Irish birth rate falls below 1.4 - far below replacement level

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123216933#Comment_123216933

No. You couldn't be more wrong.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123216797#Comment_123216797

What larger cash savings and larger deposits actually mean is even more inflated sales prices and not lower mortgages and shorter terms

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123216952#Comment_123216952

there are a few 'new to the parish' cultures that are growing in numbers in Ireland today and perhaps that label should be pinned where it really belongs.

I have no idea what this means, please explain?

Edit: Forgot to add, there has been no (zero) increase in Children's Allowance in near fifteen years.

There was multiple double child benefits given by the last government as well as increasing the age of those entitled to it.

User567363

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058398348/irish-birth-rate-falls-below-1-4-far-below-replacement-level

Having a baby is meant to be like being kicked in the nuts...

So you literally think people need to be presuaded to let people kick them in the nuts more often

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217662#Comment_123217662

Inflated prices is being driven by numerous factors, mainly supply. Cost of labour and then ability to scale.

But as any builder will tell which rarely gets publicised, another factor that is driving up prices is specification.

People want homes to a spec beyond building regs. This comes at a premium.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217691#Comment_123217691

More second hand than new homes were sold last year. How did cost of labour and specification affect those? Also, spec on new houses has increased, however it is not commensurate with the increased price. The reality is that across the material suppliers and associated functions in the construction industry, cost have risen to meet what the market will bare to pay. This is a well established economic outcome where once there is a perception that there will be an increased revenue at the end user, all levels within the supply chain will increase costs to "share" in that increased revenue.

All the help to buy and other schemes that improved people ability to raise a deposit went straight onto sales price and in the case of new houses was absorbed into the supply chain.

What is missing from the market is a supply of at cost housing either in the social housing or rental markets. And when it does happen its managed and delivered by the private sector whose vested interest is in maximising the cost to justify the sales price on for profit housing. What we need as a large scale housing agency delivering social and rental accommodation with the management of those projects being outside the construction industry.

We also need to move away from our established methos of construction which are very labour intensive compared to other countries.

baxterooneydoody

The birthrate will continue to fall as long as we make it harder for the working people to have kids, the fact you need 2 working to get a mortgage is a massive hindrance to people planning to have kids, make housing affordable to people who work and pay taxes early on in life and we could see a boost in young couples having more than 2 kids

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217714#Comment_123217714

More second hand than new homes were sold last year.

Far more new builds commenced.

We also need to move away from our established methos of construction which are very labour intensive compared to other countries.

Great point. That takes huge investment though. Which goes back to my point of inability to scale.

PokeHerKing

Culture and tradition is extremely broad imo. I saw a piece on RTE the other day about a Ukrainian kid who's living in a gaelteacht area since arriving here 2 years ago and is now fluent in Irish.

Which is amazing, I'm living here all my life and do not speak fluently.

But anyone claiming the above is the norm is definitely biased. It's absolutely not the norm.

The norm is what humans do as a species throughouthistory, the Irish did it in the UK/USA etc. It's to seek out your own, it's to carry on your own cultural traditions.

This is already happening here en mass. Mosques, burkas etc being the most publicly visual examples. But it's not just religion. It's foods, music, stories etc.

If we look at the UK we can see our future. Towns where there are no indigenous people left.

If you're a self loathing Irish person, of which we have many then this is not an issue.

For Irish people who take pride in themselves it's definitely something that doesn't sit right.

Idbatterim

The country is awash with money, maybe focus on encouraging workers to have kids and not the wasters ....

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217796#Comment_123217796

Exactly,the eastern Europeans have families alot earlier too, for some reason in Ireland people start having children these days in late 30s.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217819#Comment_123217819

For some reason

It's mainly because the average age of a home buyer now is 39, it's quite simple.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/04/04/typical-income-for-irish-house-buyers-rises-by-nearly-50-in-a-decade-to-71300/

If you don't own a home, you're renting, living in shared accommodation, living at home with parents, why would you be planning on starting a family when you don't have suitable accommodation to house your new family.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217796#Comment_123217796

Have you any suggestions on how to "encourage workers to have kids"?

Idbatterim

Yeah, lower taxes on marginal rate of tax, cost of living, housing costs, childcare... or emigrate to somewhere, where having a kid, is easier...

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217903#Comment_123217903

Having children at 40,jesus.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217958#Comment_123217958

What is wrong at having children at 40?

The median age of maternity in the 1950s was 31.7. With a far lower life expectancy than today.

First time mothers from the last available statistic was 31.5.

For all mothers its 33.2

The decrease really only happened for 2 decades, the 60s and 70s, since the 80s it has been steadily rising.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123217903#Comment_123217903

Apart from tax the rest are just meaningless words and phrases.

I've asked for ways to encourage workers to have children and you've said "cost of living, childcare or emigrate to somewhere" how do any of these encourage workers to have more children?

ancapailldorcha

I feel like if this was a real problem, people wouldn't keep segueing into the usual anti-immigration rhetoric. I think this is being blown out of all proportion honestly.

megaten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058398348/irish-birth-rate-falls-below-1-4-far-below-replacement-level

We'll leave it up to you OP

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218053#Comment_123218053

Greater probability that younger children will need to be carers earlier, greater risk of fetal abnormalities, greater risk of miscarriage,, quality of life being impacted

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218070#Comment_123218070

Stop making housing an attractive investment for investment funds for a start.

Control migration into the country. Make it more attractive for skilled migration and less so for non skilled.

BrokenArrows

Higher percentage of "successful" couples who are not struggling financially.

Couples who want to raise a family while maintaining a decent standard of living. Harder to get a house, especially in a good area, near to good schools etc etc
Higher education results in conscious forward planning means they see the outcome if they have kids and cant afford them so they postpone it until they are more stable which means people dont get to that point until their 30+.

2 kids starting at 30 means problems conceiving start to happen so its harder for the 3rd and 4th kid. Thats even if they wanted more than two kids in the first place. A lot will stop at 2 because of the financial drain of kids.

You also have the introduction of a socially acceptable policy of couples simply deciding that they dont want kids.

Then on the other end of the spectrum you have less educated couples who tend to have poor financial decision making who are already struggling financially and just churn out as many kids as possible. They never experienced a high financial standard of living so another kid + child allowance means in some cases they have more disposable income. Its less of a financial impact on them.

As the majority of the irish population moved from the low education to the high education brackets we naturally lowered the child output.

Its the same story across all the developed nations of the world.

BrokenArrows

Personally i think financially successful couples need to be given a tax break if they have kids.
Child allowance should be set as a percentage of your income (up to a reasonable maximum), or a minimum value if you are unemployed.

The current child allowance is about 7% of a full time workers minimum wage. Someone earning 100k a year might be more encouraged to have a kid and go back to work if it meant they would get 7k in child benefit. That money would easily be repaid to the government through the high earners income tax.

Steviemak7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123215870#Comment_123215870

Of the millions that have come into the country over the last few decades almost all have been legally from the EU, UK, etc or through work visas from India, Philipines etc

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218213#Comment_123218213

So you would give the higher earners more money to have children?

Why?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218278#Comment_123218278

Who would pay for the tax break as well?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218118#Comment_123218118

There is risks in everything.

That isn't a good enough reason not do something do.

kowloon

To whoever's the last alive before we all die out: Switch off the immersion.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218305#Comment_123218305

We're not talking about general risks, we're talking about specific risks.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218350#Comment_123218350

The majority of pregnancies at 40 don't have specific or general risks.

I don't think you should have a problem with, it really is no ones business and if we start to discourage it with scaremongering we will have a bigger problem.

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123218394#Comment_123218394

Yes they do, the numbers are there to see,. Should be encouraging to have children younger, not older. My opinion