AIL 25/26

Lost Ormond

Garryowen beat Crescent 29-15 in senior cup opener in rosbrien in front of decent crowd tonight. 2 late tries for crescent put gloss on score. Garryowen were comfortable enough with their last score an intercept as crescent were hammering on garryowen line just as game entered final quarter

madds

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123788858#Comment_123788858

There's a couple of clubs in Dublin paying sizable fees to players to persuade them to sign up. IRFU turning a blind eye to it.

luke9311

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123789539#Comment_123789539

yeah u wouldnt be too far off tbh… id say even more than double that for 1a/1b clubs… i remember a DOR to one of the college teams in 1a a few years ago whispers got around amongst other players and supporters in other clubs he was on well above 6 figure salary that said as a DOR of a uni side he would be responsible for way more than just the senior side and be workings with other teams too! Nure bringing in a high profile name this year was plastered all over the paper also…. i highly doubt hes only is only just getting by on an average coaching salary…. probably not the only club at it either tho tbf to them

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Jamie Conway starting for Shannon. Alex Lautsou on the bench. Two high profile school leavers.

Lost Ormond

No real shocks in munster senior cup games

Nenagh Cookies con Shannon Highfield and midleton getting the wins

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

UCD lost 22-21 to Blackrock.

Terenure defeated Marys 28-17

Limerick-Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123791283#Comment_123791283

Seems Shannon really struggled against Bruff and were 22 - 10 at one stage in the second half.

Lost Ormond

Next weeks Munster fixtures

plate quarter finals
Clonmel v Cashel
Bohs v Bruff
Old Crescent v Dolphin
Thomond bye

Cup quarter finals
Highfield v Young Munster
Midleton v Shannon
Nenagh v Cork Con
UCC v Garryowen

Leinster Double header of finals Saturday

Cup: Terenure v Lansdowne

League: Barnhall v Greystones

Limerick-Kid

Average AIL club costs about €250k a year to run and that is before players are paid (I understand some clubs are paying players😲)

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123795395#Comment_123795395

How does that figure break down, is that facilities, rent, utilities, maintenance only?
What would a playing budget of a 1A/1B club be out of interest?

Chirpo123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123795395#Comment_123795395

There are clubs in the North operating at less than £50k total budget - this is reflected in the relatively poor performances over the last few years especially in the upper echelons.

There are some that operate way above this (not difficult to guess who looking at results over the last few years).

Limerick-Kid

AIL Club costs would include insurance, facilities, utility bills, maintenance, sundry items, food, travel & accommodation, equipment, gear, coaches, professional fees (legal and accountants), IT costs/subscriptions, IRFU/Branch registration fees, loan repayments, and miscellaneous stuff like underage end of season medals etc. Probably leaving out stuff here.

It all adds up and membership subs doesn't cover it hence all clubs need fundraising events and volunteers.

For clubs that are paying players a big budget or generous benefactor is needed.

I don't see any club being able to pay its basic bills on €50K or even €100k tbh.

Tipp1991

Any clubhouse with a bar is liable for commercial rates also. I've seen cases of this costing a club €3 or 4k a year alone

Chirpo123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123796325#Comment_123796325

Sorry my £50k comment was in relation to an AIL budget - a 1st XV budget including coaching, travel, accommodation, food, physio & kit.

The running costs for the remainder of the club would be the same regardless if they are an AIL club or a Junior Club.

There are plenty of clubs who run at breakeven or slightly better with membership, bar income, sponsorship, IRFU travel grants, fundraising (YCYC, pre match lunches), gate money and facility hire income covering any running costs - ownership of your own grounds and bar are obviously important factors to reach that point of sustainability.

The key is not to spend beyond your means, which most clubs haven't got the hang of, hence the reliance on benefactors - and of course none of the match fees / win bonuses / accommodation costs are going through the club books because that's not allowed and clubs have to submit a Regulation 6 form to confirm that they don't pay players or provide any financial benefit…

Limerick-Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798619#Comment_123798619

100%. I have heard of one club taking out a loan for the purpose of developing facilities and a portion of the funds managed to get diverted to "extra assistant coach costs" - i.e. new player recruitment.

Think the wheels will come off more than a few clubs in the next 18 months if the sums being touted as spent on "sign on fees" are to be believed, and not just in 1A.

This escalation in clubs throwing money at players for recruitment and to stay competitive spiralled about 15 years ago before Reg 6 came in and a few clubs nearly went bankrupt. Problem is that it seems IRFU has zero interest in taking this issue on and you just never hear of any club in recent years being brought to task over breaches of Reg 6.

Tipp1991

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123798995#Comment_123798995

You only ever hear of the low hanging fruit.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-30973931.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/shannon-deducted-a-point-by-irfu-for-breaching-regulations-1.3840269

luke9311

on the note of clubs and budgets funds etc etc. I'm genuinely interested to know as i dont honestly know if the union do or not!…. but do the union give a pay out bonus/ prize money for thoughs clubs that win their respective leagues div 1 leagues in particular? i'd imagine a league win would be huge benefit to the club in general for record purposes when it comes to looking for sponsorship and or private investments & backers but don't generally know on the day do u just get a trophy as a prize or do the union give something also?

Chico Flores

I dont know if there is a price pool for the league winners - never heard so

Reality is, if not every single club in the country - 95% of the senior clubs are giving players money in some guise. Either to cover expenses (and what that is - too much for diesel), to rent, to match fees - using cash from the gate etc

My own just as bad if not worse, sure we were giving out Ipads for man of them match few years back, which was an awful look. Im living abroad now, but from what I know this year in particular was an out and out " how much can I get" from players at every level. Not saying it is right or wrong, but regulation 6 is a joke, if they catch one club, they would have to catch them all

Limerick-Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123800604#Comment_123800604

No prize money or bonus for winning the AIL.

The only thing AIL clubs have received from Energia (as main sponsor) was a couple of pitch side signs and bunting - that was a few years ago.

It would be interesting to know where the sponsorship money from Energia goes - into the IRFU general fund no doubt?

Previous sponsors like Ulster Bank and AIB at least provided post pads and flags which was something of benefit to clubs.

Stainalert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123800604#Comment_123800604

There is no financial prize for the respective league winners

somespud

Another question that has puzzled me for a while, what's the benefit to clubs that develop players from a young age and if they are good enough said players are drafted to academies and maybe onto full provincial contracts. Are clubs financially compensated for producing such players to the detriment of their own senior team

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123802239#Comment_123802239

There is recognition of clubs who helped develop players who go on to professional level. to what extent isnt really publically known but clubs do get support. there is articlels from nearly 20 years ago when scheme was introduced but its still in place in some form

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2007/06/06/irfu-rewards-for-development-programme/

Chirpo123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123800604#Comment_123800604

There is no prize money for winning the leagues.

The only IRFU payments to clubs are travel related - there is a price per km for travel over a certain distance, and an allowance for a hotel for matches over a certain distance away. I'd say it covers around 40-50% of the actual cost of bus and hotel for a club staying overnight.

The clever clubs the money doesn't come near the club, it's a sponsor or local business who "employs" a player or their wife and they call round and pick up an envelope, or they employ them on an inflated salary that includes car or accommodation.

Happens everywhere, it's how a lot of English pro clubs used to get around the salary cap, lot of wives on the payroll of club sponsors.

CBC14

I think a 1A team would be spending somewhere between 100 - 200k on player costs. This would be broken into rent, match payments, top 4 bonuses etc. A top 1A player I would estimate to cost between 10 - 20k. It’s a lot of money and it’s a mystery to me how clubs fund it. Other than Lansdowne who seem to operate an excellent commercial operation out of their Aviva headquarters, I’d imagine it’s wealthy members subsidising it.

luke9311

i think personally cutting costs wise on travel etc etc the most cleverest thing years back was cookies getting bus eireann on baord as main sponsor in a league where your up and down the country to teams most weekends it probably cut out a hell of alot of expenses id imagine from a travel point of view

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123802519#Comment_123802519

I really think you are over estimating things by tens of tens of thousands. But yeah in all clubs its members toping up what clubs get from sponsors as well

CBC14

yeah I don’t think I am but respect your view. I know for a fact a Cork Con player was approached by a Dublin club this summer with a package between rent & match fees that totalled 20k, and he stayed with Con. not sure the agreement that was reached but it wasn’t cheap. Nenagh themselves have recruited Aussies + Munster academy players, Kev Seymour and Cronan Gleeson. Maybe all for the love of the club

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123808140#Comment_123808140

Of all names you could have picked for players moving. You picked terrible examples. You picked 2 guys moving back to their original home club. And academy players were gone to nenagh as munster insisted on it happening. Not money.

typhoony

Lansdowne v Terenure is live tomorrow on BF Sports Analysis youtube channel

Lost Ormond

Connacht League Final is tomorrow Corinthians v Sligo in Corinthians with hosts going for a first league title in 30 years