ESB Smart Meter Installation - Main Protective Conductor/Earthing Missing

buk-d

Hi All,

Had the ESB install a smart meter yesterday, my house is 20 years old. They left a letter saying that the meters "main protective conductor/earthing is missing - 16mm2 cable required". They recommend having a registered electrical contractor to check this out??

Has anyone else had this ? Is it a big issue or just an advisory thing?

Thanks in advance

Glaceon

I had something similar in a rented house I lived in. But when the REC came out, he said he'd have to break the seals to correct it, so bumped it back to ESB Networks. Nothing ever happened after that.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123252831#Comment_123252831

Just to be sure to-be-sure, pop up a photo of the meter cabinet here as I'm just wondering why they used the term "missing" as opposed to "undersized"…

buk-d

Can you open that photo ? @10-10-20

10-10-20

Hmm. Your earth-neutral bond must be elsewhere, such as in the consumer unit. One of the REC's on here might tell us better, but that looks to be an issue alright! It should look roughly like this with the earth wire in this photo but without the two boxes on the right of the image…

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857542/#Comment_121857542

(why aren't links working for me?)

buk-d

@10-10-20 this is my old meter set up, there doesn't appear to be an earth there either? Is it only an issue now since building regs have changed?

I also can see where the earth rod is...outside the back door where fuse box is in the utility room

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253242#Comment_123253242

Yes, so you appear to have it, it's just a question as to whether it's supposed to be reinstated at the meter box as opposed to at the CU. That's what I'm hoping that somebody in the know will tell us on here. 👍️

JL spark

this is a lethal situation, no protective conductor ,

You need to contact a registered electrician ASAP

buk-d

@JL spark but why would they do the instal if it was going to alter the safety of the setup and leave me with a lethal situation as you say?

Or was it always a lethal situation even with the old meter ?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254124#Comment_123254124

Can I ask, how would it have been energised by the ESB in the first place without an earth and would it have been compliant at the time given that there appears to be an earth rod near the door and presumably attached at the CU?

Mississippi.

Do some parts of the country still operate on a TT system?

Is DB on a 100mA rcd maybe?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123253242#Comment_123253242

Is this house part of an estate or is it a one-off or smaller development?

buk-d

@10-10-20 its a house on its own site

JL spark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254165#Comment_123254165

because they are not responsible for anything after the meter , It’s down to you to sort out ,

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254248#Comment_123254248

Even the E-N bond at the meter (or where-ever it is in this case)?

buk-d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254248#Comment_123254248

I totally get that and understand its for me to sort out but I don't understand why they would alter a set up that was apparently "safe" (as my old meter would have been read countless times and no issue ever highlighted to me).... to a set up thats now not safe ?

Would it not be safer to highlight it and let me sort it before the new meter is installed and I'm left exposed?

JL spark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254274#Comment_123254274

the meter reader is not a electrician , YOU need to sort this out

buk-d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254322#Comment_123254322

Again totally understand its not their remit to sort.

So has it been unsafe for 20 years then even with the old meter ?

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254525#Comment_123254525

yes it has been unsafe for 20 years

As jlsparks says you need a rec to resolve this for you

meercat

looking closely at your photos I think it may be connected at your cutout.(

post a closer photo if you can).it’s still worthwhile getting a rec to check it out and do an earth loop resistance test.

buk-d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123254879#Comment_123254879

I will get a closer picture tomorrow.

Would this have something to do with updated building regs implemented in 2017 ?

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123255789#Comment_123255789

possibly but the notice you received says it’s missing

Lenar3556

It has nothing got to do with building regulations, and the situation is unchanged by the installation of the smart meter. ESB are just notifying you of what they have seen as a courtesy.

The main earth should be neutralised at the cutout - the photo isn’t clear enough to see if it is present or connected, but the ESB contractor who was there seems to believe it’s not.

It needs to be checked, the houses earthing system will not function correctly without it and there is an increased risk of electric shock or fire in the event of a fault.

buk-d

@meercat @Lenar3556

Here is a better and closer photo. In the mean time I have asked an electrician and they said no panic in getting it done as they said I am earthed at my fuse box (earth rod located under green cap outside the back door).

The way I understood him is that my current set up is safe but the standards would have developed and now its normal practice for the meter to be earthed as well. They said my setup is typical of what you would see in other countries.

Nonetheless I Will probably get it double checked and follow the line back to the fuse box to make sure its earthed at that rod

meercat

still not clear enough

That cable should have 3 cores(marked with red)

one of the cores,the earth should be connected into the four holes (marked yellow)

I see there’s an e marked on the cutout

send more photos closeup

meercat

there’s should be a cable between the blue and brown wires(possibly bare copper as it’s an earth)

This cable connects into the terminal marked e

meercat

like this

buk-d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264976#Comment_123264976

Yes, where you have circled, there is the stuff of a third wire there

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123264830#Comment_123264830

The problem with relying on an earth rod is that it may have a very high resistance to earth, which would make it ineffective in the absence of leakage detection.

The resolution may be as simple as connecting that earth cable to the cutout, but the thing needs to be checked to establish what is going on.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123265437#Comment_123265437

Exactly. The earth fault loop impedance would be very high due to the lack of neutralization. This would most likely increase the disconnection time way beyond permitted thresholds. Single earth electrode resistance to the general mass of earth would typically be in the range of 150 to 200 Ohms.

Antenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123284256#Comment_123284256

Is this installation intentionally a TT system? They (TT) are regarded as 'safe' if EVERYTHING is protected by RCDs.

I have read of recording studios etc having a TT system to lessen/avoid background mains hum on sensitive audio systems ….