Using Unifi Cloud Gateway Fiber (or similar) in Dublin - options?

R75MM

Hi All,

I'm currently living in Dublin 12. My home is only now "passing" for fiber broadband with both "OpenEir" and "Virgin Media" wholesale options now available. I currently use Virgin Media cable 500mb (not fibre).

Internally I have a number of devices running native 2.5G ethernet as I would do a lot of large transfers of video files etc. Now that fibre is avaiable and my broadband contract will be up in a few weeks I'm looking at options.

I want to make the most of of either a 1gb or 2gb internet connection & I suspect whatever provider I go with will just give a modem/router with 1GB ports "out of the box"; so I'm just exploring options.

I'm fairly technical but have not messed with fibre at all. So, my question is - should I go and buy the Unifi UCG-Fiber (30W) and hopfully plug the new fibre directly into that? Would that work regardless of which retail provider and wholesale network I'm on?

Again, I have a few weeks' before I press the big button so just looking for advise and looking through other forums has me a bit confused! (Not helped by the really poor "search" on Boards.ie)

Home setup:

Virgin Media cable modem in normal (not bridged) mode.

Home phone with Virgin Media

Unifi WiFi7 APs running off 2.5G LAN

2 x servers and one big PC all with 2.5G LAN NICs

2.5G LAN switch holding my life together

Various wifi 7 client devices; smart home devices, etc., etc..

1 CCTV DVR with 1gb port

1 Sky TV PUC (their streaming box) on 1gb LAN - toally seperate contract

1 Internet radio on a 1gb port or Wifi

I do want to maintain my home phone but do not need to keep it with the same provider as the fiber per-se.

Anything I need to look out for before I order?

Thanks,

-R7

dam099

Virgin Media don’t install an ONT if you use their wholesale network and them as the retail ISP (ONT is built into their router). It’s been reported here that it’s possible to get a UCG working with a SFP+ fibre unit but it seems a bit hacky.

If using Virgin wholesale with another retailer you will get an ONT so easier to set up.

All Openeir installations have an ONT so you can connect a UCG Fiber direct to them.

Phone is possible but you’ll usually need to use the retail ISP router alongside your own.

R75MM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709165#Comment_123709165

Good afternoon,

Thanks for the response. So VM retail on the VM wholesale network is to be avoided is what I'm reading there; however any other option/combination should be good. I'm fairly sure I may go with Vodafone fibre on either of the wholesale networks so in that instance I should be golden.

When I do get either VM wholesale or OpenEir wholsale - do I just buy a short fibre patch and connect directly into the ONT or does it connect via some other media? I'm sorry that maybe a very dumb question. Additionally, if I need to use the ISP's modem for the phone service; how would that be physically cabled up to the ONT?

Sorry for the dumbass questions

-R7

NotShero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709177#Comment_123709177

The fibre goes into the ONT and then you use an Ethernet cable from the ONT to the router. The home phone connects to the provided router so If you want to keep it you’ll have to go through the provided router and put it into “bridge mode”, if the Vodafone router has it.

As you can use both PPPoE and IPoE/DHCP with eir, there are workarounds for them specifically for using the home phone without having to use the provided router in between the ONT and your own router.

As @dam099 has said Virgin through Virgin FTTP uses the integrated ONT in the Hub 5x instead of a separate unit on the wall, there is also CGNAT and DS-Lite to contend with. There is no “bridge/modem mode”. You can’t connect the fibre directly, you’d need a WAS-110 etc. which is an SFP ONT that can clone other ONTs.

You said you currently are connected to the Virgin router not in “bridge mode”, doing this is usually okay but you will have double NAT and that can cause issues with port forwarding. You can have this set up with Virgin through Virgin FTTP also if you haven’t noticed any issues with double NAT so far.

R75MM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709274#Comment_123709274

Hi @NotShero,

Again many thanks for the replies on this query.

If I was to use the ISP provided modem with double NAT would I not be presented with the exact problem I'm trying to avoid - i.e. the ISP's modem usually only provides 1GB LAN ports?

If I were to connect directly to the ONT via Ethernet onto the Unifi UCG-Fiber would that run at 10GB or do I need some adapter (SFP or similar)? I know, this is a very basic question!. At least the Unifi gives me the 2.5G LAN ports.

I could move the home phone to a seperate SIP provider if that was a better option so that I'm not limited to the ISP provided modem only for a dial tone!

Thanks again.

-R7

dam099

Vodafone (and possibly others) will let you pull an IP on 2 routers as well (both PPPoE) so you can also put a switch between the ONT and connect the 2 routers to it avoiding double NAT (use the Vodafone router for phone only and switch off the WiFi and use the ICG for internet). Vodafone don’t seem to support bridge mode.

dam099

One other consideration is at higher speeds the UniFi Routers seem to struggle with PPPoE (although that has improved in the last year). DHCP doesn’t suffer as badly.

NotShero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709304#Comment_123709304

The eir router has a 10Gb WAN port and 10Gb LAN port.

The Vodafone router only has one 10Gb Ethernet port. So they require you to buy the SFP module they sell to keep the 10Gb Ethernet port for LAN. You just connect the fibre directly to the module into the router but then it’s the same as Virgin through Virgin FTTP.

http://vodafonefaf.ie/products/sercomm-10g-ethernet-sfp-transceivers-silver

R75MM

Hi @dam099 ,

Thanks for both replies on the above. I think what I'm fundamentally trying to usderstand is:

1. If I connect the ONT with a switch inbetween the 2 devices as you suggested - what switch would I be looking for? some kind of 10G fiber switch? Sounds expensive?
2. I Perhaps I'm just not really grasping the Ethernet "media" bandwidth from the ONT to the switch and then from the swith to the two devices.

I get what you are saying with the PPoE, understood somewhat.

The above set-up sounds a bit complex just to keep a dial tone though if I'm being honest.

Thanks again.

-R7….learning slowly

NotShero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709333#Comment_123709333

I’d go with eir if I was in your situation. There’s 5Gb instead of 2Gb. You can connect directly to the ONT and you can connect their router to your router with an Ethernet cable and just connect the phone to it with the eir router in PPPoE mode.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123427652#Comment_123427652

dam099

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709333#Comment_123709333

I wasn’t thinking about the switch needing to support 10gbps, while it doesn’t need to be a fibre one even no name 10gb Ethernet switches probably run €100ish.

I would follow the approach @NotShero outlines above.

R75MM

Thanks all,

I think I'm rounding out on a solution now. Vodafone FTTH with either VM Wholesale or OpenEir; doesn't really matter.

Use a ethernet cable to connect from the ONT onto a brand new Unifi UCG-Fiber. The Ethernet from the ONT as far as I understand runs at 10GB without any need for any SFP etc. I hope this is correct!?

Put in vLAN, PPoE etc into the Unifi and then the rest is up to me internally to connect up using the 2.5G LAN ports on the Unifi.

Regarding 5GB internet @NotShero - I live alone and the max any of my devices will ever pull down is 2.5G so I'd hold off on 5G for now anyway. I do want to ensure I get full "line speed" of 2GB so that's why I'm obsessed with 2.5G ports!

As I'm a Vodafone mobile customer and a "new" broadband customer the deal looks good if I'm honest. Eir 5GB is overkill for me right now.

Regarding phone line - I'll go with a 3rd party SIP provider and just seperate that out. I have a Grandstream ATA 801 somewhere I think….

-R7

NotShero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123709370#Comment_123709370

Yes the ONT will be 10Gb, ethernet from ONT to your Unifi router.

PPPoE username - vodafone@vodafone.ie OR (Serial Number of Vodafone Router)@vfieftth.ie

PPPoE password - broadband

VLAN ID 10

You could still have the set up @dam099 has mentioned if Vodafone allows multiple IPs to one ONT through PPPoE -

ONT > Ethernet cable > 2.5Gb Ethernet Switch > One port to Unifi and another port to Vodafone router with home phone attached.

R75MM

Many thanks again. All is clear now.

-R7

R75MM

Hi all,

Sorry to reopen to this tread.

If I went with Sky Fibre on either OpenEir or Virgin Media wholesale, is the vlan and/or PPOE settings for my UCG to use?

Looks like Sky have a very competitive offer currently.

Thanks

-R7

NotShero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123737441#Comment_123737441

PPPoE Username - anything@skydsl

PPPoE Password - anything

VLAN ID 10

R75MM

Cheers. A DSL username on the Fibre network - go figure!!

R75MM

Howdy,

I got Sky full fibre installed today via Virgin Media wholesale (yay!). Unifi connected to the ONT directly perfectly and the physical link spped is looking perfect at 10Gb.

I'm not super impressed by the max speeds I'm getting and I'm wondering if anyone else has a similar setup to me? (everything is now wired over 2.5GB to the UCG [Cloud Fibre Gateway]).

Max download is: 920mb

Max Upload is good: 108mb

Anyone else getting over the GB on a 1GB Sky connection?

Thanks,

-R7

dam099

920Gb is about right with overhead on a 1Gbps connection

R75MM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123803695#Comment_123803695

Thanks,

I guess I was kind of hoping they would slightly "over-provision" the service to allow for any overhead so with my 2.5gb NICs I was expecting better!

Oh well.

tazzzZ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123803709#Comment_123803709

Did you check what speeds your Unifi device gets in the GUI?

I'm currently on VM 5Gb/500Mb (Using WAS110 to avoid CGNAT) and i regularly see over provisioning at that point. I do have all the IDS/IPS active so I understand I give up a lot of bandwidth to have that active.

R75MM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123809267#Comment_123809267

Thanks,

Yes the speeds the Unifi is getting are the same as what I'm getting at each end device (wired and WiFi) so that's all they appear to be giving me.

I'm going to try the Sky Hub only and see but others elsewhere seem to suggest 920mb or so is all I can expect.

Like @tazzzZ I would have expected better.

-R7

Seapoint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123809267#Comment_123809267

Good morning @tazzzZ

I'm looking at going down the WAS110 route also. Where did you pick up yours? Was it pre-flashed etc? Did you have overheating issues? What router are you feeding the WAS110 in to?

Thanks a million!

tazzzZ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123817629#Comment_123817629

So I got mine from fibremall.

https://www.fibermall.com/sale-460693-xgspon-onu-sfp-stick.htm

I believe there is a uk company selling them too… i dont have the link to hand. I had to make a request for the firmware but it seems they have added the option onto the fibremall website now. 8311 community is an option. In my case they only put 8311 firmware on 1 of the partitions. 8311 recommend you put it on both. I havent… mostly because its just worked since i set it up.

I havent had any overheating issue at all but I have a 120mm fan blowing at it since its been in full operation. I did have issues access the firmware GUI initially but this was a ubiquiti software/permissions issue. It was very confusing because it would let me access it sometimes and sometimes it wouldnt but it was a permissions thing. And I use a UDM-P as my router. I have a full ubiquiti stack setup.

Seapoint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123821635#Comment_123821635

Thanks @tazzzZ , I'm pulling my hair out since I "upgraded" from my good old coax.

I'm using Mikrotik for my set-up and it's been gathering dust since I got the Hub5x

I'll head down the FibreMall route!

Again, much appreciated😁

NotShero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123821716#Comment_123821716

There's also the option of getting Vodafone or Sky through Virgin FTTP, an external ONT would then be installed.

ArrBee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123821635#Comment_123821635

I wasn't aware of this possibility! it looks like a cool option. :)

Is it mostly for VM customers who have the ONT and router combined?
Like, if I have NBI, and have a 10Gbe copper connection from ONT to UDMP-SE, would there be much benefit cutting out the ONT?

NotShero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123821746#Comment_123821746

There's only a guide for Virgin as it is a similar process to the UK. NBI, SIRO and Open Eir would need investigating to see if they could be supported, possibly by the 8311 themselves. There would be no benefit really anyway as like you said it's really only needed for customers that have Virgin through Virgin FTTP with the combined Hub 5x.

tazzzZ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123821746#Comment_123821746

No benefit at all. ONT installed is a better solution really since you dont have to worry about the WAS-110 getting insanely hot. Which it does. Like burn your finger to the touch hot. So you wont need a fan.

tazzzZ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123821739#Comment_123821739

I know VM themselves will give you a spiel that only they will give you an uncongested connection… I have no idea if thats true… but I like the thought of not sharing my connection. But in reality it likely wont have any effect on your connection. I am a high volume user though. My UDMP reports nearly 8TB usage since the 1st of sept.

Seapoint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123821887#Comment_123821887

I originally had an ONT installed via Vodafone which I ditched during the 14 day cooling off period as it was €€ for only a 1GB connection versus the 5GB from Virgin. The 5x is absolutely head wrecking. Everything I have is via a tunnel so IPv4 and opening ports isn't really an issue but still, why do they force customers to use the crap equipment.