Notice period - is it actually enforceable?

miamee

I am currently job hunting. My contract says I need to give 3 months notice when leaving. Assuming I find a new job and hand in my notice, is there anything a company can do to enforce working 3 months over 1 months notice? I'm permanent, paid monthly, working there 2 and a half years. There is every possibility I could give one month and say nothing, they are so disorganised it may fly under the radar anyway but I just want to know what the likely outcome would be if not.

For context I feel like the end may be nigh as far as what I am working on goes but I'm not one hundred percent sure on that. If I am right, they won't care about notice periods but if I am wrong, the CEO may take it personally when I hand in notice and try to enforce 3 months - if he remembers it was in the contract.

I'm not in any kind of position that warrants 3 months notice and I am kicking myself that I didn't flag it at the time.

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

El Gato De Negocios

Id assume it is enforceable if your employer pushes it. At the end of the day, an employment contract is the same as any other contract and is legally binding unless both parties agree to waive it.

Dial Hard

The answer really is, it depends. I've seen (and had my own) three-month notice periods enforced, I've also seen plenty of people just give a month's notice with no issues whatsoever. It kind of all comes down to a) how badly your current employer needs you to serve your notice period b) how badly you need a reference from them/how small the industry is and if that will come back to bite you in the ass if you only give them a month and c) how likely they are to go the legal route to enforce it if you refuse to abide by your contract. In my experience, that only happens with really, really senior people (and generally with no-compete clauses rather than notice periods), but again, you need to be sure of your position in relation to B even if you reckon they won't go legal.

o1s1n

I've never given more than 1 months notice, no matter what my contract says.

I did once have a manager say 'but your contract says 6 months notice' and I gave him a raised eyebrow and again said 'I am giving you my 1 months notice'. That was that, 1 months notice served and I left.

Unless it's a tiny industry where everyone knows everyone you'll more than likely be forgotten the moment you walk out the door.

Tomw86

I would assume on this if you put a date in a months time down as your finishing date in your letter and not mention anything that is your best bet.

I have a 2 month notice period and will be hoping to get it down to 1 month when I leave.

Out of interest, how can an employer enforce a notice period?

Dublin Calling

The legal requirement from employee to employer is 1 week. As you signed a contract with a longer limit in theory should be honored, but the reality is your employer would have to sue you to get the contact enforced.

KaneToad

Unless you are a senior critical role in an organisation, I wouldn't be worrying about notice period.

Your former employer would have to take a civil action against you. They likely won't because of:

Time

Cost

Reputation

Risk of losing (entirely possible that a judge wouldn't agree that such a non critical role should be held to an onerous notice period. Particularly if said notice period also stymied you moving to another role)

miamee

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it. There is minimal chance of them taking any legal action against me due to the likely cost involved and reputational damage. As it stands I could probably make an argument for constructive dismissal but I may want a reference from them in the future so I have no intentions of falling out with anyone if possible.

csirl

When you're resigning, put in your notice letter the date you intend to finish up and see what happens Say nothing and dont draw attention to the issue and chances you'll be fine.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123911183#Comment_123911183

Right, because have a previous employer or former work collegue describe your behaviour as untrustworth is not all OK.

It can take decades to build a reputation, but minutes to loose it…..

mrslancaster

If the shoe was on the other foot and an organisation wanted to dispense with your services they’d let you go when it suited them irrespective of the three month notice period. They might need to buy that out but the business would carry on. What would they do if an employee was in an accident? No notice received in that situation but they’d manage fine. I’ve never heard of anyone being sued for giving one months notice 🙄

Edit: I know people who had unused annual leave when leaving a job. They gave one months notice, worked x days then took the unused leave to bring them up to their last day. Company managed. Not every company makes payment in lieu.

jacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058426777/notice-period-is-it-actually-enforceable

Would you have to hand in your notice to the CEO? Surely HR or "People" or whatever they are called.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123912756#Comment_123912756

It's not a large organisation, CEO is my immediate line manager so yes he would be the person to whom I resign. There is no HR or 'people' person or even office admin at this stage (there was when I started but after the office manager left they were not replaced)

circular flexing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123912756#Comment_123912756

Notice is generally handed into immediate manager.

burgerKev

I always thought notice was the pay period you got paid by e.g. weekly, fortnightly, monthly?

I would say most places would be flexible on both ends, your new job wants you so if you tell them you're meeting your old job in the middle and giving them a month and a half.

Also consider they might be apprehensive about a new hire who did a burner from their old job.

Trigger Happy

I have no advice for you OP but to share a story. I was once in a 3 month notice position. When I resigned HR insisted I see out the 3 months.

First I pushed them to show me where this was stated in the contract. They were so disorganised that they could not do this.

Secondly I let some of the seniors in head office know that I was leaving to go to a competitor.

Within a few hours of the latter HR were at my desk to say that I was going on gardening leave. I refused to read or sign the piece of paper they put in front of me as was under no obligation to do either. I started my new job a few weeks later and was getting paid by both old and new company for 2 months. In fairness to them they still gave me good references etc.

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123910738#Comment_123910738

The employer's remedy would be to sue the departing employee for any damages their breach of contract caused their employer. Those damages would have to be actual and quantifiable to have any real chance of success, though. For instance, if the employer had to bring in a short-term temp at a much higher rate of pay to cover that employee's role for the duration of the agreed notice period, they might be successful claiming damages amounting to the difference between the temp's pay and the employee's normal pay for that time period. If the employer claimed that the employee's absence cost the business one gazillion euro in hypothetical potential sales that never happened because said employee wasn't working, that's much less likely to fly in court.

In most cases it's unlikely that actual damages from an employee leaving before the end of their notice period would amount to anything that would actually be worth pursuing in court, so employers usually wouldn't bother.

Peregrinus

Bottom line is that they can't really force you to work, but they can put you on gardening leave for the duration of your contractual notice period and, if they want to, they can effectively prevent you from taking up another job during that period by notifying your new employer that you're still bound by your contract with them. Your new employer is very unlikely to take you on in these circumstances.

Whether they would do this is another matter. But they could.

AugustRain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927071#Comment_123927071

This recent squabble between RTÉ and Newstalk is a good example.
The presenter Ciaran Cuddihy left Newstalk with short notice to go to work in RTÉ instead.
He was rostered to appear on The Late Late Show that Friday evening on RTÉ but Newstalk contacted RTÉ and pointed out that he was still contracted to them and RTÉ had to drop him from the line up of guests.

Shelflife

Its a personal bugbear of mine that people will fight tooth and nail to ensure that if the company want to part ways with an employee they will get paid the full contracted wages in this case 3 months.

But if they want to leave they are happy to renege on their contractual agreement.

You made a deal, you should honour the deal.

miamee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123933454#Comment_123933454

That's a fair point. Unfortunately they have reneged on our contract agreement by not paying me on the contractually agreed date several times which I find unacceptable and a breach of contract. So if I need to give one month's notice instead of three, I'm not going to feel too bad about it.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123927071#Comment_123927071

Yes in most cases it is not a good idea to try and force someone to work for you. And certainly in Private Banking where I worked the biggest concern was client advisors taking clients with them when the left, so it was normal to pay 6 or 12 months gardening leave and have them show up every now and then office.

I am aware of one occassion where there was very bad blood between the departing employee and business/owner and that went a lot further… the owner took a case to court including the employee's futhre empoyer in it. And the future employer walked away when they heard what was going on, but not before they had to pay for lawyer and show up in court to get themselves removed from it.

Ted222

Unless your role is mission critical, there is absolutely no possibility that you would be pursued for failing to observe the notice period (which in this case is a ridiculously long period).

There is plenty of case history to support the contention that a person’s freedom to work cannot be unreasonably restricted.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123933454#Comment_123933454

That would be fine if it was reasonably possible to find a new job where the employer was willing to wait three months to allow you work your notice.

It’s not reasonable that employers who expect you to be immediately available to work at the beginning are the same ones who may ultimately insist on you honouring a three month notice period at the point of termination.

miamee

Hmmm my CEO who lives and works on the opposite side of the country to me has suggested coming to meet me in person next week…this has never happened before. I may not need a notice period at all ☠️

Dublin Calling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123949322#Comment_123949322

The best of both worlds. Redundancy payment and walking into a new job.

Round tower

Not the same, the company i work for was bought in 022, it's run by a company in Dublin, we are on the minimum wage.

Before they took over when the minimum wage increased those on salary allso increased accordingly, that stopped when they took over.

We get the minimum wage increase each Jan. but any overtime we do in 023, 024 and this year is paid at 1.5 times the minimum wage rate of 022.

We were never consulted and we do not have a union.

Is it legal or not.

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058426777/notice-period-is-it-actually-enforceable

Yes enforceable if the full contract is well written, but unless you are a super talented corporate high flyer in a viscous industry your employer is lightly to not bother beyond the HR manager pointing out the issue to you.

Was in a similar position myself previously and that's how it worked out, my actual manager was more interested in finding an internal replacement.

Peregrinus

We get the minimum wage increase each Jan. but any overtime we do in 023, 024 and this year is paid at 1.5 times the minimum wage rate of 022 . . .

Is it legal or not.

It is legal

We were never consulted and we do not have a union.

You are this close to working out what you need to do.

skallywag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123910731#Comment_123910731

That may catch up with you some day.

When I am hiring I am going to ask to request to speak to a referee. If I am subsequently told that you let someone down by not working out your notice, then I am going to take a very dim view of it, and you will need to then convince me why this was the case.

If you have an issue with the notice period in your contract, then you need to bring this up while negotiating your contract, etc.

OP, in general once am employee has resigned then the organization will want them out ASAP. They will only want to you to work out the notice period if they are really terribly stuck to find someone else to fill that role during that time. In fact, it is also very common for someone to be paid fully for their notice period, e.g. say 3 months, and then simply asked to leave immediately.

skallywag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123910738#Comment_123910738

It is extremely unlikely that a employer will persue it legally.

The main loss you will face is that you will not be getting a worthwhile reference from said employer. If you do not need that then you have very little to lose.