Looking ahead at the potential Irish team/bench/squad/backup for RWC27

Jump_In_Jack

I think by the time we reach RWC27 there’s a good chance we’ll be without Bealham, Henderson, Beirne, Conan, Gibson-Park, Lowe, and Aki. If any of those are still around the Irish squad it would surely not be as a first choice option as they would’ be well past their prime by then.

At this time it looks like,

Bealham: Clarkson looks set to replace Bealham at some point, with O’Toole, Aungier, and Wilson as decent depth behind Clarkson. Jager needs a good season to get himself back into contention.

Henderson: Izuchukwu is a strong candidate to become a regular squad member, with Darragh Murray potentially as further depth, and Tom Ahern and Edwin Edogbo possible options there too.

Beirne: Baird and Prendergast look set to battle it out for the blind-side flanker position. Ahern also could be an option. Diarmuid Mangan caught the attention, if he can go up another gear this season it would be interesting.

Conan: Nick Timoney, Gavin Coombes, Max Deegan and James Culhane look like good depth, with Sean Jansen another decent prospect. McNabney has a mountain to climb to get into contention but he showed he has something special and could fight his way into contention. Brian Gleeson another high-potential number 8 coming through.

Gibson-Park: Casey looks like the most likely successor with Blade, Doak, Murphy and Gunne all decent depth options. Matthew Devine is highly thought of in Connacht also but remains to be seen if he can step up another level.

Lowe: Stockdale if he can get back to the form he showed this season would be a readymade replacement, with Shane Bolton and Zac Ward as other options if we need a physically dominant winger. Calvin Nash, Tommy O’Brien and Jimmy O’Brien are all good depth players too. I’ve also been impressed with Chay Mullins at Connacht and now the 7’s pathway is gone he’ll have to solely focus on 15’s. Diarmuid Kilgallen has been impressive of late also.

Aki: McCloskey and Henshaw are the current backup options for Aki, but only time will tell if either one can hold off the up and coming talent coming though, with Osbourne pushing for a spot anywhere in the backline, and talented prospects like Hugh Gavin and Cathal Forde looking likely to have a breaktout season as Aki begins to wind down at Connacht over the coming season. Jude Postletheaite is another rising star that has great potential. And watch this space for Dan Kelly who has just signed for Munster.

Two years may seem like a long time but it’s actually fairly short in terms of bringing through untested players, there aren’t a whole lot of international windows and it becomes increasingly unlikely a player would make the jump up if they haven’t played a six nations match or a match against a top team.

Any other prospects that look likely to make a breakthrough in the coming season?

FtD v2

Who’s Bryan Ward?

You mean Zac Ward? Can’t see him being that close to the Irish squad anytime too soon.

I think, as someone responded on another thread- you could see Hansen shift to 11 if Lowe moves on and Tommy O’Brien into the 14 shirt if he can just stay healthy.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058421031/looking-ahead-at-the-potential-irish-team-bench-squad-backup-for-rwc27

I think Kilgallen is another who could come into Ireland squads this season. He had a brilliant end of season, and has that raw pace we’re lacking on the wing.

VdF is another who won’t be past it at 34 by the time the RWC comes around, but may not be in the starting 7 jersey by then, depending on how things go. It’ll be interesting to see what happens there as I think Doris is one of the few to start a Test vs a tier 1 nation (albeit Italy) outside of VdF in the last number of years.

AbusesToilets

Hoping we see Boyle and Clarkson get a decent amount of game time this season, should be able to get them ready by the WC, if they progress well. Be nice if some young locks can make a breakthrough. There's so much talent coming through in the centres, I worry Farrell is going to waste time available persisting with the old heads. Ideally like to see one of the younger lads playing every game for Ireland going forward.

Lost Ormond

Tjeres been a few others of th3se threads already..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288140/rwc-2027-squad-prediction

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123694938#Comment_123694938

That thread was two years ago, before the last World Cup! What are the few others?

I did look for a recent thread but couldn’t find one, but I only searched back the last year or so.

At this point in time two years out from the World Cup I think it would be ok to begin a fresh discussion about it.

Podge_irl

I wouldn't be so sure on JGP not being first choice though Casey is far and away the obvious candidate otherwise. Bit of a "who the hell knows" behind him though.

I don’t think at this stage we should be expecting any of the current centres to make it.

Would echo above that I dont really have a clue who is coming behind VDF.

Juventu4

If Henderson, Aki and Henshaw are in the Irish squad come 2027 RWC we're fucked. Irelands age profile isn't great in many areas and the rebuild should have happened last Autumn.

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123695512#Comment_123695512

The problem with this view is IMHO is that it's fundamentally wrong. If you are constantly looking to the future you will never enjoy the present. Teams always evolve. Players move in and out.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123695529#Comment_123695529

Its possible to enjoy the present while still being of the opinion that the squad needs freshening up with a view to the future.

It’s not fundamentally wrong; both things can be true.

I think it’s pretty clear that we will see - and need to see - some change in the squad in the next 1-2 seasons.

OldRio

Absolutely in that regard. Good managers always look to the future. Alas some fans never seem to enjoy the moment.

Jump_In_Jack

A current squad Vs A potential ‘27 squad:

LHP: Porter » same
HKR: Sheehan » same
THP: Furlong » same
LHL: Ryan » same
THL: J McCarthy » same
BSF: Beirne » Baird
OSF: Van der Flier » same
No8: Doris » same
SHF: Gibson-Park » Casey
OHF: Prendergast » same
LWG: Lowe » Stockdale
ICE: Aki » Osbourne
OCE: Ringrose » same
RWG: Hansen » same
FBK: Keenan » same

Bench:
HKR: Kelleher » same
LHP: Boyle » same
THP: Bealham » Clarkson
LCK: Henderson » Izuchukwu
BRF: Conan » Timoney
SHF: Casey » B Murphy
OHF: Crowley » same
OBK: Henshaw » J O’Brien

Squad:
HKR: Herring » G McCarthy
LHP: Milne » same
THP: Clarkson » O’Toole
LCK: Izuchukwu » D Murray
BRF: Prendergast » same
BRF: Timoney » Kendellen
SHF: Blade » Doak
OHF: Frawley » same
CEN: Osbourne » Henshaw
BK3: Stockdale » T O’Brien

Backup:
HKR: G McCarthy » Stewart
LHP: P McCarthy » same
THP: O’Toole » Aungier
LCK: D Murray » E Edogbo
BRF: Ahern » same
BRF: Kendellen » McNabney
SHF: Doak » Gunne
OHF: J Murphy » same
CEN: McCloskey » Postlethwaite
BK3: J O’Brien » Nash

TRC10

Assuming Osborne replaces Aki in the team, and Baird replaces POM, we could have 13 Leinster players in the starting XV in the near future. Then with Tadhg Beirne getting old, and TOB snapping at Hansens heels, it’s not inconceivable that we see an entire Leinster Irish XV soon

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123695529#Comment_123695529

Teams always evolve. Players move in and out.

This, squared.

People seem to think a team can only be regenerated with a massive all-in-one clear out. This has two major flaws;

1. we need to keep winning
2. We have never had and will never have the player base to do it

The only way we can operate is bringing players in when they show they can offer something.

People get completely fixated on who we haven’t got rid of yet and totally overlook the players who we have brought through.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123695908#Comment_123695908

I think the issue is, the should have been a steady evolution after the World Cup, but there hasn’t been. Other than the changing of the guard at 10 (which obviously was enforced with Sexton retiring), the only unenforced change to the starting XV in 2 years has been Joe McCarthy. Other than that it’s the exact same team from the World Cup. So we’re now in a position where we’re in need of a revolution. Otherwise we’ll be going to Australia with a team of guys in their mid/late 30s who are way over the hill.

OldRio

Evolution not revolution. Plenty of time.

OldRio

We are ranked number 3 at the present time. There is a reason for that.

theVersatile

The answer to this is always "less change from status quo than you'd expect".

2027 Matchday Squad (assuming no injury enforced retirements).

Porter, Sheahan, Furlong, McCarthy, Ryan, Beirne, JVDF, Doris, JGP, Prendergast/Crowley, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringrose, Hansen, Keenan

Kelleher, Boyle, Bealham/Clarkson, Baird, Conan, Casey, Crowley/Prendergast, Osborne

Morgans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123695951#Comment_123695951

Yes. Because we were Number 1 two years ago.

I would have us realistically the third best team in Europe. A loss to any of the four southern hemisphere team would not be a surprise. I dont mind winning six nations and let's see what a WC brings, but I think we need to improve to do so, and not sure there is that capacity in the team without a proper rethink.

I would pick players with a future and develop them. Make some hard calls, even if it means giving less time to better players.

I'd like to see Casey, Clarkson, Osborne, O'Brien at the very least. I'd be looking to move on from Furlong, Ryan, JVDF, Aki, JGP, Henshaw, Lowe. They have given us the best Irish side ever but best days are behind them, even if they are the clear best in Ireland currently.

Lot of talk of world class talent in Ireland and then Jordi Barrett shows Leinster what the term means in 6 months, putting everyone in the shade.

AbusesToilets

Competition breeds excellence. We ought to be proactive in looking to bring lads in for guys who are clearly past it.

ongarite

The IRFU can't afford the wholesale team changes that is being suggested.

The Irish team has to keep winning for the required finances to keep coming in. Even this year with Ireland failing to win Six Nations Championship has had repercussions for 7s team.

So gradual change is the only way with Lowe starting & playing 50 mins, then a sub for last 20 & then retirement after that. Just cutting them for the next player in line isn't best for Irish team IMO.

letsbefair

There is no reason to be so pessimistic the academies are full of talent coming through. Andy F will bring them through. For our playing population we are very good at developing class players and its not going to suddenly stop.

crossman47

I don't think Ringrose or Ryan should be playing next year, never mind 2027. They've had a number of concussions and should retire for the good of their long term health. I hope they're getting good advice.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123696145#Comment_123696145

This is same tired argument that comes up with this conversation. It's not an either or situation. Bringing in younger players serves to strengthen the team, both in the short and long term.

bingobango12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123696008#Comment_123696008

Agree with you on that. Far less changes are likely to happen by 2027. I think this season Osbourne takes Henshaws spot at Leinster though, and with Rieko Ioane coming in it will be tough to see how Henshaw makes matchday squads towards the end of the season with Leinster, never mind Ireland. I think the centres named for this 6 nations could well be Osbourne, Aki, McCloskey, Ringrose and Gavin.

Former Former Former

Ok, here’s a question.

If our first choice 23 is something like:

Porter, Sheehan, Furlong

Beirne McCarthy

Doris Conan VDF

JGP Prendergast

Lowe Henshaw Ringrose Hansen Keenan

Kelleher Boyle Bealham Ryan Baird Casey Crowley Aki

Who are the masses of proven young players who should be in that 23 but are not?

Larbre34

Bealham and Aki definitely don't make the RWC for me. Furlong and Henshaw probably don't. And Lowe might not.

With that in mind, you're looking at Tom Clarkson to have a massive 2 years, ditto Jamie Osborne, and the two unrelated O'Briens, Tommy and Jimmy.

These next couple of seasons are make or break for a whole host of players when it comes to becoming Ireland squad regulars, like Coombes, Deegan, Cian Prendergast, Frawley and Doak.

And the door has probably already closed for people like Scott Penny, Ross Molony (even if he comes home), Calvin Nash, Jordan Larmour and Tom Ahern.

The other imponderable is people like Gus McCarthy, an absolutely class young player who finds himself behind two Lions and Ireland XXIII players, at his own bloody Club! And while he is an extreme example, the likes of him absolutely need to move Clubs to thrive. I would say the same about the aforementioned Max Deegan.

The old problems remain. If you're a very good loose forward, it won't be good enough to remain on as a regular in an Irish Club, you'll have to be excellent. But if you're a decent prop or halfback, chances are you'll have a successful provincial career if injury is kind to you.

In my opinion, David Humphries needs to set up a process of one or two season long loan deals to England, Australia and even Japan, Wales and Scotland, where Irish players who might otherwise not get more than a handful of URC games by remaining in Ireland, can play regularly for professional Clubs in decent leagues and yet remain officially available for Ireland selection, and be included in an ongoing pathway conversation with elite development staffers here at home. I say these countries because RSA and NZ have little need of our people and the privately owned French league sides are unlikely to spare the rod, and to honour availability agreements with a central body like Irish Rugby.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123696404#Comment_123696404

Clarkson should be backed imo. Not sure Kelleher's throwing is good enough to warrant being no.2 by default. I'd back Baird to start at 6, and consider one of the younger options ahead of Conan. He's better now, but in 2 years, it's doubtful.

Osborne should be starting at 12, with Forde, Gavin and Postlewaithe looked at too. TOB to start, JOB & Hansen to fill out the 23.

Morgans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123696404#Comment_123696404

The issue is that if you don't give the opportunities to younger players then you'll be having that argument for ever. They won't ever be 'proven'.

That team will not be better than the 23 team. Might get lucky with the draw and get to a semi final. Fingers crossed but an average draw gets them to the QF again.

Boyle McCarthy Clarkson Mangan edogbo tob, Osborne Gavan etc...

Guess it's easier to fast track development in Leinster. Even if three come through it would be a huge boost.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123696473#Comment_123696473

I’d agree Clarkson could be backed given Bealham is nearly 34 but it’s not a great injustice given Bealham’s recent form.

It’s hard to see how Osborne is hard done by until he can overtake Henshaw or Ringrose at Leinster.

All the rest is focused on who you want rid of, not who should come in, and that’s the constant failure of this argument, we simply don’t have the depth to clean house and start over.

We can “have a look” at whoever we want but none of these guys should be in the first 23 as of now.

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123696442#Comment_123696442

Curious as to why the door has closed for Nash and Aherne?

Nash has performed well for Ireland and Aherne, well, has he even had a chance to get in the door?