Ryanair - and the lessons for Irish Rail...

Zaph0d

cdebru wrote:

the luas does not really go into housing estates that is were the problems are

a lot of heavy usage qbcs start or go through some dodgy
areas
27 darndale
77 jobstown killinarden
40 finglas west etc no disrespect to the many fine people who live there but they have more than their fare share of scumbags

It stops at Rialto and Fatima in a disused canal alignment. I thought that the equipment at these stops would be wiped out but it doesn't seem to have happened.

also the 760 metres between stops in a housing estate just would not work

Why? Average distance between stops on Line A is 730m and 760m on Line B. Nobody would suggest that there should be more Luas stops. An interval of 760m means that you can't be more than 380m from the nearest stop or 5 minutes walk. this is the length of the mall in the Liffey Valley Centre. Anyone can walk this. Or maybe run it if you're wearing a tracksuit.

cdebru

Zaph0d wrote:

It stops at Rialto and Fatima in a disused canal alignment. I thought that the equipment at these stops would be wiped out but it doesn't seem to have happened..

yet

Iam not that familiar with the area you mentioned but i know about some of the areas i mentioned first hand and trust me nothing lasts they put up new bus shelters and they rip them down drive robbed cars into them
they get new buses they rip the seats out kick out the windows try setting fire to the seats its just some people in these areas but they are there
throwing stones firing pellet guns

Zaph0d wrote:

Why? Average distance between stops on Line A is 730m and 760m on Line B. Nobody would suggest that there should be more Luas stops. An interval of 760m means that you can't be more than 380m from the nearest stop or 5 minutes walk. this is the length of the mall in the Liffey Valley Centre. Anyone can walk this. Or maybe run it if you're wearing a tracksuit.

dont get me wrong i agree with you about spacing out bus stops
its just when you actually try to do it there is uproar
TDs councillors etc
and they end up tormenting the driver to be let on or off where the old stop was

Calina

My experience is that Irish people are just as compliant as any other nationality. Irish cars drive very slowly compared to Germany, for example, where sections of the Autobahns have no speed limits. We are not a nation of scheizers; but the ridiculous ticket gates treat us as though we are.

Metrobest,

It's one thing to do 130mph on an autobahn which doesn't have a speed restriction on it. It's an entirely different kettle of fish to do 130mph on a motorway that has a 70mph limit on it. One is compliant, the other is not. And I'll bet the vast majority of drivers will have complaints about constant redlight breaking, roundabout transgressions. Driving around Dublin is hell.

Fact: people in this country - a significant number of them - attempt to evade paying a valid fare. Response of the company is to check tickets on entry.

Fact: a lack of capacity on trains out of Heuston Station at peak time means people queue to access the train they want.

Remove the gate check won't change overcrowding on the trains.

Increase capacity on the network at peak times will reduce overcrowding on the trains and reduce queuing. I know which solution I'd prefer.

antoinolachtnai

cdebru wrote:

the problem is that you are simply guessing at the time saved

the time taken at the stops without ticket machines dublin bus already has a large proportion of people using prepaid tickets especially at peak times

Well, what do you think the saving would be? I am only reckoning on a saving of 3 second per passenger. This sounds perfectly reasonable.

Most of the prepaid tickets have to be validated using only one validator, and this is quite slow. Allowing customers to walk on without validating tickets (other than smartcards) would make things faster.

If you wanted to deal with the non-centre-city stops, it's easy. Just introduce a EUR 2.50 flat cash fare, with the ticket valid anywhere on the network for 90 minutes.

another way far less high tech is bring back conductors then it applies at all stops not just the ones lucky enough to have a ticket machine
remove the ticket check from the door give the conductor a small hand held ticket validator

You would have to give all the conductors a hand-held ticket machine. This would certainly not be a low-tech solution. You would need to put in place arrangments for managing, charging, maintaining and replacing all the extra ticket machines.

i know it is not super high tech but it works
it could be introduced on QBC's even if it was just for the peak periods it should be tried

It just wouldn't be economical, would it? You'd be increasing the salary burden considerably. The time saving would never make up for the cost. You'd have to increase either the fare or the subsidy. If you were going to do that, surely you would be as well putting extra buses on the road with the cash?

antoinolachtnai

Calina wrote:

Metrobest,

Remove the gate check won't change overcrowding on the trains.

Increase capacity on the network at peak times will reduce overcrowding on the trains and reduce queuing. I know which solution I'd prefer.

Think 'both ... and' not 'either ... or'.

Calina

Think 'both ... and' not 'either ... or'.

You're missing the point.

People aren't complaining about the gate check per se. Most people aren't even complaining about the fares. They are complaining about the fact that it leads to queues.

But the root problem is not the fact that there is a gate check. The root problem is that people don't trust that there will be a seat on the train for them because there isn't enough capacity. That is why they queue. They will still arrive up to 45 minutes early to catch a train. Remove the need for that and after that, it doesn't really matter where you place the ticket check, be it at the gate or in the train or both. The ticket check is necessary for a different reason, which is slightly further beyond the control of the transport company but which leads to higher fares for the rest of us.

antoinolachtnai

Well, if you don't have enough capacity, you just don't have enough capacity and no amount of shuffling will make it much better.

But do you not think using different ticket prices to displace peak users onto later trains or onto other modes would be a sensible move in the short-term? It's not as if any large amount of extra capacity is going to come on-stream for at least four years.

Metrobest

Calina wrote:

Metrobest,

Fact: people in this country - a significant number of them - attempt to evade paying a valid fare. Response of the company is to check tickets on entry. Fact: a lack of capacity on trains out of Heuston Station at peak time means people queue to access the train they want.

Remove the gate check won't change overcrowding on the trains. .

Irish people are very compliant; nanny state tells us what to do. A case in point is the smoke ban, which was proposed in Holland and people basically said they wouldn't obey it and the Dutch government backed down. In Ireland it sailed in and people obeyed, snitching on their local pub. The LUAS ticketing system has proven we are not a nation of fare-evaders; anyway, if there is proper on-board checking of tickets people are afraid to not pay.

It's a carrot and stick approach. Carrot is that you don't place unneccessary burden on passengers, forcing them to queue to access a train platform (no reason why two trains' passengers can't wait on the one platform).

Stick is that any passenger who abuses the system is caught and fined. CIE can't even get that right: prosecuting passengers in cases it can't win, wasting freight-loads of taxpayers' dosh.