Connoly and change to a DART? If its because of punctuality and frequency, then start lobbying your local TDs to support the dublin rail plan / interconnector proposal.

dmeehan

John R wrote:

Here we have the whole problem in two posts, one demanding that there are less stops for the drogheda line trains and one demanding more stops, either way the service provided will not fit exactly what everyone demands it is just not realistic.

why not have the express leaving first, only stopping at drogheda & dundalk and a "non-express" leaving 5/10mins after, stopping at every station outside the city

whay can they not do this

eth0_

John R wrote:

Here we have the whole problem in two posts, one demanding that there are less stops for the drogheda line trains and one demanding more stops, either way the service provided will not fit exactly what everyone demands it is just not realistic.

That's not what i'm demanding. I'm suggesting an extra one or two trains between 5-6pm going from Dublin and stopping only at Drogheda and Dundalk, AS WELL AS the existing trains. As I said, the bulk of users are getting on and off at Dundalk and Drogheda, so it would take a lot of stress out of that journey for all concerned!

Genghis

I have been commuting from the Midlands to Heuston for near on two years now, and I have to say that the service is normally excellent. I would say that I have missed trains by being 1 minute late than I have had trains delayed on me. In the morning time I can think of may 3 or 4 occassions where the train left late. I get a seat 95% or more of the time, and generally speaking the train is the most comfortable way to travel.

If I wanted improvements I would like more trains, specially in the schedule gaps (during afternoon and evening) and I would prefer a younger average age of stock (i.e. replace some of the older with some of the new).

enterprise

eth0_ wrote:

That's not what i'm demanding. I'm suggesting an extra one or two trains between 5-6pm going from Dublin and stopping only at Drogheda and Dundalk, AS WELL AS the existing trains. As I said, the bulk of users are getting on and off at Dundalk and Drogheda, so it would take a lot of stress out of that journey for all concerned!

Have you ever considered where the extra rolling stock & train crew resources for these express services that you talk about is going to come from? Every available piece of rolling stock for the Dublin Commuter Business is in use during the peak period. They are actually squeezing more out of the existing rolling stock this year by providing an additional 17.10 Connolly - Balbriggan, which will take some pressure off the 17.13 Pearse - Dundalk the busiest train on the Commuter System.

And if you want to go to Clontarf Road from the Northern Line change trains at either Malahide, Howth Jct or worst case Connolly for DART services.

daymobrew

eth0_ wrote:

That's not what i'm demanding. I'm suggesting an extra one or two trains between 5-6pm going from Dublin and stopping only at Drogheda and Dundalk, AS WELL AS the existing trains. As I said, the bulk of users are getting on and off at Dundalk and Drogheda, so it would take a lot of stress out of that journey for all concerned!

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/general_news.asp?action=view&news_id=79 says:
A new service will operate at 17.10hrs from Connolly to Balbriggan, serving Skerries and Balbriggan. (bold used as on website).
Will this help?

On the Maynooth line I'd love an extra train between 8-9am. Maybe the extra one you are demanding could come from the morning service from Maynooth.
Current ones are jammed, some are (only) 6 carriages which probably doesn't help.
Our new timetable has most trains running about 3 mins earlier. I wonder how mad the queues will be on Monday morning for those not expecting this - a bunch of people looking at an approaching train, looking at their watch and wondering WTF!?!

enterprise

shoegirl wrote:

Lucky you! I've got the Cork-Dublin train about 12 return trips over the last 2 years and the train was on time about 3 times out of 24 trips. At least 1 trip was more than 30 minutes late, about 3 were 20-30 minutes late and most of the rest were 10-15 minutes late. In fact I was quite surprised on the few occasions when it was in fact on time. Most irritating was that many of the lates should have in fact been on time except for the inexplicable practice of the train drawing to a halt about 10 minutes outside Heuston for up to 20 minutes with no explanation EVER given to passengers.

I also used to Cork-Cobh line for a while and it was ALWAYS, without exception late at certain times - for example the 8:25 leaving Cork - never seen this train on time, and probably got it a couple of hundred times. On the other hand the train that left Cobh around 17:30 was mostly on time. Thats not to mention unexplained cancellations, power cuts, breakdowns, even a wildcat strike.

At least the LUAS now means there is a proper service out of Heuston, instead of the ridiculous scenario where the last bus left 10 minutes before the last train even arrived at the station. What a truly crap service. You must be living in a different country to me. Oh and I forgot to mention that the fare that was 44 euro for a montly return when I moved to Cork is now about 60 euro - with no improvement in service whatsoever.

So I bought myself a little Fiesta, and do the same total trip in about the same time or less if I could the bus transfers on the other side. Even the petrol costs about 50% of the total train/bus trip and you don't have some 15 year old clown spill his Budweiser over you while he blasts his ghettoblaster.

As for the DART stopping at Clontarf - yes true, but very few of the other commuter trains coming from Drogheda/Dundalk etc stop at Clontarf. No wonder you cannot get a parking space in that industrial estate for love nor money!

Being a regular train traveller, I find the service to be reliable most of the time. Two examples recently:

Friday 3rd Dec 2004:

1520 Heuston - Cork, 5 mins late into Mallow, the train would more than likely been on time into Cork.

Change at Mallow onto the 1710 Cork - Tralee.

Arrive 3 minutes early into Killarney.

Sunday 5th Dec 2004:

1625 Killarney - Heuston.

Left on time, 12 minutes early into Heuston - I was home 20 minutes earlier because of that.

All trains I travelled on were clean, warm and the staff helpful. Special mention should be made of the ticket checker who did he best to ensure as many people as possible got seats on a very full 1520 ex Heuston.


Cork - Cobh.

Before I moved back to Dublin to attend College I worked in a logistics company in Little Island for two years. This entailed daily commuting by train between Cork & Littleisland on the Cork - Cobh Commuter service out on the 0825 Cork - Cobh returning on the 1800 Cobh - Cork. 99 times out of 100 that 0825 would leave on time.

Generally the service ran to time, but there was some problems, say if one engine of the Arrow was failed the time would lose time and then run late. A big problem on the Cork - Cobh line is flooding near Glounthane so therefore one really heavy downpour and the service would be suspended.

enterprise

daymobrew wrote:

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/general_news.asp?action=view&news_id=79 says:
A new service will operate at 17.10hrs from Connolly to Balbriggan, serving Skerries and Balbriggan. (bold used as on website).
Will this help?

I believe it will help as I have travelled on the 1713 ex Pearse so I know how full it is - a lot of people get out at Skerries & Balbriggan. Therefore if some people will be able to avail of this 1710, which will help reduce loadings on the 1713 ex Pearse (for a while anyhow!).

eth0_

daymobrew wrote:

On the Maynooth line I'd love an extra train between 8-9am. Maybe the extra one you are demanding could come from the morning service from Maynooth.

Why are you getting so catty at ME? I'm not suggesting ANY trains be taken OFF any services! I used to live in Castleknock so I know exactly what the Maynooth line is like, it's just as bad as the Dundalk line.

I thought there were still more consignments of trains to be delivered in the next year anyway?
That Balbriggan train will help a bit, I have to say.

enterprise

eth0_ wrote:

Why are you getting so catty at ME? I'm not suggesting ANY trains be taken OFF any services! I used to live in Castleknock so I know exactly what the Maynooth line is like, it's just as bad as the Dundalk line.

I thought there were still more consignments of trains to be delivered in the next year anyway?
That Balbriggan train will help a bit, I have to say.

There are 36 * diesel multiple units carriages on order - these will be like the existing 2900 class units, but will be upgraded to be suitable for longer journeys (e.g. more seats and tables) and will be deployed on the Dublin - Longford - Sligo services.

Also I should point out that there is extra late evening services from Dublin. The current 1815 Rosslare - Connolly will be deferred to 1855 and will be extended through to Drogheda. This will depart Pearse at 2157. A new late evening service will operate Mon-Sat departing Connolly at 2320 serving the usual stations to Drogheda.

eth0_

Again, nice that they're putting extra services on, but not where they're REALLY needed, which is at commuting times :-/

Trojan

They are needed on the long distant (weekend) services too

enterprise

eth0_ wrote:

Again, nice that they're putting extra services on, but not where they're REALLY needed, which is at commuting times :-/

Well they dont have any extra rolling stock to put on a peak times. Trains don't grow on trees!

Actually Drogheda town council made submissions to IE for a later service to Drogheda so there must be some demand there!

Victor

enterprise wrote:

Actually Drogheda town council made submissions to IE for a later service to Drogheda so there must be some demand there!

There is now a 23:20 service ex-Connolly.

daymobrew

eth0_ wrote:

Why are you getting so catty at ME? I'm not suggesting ANY trains be taken OFF any services! I used to live in Castleknock so I know exactly what the Maynooth line is like, it's just as bad as the Dundalk line.

I thought there were still more consignments of trains to be delivered in the next year anyway?
That Balbriggan train will help a bit, I have to say.

eth0_: Sorry I wasn't clearer with my response. I used the word 'demanded' because you had used it. I thought it was an unusual word to use here because one can demand all they like and Irish Rail won't (necessarily) change because of it. Many, many times I've asked that the content of website comment forms be sent to the submitter but I've never gotten a response, never mind action.

I was actually trying to make a joke about how your 'demand' AND my wish could be achieved - use the rolling stock as a morning train for me (and a few hundred others) and as an evening train for you. Like you I wasn't asking that any current trains be diverted - I was wishing for an extra train to magically appear.

Aside: There was a thread about two weeks ago where the person was travelling into Dublin city from Leixlip. This person, who MUST have gotten a seat, now drives because the train is so packed. If one has a seat one is (generally) not affected by the number of people on the train. I've pretty much never gotten a seat, either direction. I'm not one of those people who makes the mad dash with elbows spread when the doors open at Pearse.

is_that_so

maxheadroom wrote:

So why not go to Connoly and change to a DART? If its because of punctuality and frequency, then start lobbying your local TDs to support the dublin rail plan / interconnector proposal.

Yes this is what I do and it can add up to 45 minutes to my journey home as I am at the mercy of both lines. If there is a problem on the northside I get delayed and miss my train north. If on arrival I find a delay on the southside yet again I am delayed. I actually prefer and believe in public transport but when my journey time is doubled why would I be bothered to use it ?

And as for lobbying, Irish Rail's stock answer every time the issue is raised by Business park companies, including my own is that Clontarf Road is "not a designated city centre station". All it would take would be one or two trains a day each way and we'd all be happy bunnies At the same time for some obscure reason a suburban train stops at Raheny( stop on Northbound DART) on a Friday afternoon( I have been on that virtually empty train ) so if it suited Irish Rail it could be done.

is_that_so

enterprise wrote:

And if you want to go to Clontarf Road from the Northern Line change trains at either Malahide, Howth Jct or worst case Connolly for DART services.

Enterprise I suggest u try it for a month or two. I have been doing it for 4 years on and off. :eek: Part of the frustration is having to switch to another train that will follow later on the SAME line. It's not as if you're going in a different direction. But I get to read a lot.

Victor

is_that_so wrote:

At the same time for some obscure reason a suburban train stops at Raheny( stop on Northbound DART) on a Friday afternoon( I have been on that virtually empty train ) so if it suited Irish Rail it could be done.

It may be behind a freight or Friday only train.

is_that_so

Victor wrote:

It may be behind a freight or Friday only train.

Nope it was on timetable as an actual stop , but surprisingly on new timetable it seems to have gone. hmmmm

Zaph

I sometimes wonder if the powers that be in Irish Rail have ever actually travelled on a train. I've recently moved to Clonsilla and been using the train in from Coolmine station for the last couple of months. I officially start work at 8.30, but as the 7.55 train is too packed for my liking I've been getting the 7.30 one instead, which is just uncomfortably full. This means I'm in work earlier than I need to be but I can live with that. They have now changed the 7.30 train to 7.20, which will have me in work even earlier and means that I'll have to be out of the house 10 minutes earlier, which is a total pain at that hour of the morning. However, I reckon a lot of people will just switch to the later train, which means that it will be even more crowded than it is now. Any reasonable person would have assumed that an extra train would have been slotted in to the now widened gap between trains, but we're not dealing with a reasonable company here.

The situation in the evenings is even worse. The 4.45 train to Maynooth has its first stop in Coolmine and is a busy train with a lot of people getting off at Coolmine. They have brought the time of this train forward to 4.30, which is probably that little bit too early for most people in the IFSC (judging by the number of people I see running for the train at 4.45). The next train is at 5.15, and it's full enough as it is without adding to it all the people who would normally get the 4.45 but can't leave work early enough for the new 4.30 train. There is now a gap of 45 minutes between trains on what is clearly a very busy commuter route. The situation is going to get worse when all the apartments currently being built in Ashtown are occupied.

As an additional rant, the trains themselves are just not designed for standing commuters. A toilet cubicle in every carriage - WTF is that all about? You could fit another 15 people per carriage into the space taken up by it. And a few more hand holds wouldn't go astray for thoseof us who never get a seat. I've often been left stranded in the middle of a crowd of people with nothing to hold on to and spending my whole journey trying to keep my balance. A fe less delays on the service, particularly in the evening,would be appreciated. Last week the train home only arrived on time once!

Before I moved I used to use the Dart, and while I complained frequently about it, it was a joy to use in comparison to the western commuter line.

is_that_so

enterprise wrote:

Well they dont have any extra rolling stock to put on a peak times. Trains don't grow on trees!

Actually Drogheda town council made submissions to IE for a later service to Drogheda so there must be some demand there!

Absolutely . Feel like a 15 year old having to get a train at 22.15

aliveandkicking

Lads some of you dont know what you are talking about. Irish Rail are not the evil company that deprive Dublin's commuters from extra trains and deliberately pile them onto packed trains.

They would love to put loads of extra trains on every route but they just can't - physically can't. There is no room at Connolly station during peak hours for more trains. If they put an extra train on one line it would mean taking one off another line.

That is what the interconnector/ Dublin rail plan is all about - relieving the congestion at Connolly enabling the Dart to run to Drogheda, the airport, Maynooth, Kildare and Greystones at high frequencies.