Cohabiting query

Shamrocksandclovers

Hi there,

My partner is on DA and I'm on long term Illness Benefit (2009). If we decide to cohabit would we still be able to claim our single rates or would I have to become my partners dependant...ie assessed as a couple?

Many thanks.

AugustRain

you can both keep your single rates.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419764/cohabiting-query

Not at all sure how you could be on illness benefit since 2009, the maximum a person can be on it is Two years assuming you've enough contributions.

Shamrocksandclovers

@Dempo1 the rules for Illness Benefit changed in 2009 and you are correct, you are only allowed to be on it for maximum two years. However I'm on it since late 2008. Different rules apply and I had enough contributions.

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123649439#Comment_123649439

Operational Guidelines: Illness Benefit

Quote:

" Exception to limited duration 624 days

• A customer who makes a claim for IB which starts after 5 January 2009 but which is part of the same period of incapacity (in other words not separated by more than 3 days) as a previous IB claim which started before 5 January 2009 will be entitled to payment for a continuous duration. To form the same period of incapacity the new IB claim can be linked to the previous IB claim through a paid claim for Illness Benefit, Occupational Injury Benefit, Invalidity Pension, Back to Work Allowance, Back To Education Allowance, Carer's Allowance or Carer's Benefit.

For example, a customer is in receipt of:

• IB from 22 September 2008 to 20 January 2009
• Carer's Allowance from 21 January 2009 to 30 April 2009
• Claims IB from 1 May 2009. This customer is entitled to receive payment of IB for a "continuous duration" as each claim is not separated by more than 3 days and, therefore, form one period of incapacity.

Continuous duration (CD)

Prior to 5 January 2009 a customer who has paid a total of 260 or more contributions at an appropriate class, since entering employment, is entitled to receive payment of Illness Benefit for as long as that customer is incapable of work up to the age of 66. A claim category of 'continuous duration' (CD) applies in this case.

A customer who was in receipt of Illness Benefit on 4 July 1988 (when the total contributions required changed from 208 to 260) is entitled to Illness Benefit continuously if their claims form a part of a period of incapacity for work which commenced before 4 July 1988."

The customer is also entitled to a weekly PRSI credit- which under certain conditions can be used for an entitlement to a contributory pension. Somebody on IB/Continuous duration has clocked up well over 850 credits.

Dempo1

Seems rather Bizzare, I'd have thought Disability Allowance would have been a More appropriate option for someone who has an illness expected to last more than 12 months.

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123651204#Comment_123651204

IB/CD is a non means tested payment. So it is rather convenient for someone with additional means or income. You can have a million euros on the bank, own a large farm and the wife could run a lucrative business. You would still get the full rate. The only drawback until recently was the lack of a Christmas bonus- but that got changed as well. None of the persons on IB/CD expected to be on it for so long. Nobody has a crystal ball. The department does not force people of the old scheme- and everyone on it reaches 66 at one stage. This thing will simply cease to exist the natural way.

I was on it myself for a long time and I never asked to be put on DA. It would have been of no benefit to me.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123651279#Comment_123651279

Whilst all true a person on Illness Benefit is not entitled to additional allowances. I also presume a person on illness benefit has to continue submitting Sick certs and at a substantial cost if supplying them for a number of years. Those on DA don't have to submit sick certs but as with every SW payment, it is subject to review.

People tend to dwell on means testing but avoiding it also means no Medical Card, Fuel allowance etc

It's completely illogical to be on illness benefit for well over a decade. Also worth mentioning, people on DA who've paid contributions prior to going on DA are entitled to credited Contributions. I have another thread on this Topic

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123657719#Comment_123657719

Can you post a thread link?

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123657719#Comment_123657719

I never paid a penny for any cert. The only cost I had was a weekly- and much later a half yearly stamp to send the cert to the department. In the end it was fully electronic and I did not even need a stamp.

I was called for medical assessments several times- but all my expenses were paid by the department.

The whole thing dragged on and on and on because the HSE shoved me from one waiting list to the other. There is absolutely nothing illogical about the whole thing. IB is a short term payment, designed to help customers over with a health problem. You used to get it as long as you qualified for it. Of course that changed since. But those who qualified pre 2009 will still stay on the scheme as long as they qualify and as long as they are not reaching pension age. You might not like this scenario- but it is still a fact.

I once read in a Dail question that the longest time a customer got IB was 30 years. That is a long time….

In my case the health problem could have been solved at an early stage- but because of the failure of the whole system my problems got chronic. It was actually the HSE which made sure to get me permanently sick.

Indeed- you get the medical card only under certain conditions. But with the high rents and high mortgages more people qualify than you think. You can offset all these costs and qualify that way.

gipi

Hawthorne,have you ever been considered for Invalidity Pension?

It's paid at a higher rate than IB.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658066#Comment_123658066

That's why I asked @Dempo1 for a link to the thread, a relative was on D/A but was taken off due to a new means test so applied for invalidity pension but didn't think they had enough contributions. Anyway, they were awarded it and are now getting €60 a week more than when on D/A when the tax is deducted and even the loss of the household benefits package is taken into account.

It's kind of madness that they were kind of content in getting what they were and just about managing to get by but now are getting a lot more because of a means test review. It must have been what Dempo said about getting credited contributions. They are now getting over €3000 per year more because of a review. The DSP shooting themselves in the foot.

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658066#Comment_123658066

I was not aware of this possibility. So I never considered it. And the department did not ask me either. There were no further medical assessments done after I turned 56. I kept sending in my half yearly certs and kept getting my weekly payment.

Anyway- it is all water under the bridge- I passed pension age some time ago and get the contributory pension now.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658114#Comment_123658114

Neither was my relative who was on D/A, they had no idea there was other options and just assumed they were on the correct payment until the review made them look into it with the help of citizens advice who said they most likely would not qualify for invalidity pension. Unless you know the system you won't be on what you should be IMO.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658030#Comment_123658030

Well you must be unique in not paying for a Sick Cert. The DSP pay for the initial examination & Cert as part of an assessment before Illness benefit is paid. It is my understanding that in order to continue recieving illness benefit, a monthly cert is required to be submitted. I find it hard to believe any GP is going to issue a sick cert free, especially over a decade or more.

Obviously if you had a Medical card there would be no charge.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658093#Comment_123658093

Here you go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058344763/credited-contributions-disability-allowance

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658093#Comment_123658093

IP & DA are actually paid at the same rate. I've not heard of anyone loosing DA because of a Means test, their rate might be reduced. In addition if a person was on DA for say two years or more, they would unlikely qualify for IP as they'd not have paid contributions during that period & as far as I'm aware to qualify for IP, they look at contributions in the Two years prior to application.

There are also subtle medical eligibility differences between IP & DA. Namely IP may be awarded if an illness / disability is Permanent where as DA is based on an illness /Disability lasting more than 12 months.

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658551#Comment_123658551

They were on D/A since 2009 and after a means test review the partner was earning too much so it was taken off him. He was on a reduced rate since starting due to being self employed prior to being put on it and neither realised they had to notify DSP every year when she got a small pay rise which eventually brought them over the means allowed for D/A. The illness is permanent, it was just a lack of knowledge about entitlements and rules that led them to being taken off D/A but ending up over 3k better off because of it.

hawthorne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658510#Comment_123658510

Indeed-I had a medical card. About half of the population have either a medical card or a GP only card. So it is not that unusual that certs carry no big financial burden for an IB claimant.

In many cases, there is only a first medical examination by the GP, which would cost the patient without a card a certain fee. The department accepts the practice of the GPs of not doing a follow up examination every week. No use doing this if the diagnosis was initially done and no change in the health condition occurred since. All these continuous weekly/monthly/half yearly exams would also clog up the doctors clinic. For years I just went to the receptionist and got my cert handed without seeing the doctor. The certs itself are free for everybody, regardless of the patient having a card or not. The GPs are getting an agreed fee from the department for every cert issued.

When the system was changed from paperwork to digital certs, it got even more anonymous. There was actually a thread about this carry on done somewhere in this forum some years back.

IMO reaches deal on new fees for social welfare forms - Medical Independent

There is some serious money for the doctors involved in the issuing of sick certs- all paid by the department:

GPs in Ireland received €44m for issuing sick certs for social welfare purposes last year, as top earners revealed | Irish Independent

AugustRain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123658551#Comment_123658551

hi dempo

IP is €5.50 more then the max rate of DA.

The PRSI criteria for IP is rather complicated.
you need 260 contributions, you need 48 in the relevant tax year (or the year before that) BEFORE YOU BECAME INCAPACITATED.
So technically you could be working, then on illness benefit for 2 years and then be on DA for numerous years (but not working) and still qualify for IP if you applied for it.

babyducklings1

Just stepped into this thread but see that the term ‘ customer’ is being used in operational guidelines.Wow !! Seems very transactional and not very nice.

Shamrocksandclovers

I paid GP for the initial consultation to get my Illness Benefit cert. After that, I called GP receptionist weekly, monthly, then every six months to order cert free of charge. It's now issued electronically, so I send an email to order it, again at no charge.

AugustRain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123661439#Comment_123661439

how would you prefer people in receipt of SW be described?

babyducklings1

Why not simply say ‘ a person.’

AugustRain

“person” is awful. It’s also quite possible now that some people applying for public services don’t identify as “persons” and will find that offensive.
People applying for public services are customers or clients the same as people buying coffee in a cafe and are entitled to be treated with the same respect and dignity.