Herbert Road / N11 junction closure ⚠️

Hamsterchops

The permanent closure of the Herbert road in Bray will go ahead, unless …...

The plan is to put a bus corridor down on the N11, whilst permanently closing the Herbert road at the Kilbride Church junction ⚠️

April 2025 and no work has begun - Yet.

DaSchmo

Amazing how things like this with absolutely zero, literally no local support gets rammed through. Nobody in Bray wants this. You won't find one local politician or councilor speaking in favor of it. I see local opposition is starting to mobilise but it's not clear what exactly they can do to stop this. I wish them well anyway… can somebody, anybody, please explain the "case for" closing the Herbert road?

Allinall

If no councilor is in favour of it, who decided to do it?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123367846#Comment_123367846

The proposal will not close Herbert Rd. It will close off access to/from the N11 to facilitate a bus lane. So John or Mary who have no option but to live further south can have some way of getting to/from work more quickly and not be stuck in traffic.

The NIMBY response from some people of Bray (it is a lie to state that "Nobody in Bray wants this") is expected because generally people don't want to lose a convenience when it comes to driving but the greater good must prevail!

Maybe you can give us all a valid reason why a priority measures for public transport should not be allowed proceed on the N11

Plastik

Their arguments also conveniently ignore the full junction 7 freeflow redesign which would need to be in place before Herbert Rd/N11 closes.

Seemingly obviously solution is to link Herbert rd jctn with Dargle Lane and the new Jctn 6 link road but I can only assume it has been considered and isn't workable because of the gradients involved.

magicbastarder

strikes me as the usual quandary where those who benefit (say in kilmac/kilpedder/towns further south) have no say in the matter - local politics looks after those who lose, rather than those who would gain.

DaSchmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368088#Comment_123368088

Closing it to traffic is "closing herbert road" and to imply that the proposal is anything else is twisting it. Do you live in Bray? I do and I have heard nothing positive about it from anybody in the town, and have not seen a single comment in the media old or new by anybody in the town that is in any way positive on the subject. Feel free to post a link to the contrary, I'd genuinely be interested to hear what their take is. There are limited routes into the town and the traffic is already mental. As it stands the people who live there have nothing to gain from this and it can hardly be rocket science to have both a bus lane and that junction or some form of junction there.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368366#Comment_123368366

Closing it to traffic is "closing herbert road" and to imply that the proposal is anything else is twisting it.

You are being decietful with that claim - Herbert Road is not closing. Only access to & from the N11 will close. One can still walk/cycle/drive/whatever the length of the road.

Do you live in Bray?

Do I need to live there to have an opinion?

I do and I have heard nothing positive about it from anybody in the town, and have not seen a single comment in the media old or new by anybody in the town that is in any way positive on the subject.

So you're moving away from your original claim that "Nobody in Bray wants this" to one of nobody you have interacted with wants it. I've no idea how many people you have spoken to or what media you consume, nor does it matter.
As an example, have you spoken to residents of Herbert road who are looking forward to having a quieter road which will make it safer for them and their kids?

There are limited routes into the town and the traffic is already mental.

So, we should have more routes into the town that are congested? Great plan 🙄

As it stands the people who live there have nothing to gain from this and it can hardly be rocket science to have both a bus lane and that junction or some form of junction there.

I've given you one example of a benefit to people who live there.
Already Bray has three large interchanges with the N11 along a relatively short distance and you think it would be appropriate to create a fourth?
As I posted previously, you simply don't want to lose your convenience when you are driving and you feel that your convenience should trump that of people travelling from further south by public transport which, beling blunt about it, really is a selfish motive.

So, getting back to my original question - can you give a valid reason why a priority measures for public transport should not be allowed proceed on the N11?

Plastik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368366#Comment_123368366

I live in Bray. Near junction 7. Am totally fine with the proposal.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368088#Comment_123368088

This must be a hallunication/some kind of try on.The traffic that could exit the M11 onto the Herbert to reach parts that are clogged i.e. the main street,the seafront will now have to take their chances and time at the Kilcroney exit which is already overloaded and causes a blockage on M11 southbound down to the Herbert Rd exit every working days.

Its bad enough right now when I go home(further south).This is project dreamed up by the TFI/NRA quango.The frequency of Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann(Including the BE 131 route) on that road does not justify any change.The next proposal will be to bulldoze that church at Herbert Road

beachhead

#9

You must helicopter.You would also have no need to use the Herbert Road unless in an extreme panic about something

Hamsterchops

I can only presume the Church at the junction will be severely affected with access being denied to those who travel to Church and then exit onto the N11. Surely being buried at the bottom of a cul-de-sac will make weddings & funerals particularly difficult never mind normal service?

JVince

Brady is a sensationalist fool and far too many people in bray simply believe the sensationalist rubbish he spouts.

"Thousands of additional cars" from the Sea Gardens development is what he peddles to try and frighten people into believing his rubbish.

Those who can understand what is actually happening seem quite happy with the proposal and can see beyond the claptrap of Brady

beachhead

At least there will be plenty of parking for them on Herbert Road and a pleasant drive via Kilbride Lane to the main road out of the town with it's fantastic traffic light sequencing.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368948#Comment_123368948

The frequency of Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann(Including the BE 131 route) on that road does not justify any change.

If commuters can travel to and from the city along the N11 without getting caught up in congested traffic then more of them will opt for public transport. The proposal here is for the tried and tested "build it and they will come approach"!

I'm finding it very amusing that those opposed to the change still have not put forward a reasonable reason not to prioritise public transport! The only reason continues to be one of "I want to stay in my car and be able to drive wherever I choose"

DaSchmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123368927#Comment_123368927

Thanks for responding - if you live nearby what about the proposal do you like or are you neutral about it? I think the idea of a bus lane down the Wicklow bit of the N11 is a great one in principle, just the idea of closing one of the very few ways into a very congested town in the process I disagree with. I get the "greater good" angle but also a load of cars filled with people who for various reasons need to drive, sitting in even worse traffic for longer than they would have been is not the "eco win" some might imagine.

Plastik

I understand why people, in the main those living on the Herbert Rd, are not fans of the proposal. But in the round I feel that addressing the issues of chronic traffic congestion on the N11 should be of a higher priority. We are not getting a Luas extension for many years, if ever. We won't see Bray-Greystones train double tracked in our lifetime, if ever. There is no safe active-travel route from north of Bray to south of Bray.

The HR junction, even in its current form, isn't suitable as a junction joining a primary national route with the volume of traffic that the N11 has. The off ramp is too short and too narrow, there is no space for active travel not to mind anything else. I regularly pass it on bicycle and have had numerous interactions with motorists for "being in their way". And the junction in its current form actually contributes to issues at junction 7 because there are motorists using it as a rat-run, heading south from the HR junction to junction 7 before looping back around to go north again.

Most of the arguments that I've heard against closing the HR junction look at the decision in complete isolation and give no weighting to the significant free-flow upgrade of junction 7 that is planned in parallel which is designed to reduce the backlogs there. There is an amount of people simply getting one sided arguments from Facebook groups and the likes of Brady and others who are either ignorant of the full proposal, or are deliberately pedaling half-truths to suit their own agenda.

I agree that access to the town is limited at the moment. It's unfortunately constrained by topography. I would like to have seen a proposal (I'm sure it's buried in the assessment somewhere) that maintained access by linking the HR junction up with the end of Dargle Lane and the access that they plan on extending to that from junction 6, but it must not be feasible.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123369112#Comment_123369112

Your anti car attitude shines thru every one of your posts.Most people south of Jct 7 prefer to drive.Look at the emptyness of the 131 buses apart from schoolies going home or sometimes the 4-5pmers out of Busaras

spillit67

The Herbert Road junction is dangerous and shouldn’t be allowed.

I don’t think Bray needs 4 exits. It does need to completely redesign all of the main exits though and dramatically improve the PT.

Bus Connects improvements cannot come soon enough but already the Judicial Reviews are swirling.

This is where local politicians completely fail in showing leadership time and time again.

beachhead

Dangerous?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It's an exit not a rinky dink roundabout

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123370833#Comment_123370833

Your anti car attitude shines thru every one of your posts.

I'm not anti-car. However, in the context of this thread, it appears that the options are to either prioritise public transport on the N11 or to not prioritise it because some people in Bray might be inconvenienced. I'm opting to prioritise public transport.

Most people south of Jct 7 prefer to drive.

You've surveyed them all? Could you share the results of that survey?

Look at the emptyness of the 131 buses apart from schoolies going home or sometimes the 4-5pmers out of Busaras

So you're admitting that the existing bus service is not attractive. Why is it not attractive? What would make it better?

beachhead

There is no need to put a bus lane on M11 at all or at any section.Most people use a car and want to continue using cars.

I am not admitting any such thing about the buses being unattractive. They are simply not required.

I will say that 1 per hour until all hours is too much.It would definitely be a productive move if allowed to pick up passengers from Ballywaltrim or Loughlinstown hospital into Dublin City centre at Dublin bus owned stops and the same southbound.

One stupidity I remember from the past with Bus Eireann was/is that you could not book online a Wicklow bus to board at Loughlinstown to Wicklow.You had to go to Busaras.I stopped using BE then.

Does it continue? You must know.I could not be arsed looking anymore

Are you an ex green machine from Bray.TD or member?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123372055#Comment_123372055

You keep claiming that people want to continue to drive yet provide absolutely no evidence to back up your claims.

You want the junction kept open but so far you have not been able to provide one viable reason for doing so.

All the research shows that if people have the option of reliable and efficient public transport, they will use it but you know for a fact that the commuters of Wicklow and Wexford want to continue having to sit in their car on congested roads along with the associated high costs of doing so 🙄

And no, I've never been a member of a political party despite your childish question!

Edit: typos

Hamsterchops

So if we take a step back from the argument and analyse the current situation.

What negative issues currently arise from the junction being operational? What is the downside of the Herbert road being open to the N11.

Now let's take in the proposal of putting in a bus lane on the N11 and the impact that might have on the current situation.

The proposal being to close off the road at the N11 junction (Kilbride Church) so that a bus timetable can be accommodated along the N11 route …..

What negative impact might the bus corridor have on traffic flow re the Herbert Road? What impact might the bus corridor have on rerouting the Herbert road traffic?

Will there be a positive aspect in Bray to the bus corridor on the N11, and if so what will it be.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123371563#Comment_123371563

Stop this boards refrain about "have you surveyed";have you spoken to god. It's too common a cop out on boards

beachhead

Well Seth Arundel.

If people want to avoid the quagmire at woodbrook to get to the southern end of bray,for instance Tesco.Tyen they will want to use Herbert road.Also,Ardmore studios would like access there.Residents of Richmond PK, Killarney PK,Millers Wood,Ardmore Pk,Old Court Rd north..........

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123374689#Comment_123374689

But you keep telling us what the people want! You're hardly making it up, are you?

beachhead

I leave that to the cosmic people,Seth

beachhead

Those who are in touch with gaia.Sound familiar?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123374699#Comment_123374699

Tell us all why that is a "quagmire"? Is it because too many people are driving along there? The do nothing approachbwill jot make things better for anyone as history has shown us time and time again.

The only solution to traffic congestionnis mass transit - more people need to get out of their cars. This is the case on the N11, on Herbert Rd, at "the quagmire at woodbrook". You can continue pretending that it's ok but you know that over time traffic will continue to get heavier. At least WCC are being realistic about traffic management even if the NINBYs in Bray, like yourself, aren't!

beachhead

You need to get off the stage and emigrate to a mass transit city.Or perhaps you would like to build a moat around bray and dimo it into the sea with the help of climate change.Then you could have an 8 lane highway-4 each way north south for bikes and buses.

The same project you are supporting f...s up Enniskerry as well