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New Irish Housing Starts - Way Below Target *Read OP for Mod Warning*

  • 03-02-2025 2:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,971 ✭✭✭✭


    https://www.independent.ie/business/fewer-than-30000-houses-were-built-last-year/a74798677.html

    Giving the Béal na Bláth oration in Cork last August, the then Taoiseach Simon Harris said: “This year, we will exceed our housing targets with almost 40,000 homes built.”

    Claim from Simon Harris a few months ago

    Fewer than 30,000 houses were built in Ireland last year, according to new figures from Construction Information Services (CIS). It says just 29,136 residential units were completed, with a particular fall in the border regions.

    The reality.

    Housing demand continues to vastly outpace supply. Is it a case that the government are unable to get to grips with the housing crisis, or is it that they are unwilling? There are a lot of vested interests in this country who would have their feathers ruffled if house price demand/inflation was brought under control.

    Mod: There is already a thread to discuss immigration, so don't bring it up in this thread. I have deleted two posts already. Warnings will have to follow if this is not adhered to, thanks.

    Post edited by Necro on


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭j62


    Its not just hard to get builders and prices of materials is high but I know of cases where locals can’t even get planning permission in first place

    The whole system from government to local councils to quangos to investment to utilities are hostile to new homes in a country with highest population growth rate in Europe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    our approach to housing in order to try meet our housing needs has in fact collapsed, but our policy makers will never accept this reality, buy will continue to use the same approaches and tools to try do so, and again, it wont work….

    ….this problem will continue into the next decade, and will very likely be much worse by then…

    …..c'est la vie

    …oh, and this is what we voted for!

    …yes, we, the electorate is also playing a part in all of this!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,156 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    In a country with a population of just over 5 million, 40,000 houses sounds like a pathetic target, honestly. Crowing about exceeding it is even more so.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,731 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    How about people stop objecting to new housing in their areas OP, like SF representatives for example?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    not only has the opposition been objecting, but so to have ffg supporters, this is across the board, nobody wants anything built near them….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,794 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    They lied about the 40,000 for votes. Simple as that. In their stupidity they also promised 60k a year going forward. With zero detail on how to achieve that.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Which party would have delivered more than the 30k built last year?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    New Irish housing starts are in fact above target, at over 60k last year.

    It is completions which are below target. Unfortunately I have limited faith in anyone to solve this issue as it will require a fundamental change in what and where we build.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    probably none, nobody truly knows what to do now as this problem as been left fester for decades, again, the overall approach has collapsed, but this isnt gonna change anytime soon, not until well into the 30's, or maybe even the 40's……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Will be interesting to see how the number of starts converts to completions this year, but it looks likely that the 41k target will be reached for 2025.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I think we will see the 41k reached this year, but we then need to move past the 50k from next year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …and again, i think this wont happen, even though you maybe right, i some how seriously doubt it, again, my own suspicions will be that output will stall at about 35-40k a year for the remainder of the decade, hopefully im wrong though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭Randycove


    In the year ending April 2024, the population grew by 98,000 and yet despite a housing crisis, only 30,000 houses were built. so basically, the housing shortage is increasing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,661 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    a tad over 3 people per house. Sounds about right to me.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ….plus a deficit of maybe 250,000 units as it stands, our supply is way way off…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭Randycove


    except the average is 2.74. Even at 3 it still isn’t starting to tackle those in temporary accommodation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Non of them, they are all wasters. Lads at this stage, even the 40,000 is likely more than they will deliver. Given they are only prepared to play around the edges. Aside from the labour shortage. Where in gods name, is the land, in Dublin to house this amount of people, for the next ten to fifteen years for example. It isnt there. Short of relocating the port and rezonig and quickly moving the very old business parks, beside rail connections etc, it is fantasy stuff. The light industry , factories etc is stuff they have in their long term plans, they may well have to speed things up. The figures that they plucked out of thin air, are beyond comedy! Might aswell say they are going to magic up 100,000 units a year…

    Also bear this in mind. If you are staying in power, your own personal asset is going up, they are all homeowners here (many also landlords) in the Dail, at county council and ABP level… What incentive if you are a morally corrupt scumbag and that is what they are. Why change the system, thats actually working great for you?

    Also, "who would have done better"? What are you inferring, that we should be delighted with the failure on housing? Likely non of them, thats the matter of fact. But its a total and utter failure and disgrace…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Adamstown was built as a new town back 20 years ago and yet it only has a population of 10k.

    Yet when I go past it on the train it is surrounded by a large amount of scrub land that is empty, which could easily host more housing. Why the hell when Adamstown was being built didn't they have a bit more long term thinking and build it to be capable of hosting a population of well over 50k at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,056 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    As someone said above, this is what the country voted for. More failed targets.

    We know by the end of this current government, the housing crisis is more than likely going to be worse than it actually is now. But guess who will get voted in again.......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Ehhhh, I wouldn't bank on it... I mean it's very plausible, but if things actually get significantly worse , it will be interesting to see. Purchasing power is declining significantly... affordability is getting far worse, that is for sure ..



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 54,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Mod: There is already a thread to discuss immigration, so don't bring it up in this thread. I have deleted two posts already. Warnings will have to follow if this is not adhered to, thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭Papagei


    You may also find this unbelievable, Ireland is building more houses per capita than any other country in Europe. Possibly the world but reliable and comparable data is patchy in many countries globally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Irish housing completions are going backwards! Not only did we miss our targets but now we are building less than 23 and 22.

    It's a complete failure on government and nothing looks to change in the coming years. They will not come close to 41k this year - more spin and bluster from our resident spin doctor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Government should be trying to come up with quick cheap housing , like factory built tiny homes to help with the crisis ,this could at least move some younger renters (if there are any at this stage) and maybe retired people out of more traditional housing and free up some units for family's or people who want to start a family.

    This could be outsourced abroad (seeing as we don't appear to have capacity to build in this country).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    And yet you voted for them to return to Government only 2 months ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,178 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I don't think any politician truly wants to drive down rents and house prices.

    That is the first problem.

    What we need is for the Cabinet to collectively state:

    "house prices and rents are too high, and public policy is to boost supply to cause rents and house prices to fall"

    But that won't happen.

    And so the crisis will never be solved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭Randycove


    they actually want house prices to go up. This will reduce the amount of bd debt in the banks and ease the pressure on them from the ECB.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The bad debts are due to non-payment of loans, the value of property under those loans is irrelevant because repossession is almost impossible in this country.

    The pillar banks in this country are under no pressure, they are in a healthy state and making huge profits once again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    What are you suggesting? that I shouldnt have voted? that there were better alternatives? they are all an insult to this nation. Do you suggest them lying about the figures was right? Typical you want to point the finger here , at me. So tell me, what I should have done.. I knew the figures were off, but nobody could have anticipated, this level of failure, even by irish standards, its a joke…

    The CIF put last years units completed, at marginally over 29,000 LOL!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    You say you don't trust them to improve it and that they're all liars. By giving them your vote you've approved them as a government. If you wanted change you don't vote for the same parties.

    We've discussed this previously, it was known since the middle of last year that completions weren't going to be achieved regardless of what they said. It was easy to see what the end of year projections were going to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Ok. where do you reckon completions will be at this year… We can see next year, I reckon 33,000 ish give or take 5 percent…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    It's hard to say until we get accurate q1 completions and commencement figures but I'd say that 33k isn't a bad estimate.

    It's what you voted for, so you can't really complain too much. If you wanted a change you should have voted for change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Gary, we are talking about Irish politics here , I believe the easter bunny, santa claus and tooth fairy, will show up to my front door in five minutes, before I believe any of those me feiner, career politicians, gombeen fools will ever change anything here… Until the day a competent party forms and gains some foothold, the place is going to stay the farce that it is…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    Then why get involved in the voting process if you hate them all? What you did was give the previous government your approval. As I said if you want change, you vote for change, you voted for the status quo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,181 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Has anyone walked into a building site in the last few years.

    Young kids these days are going to college and our young tradespeople are moving abroad over the housing crisis.

    This is going to get worse year on year unless they can get people back home, because building sites are mostly full of people in their fortys, fifties and sixties who will be retiring year on year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭Randycove


    do they no longer have to hold higher levels of capital in reserve? I thought that was why Ulsterbank left the Irish market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Who could the poster have voted for, in order to deliver more than the circa 40k homes that will be built this year, or the 33k built last year?

    Remember that over the 2023/2024 total period, the govt did meet their housing targets.

    Dont get me wrong, we need more homes & quickly; but we can only vote for the parties in front of us.

    None of the parties are suddenly going to build 100k homes per year from 2025 onwards.

    The only relevant question is, Who will build the most homes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Mainly, because I want to see them commit to and start, the major infrastructure projects, that the country so badly needs. After that, once they are started, of course I am happy to vote them out. I also thought, ok, the opposition are also appalling, one last shot… Lets see where the stats go… My question was answered, barely after the election. A total disgrace. Like an irish times article I read last week that i agree with. Many people may have given them the benefit of the doubt, one last time. Immediately we find out, completions are and will be horrendous. Affordability is getting far worse. Run that election again now, after that farce, the farce with Lowry and the independents etc and FFG would be in a worse place, that is for sure… Any way, lets see what happens next election, we now know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the housing crisis is going to get far worse. That alone, without even going into the gangsters propping them up and god knows what scandal. Ill be shocked if they last the full term… Come the next election, be it in five weeks or five years, people who were on the fence, are out of patience…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,424 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    No young person in their right mind would stay here, the pay in construction is unbelievably low compared to Aus, the us and Canada. Also you can earn far more there, before you pay the top rate of tax, in the US, I think you can earn 300,000 USD before paying the max rate, here is is 44,000 euro and the currencies are nearly at parity! LOL!

    Build the houses young ones, you can enjoy **** salaries and live at home with your folks… Do you national service… LOL!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    But we had already known for the last couple of years as the housing crisis was deteriorating.
    As I keep having to say it was evident after the end of Q2 last year the level of completions wouldn’t be what was promised. It was in the public domain for anyone to see.
    Announcing figures for the year end which we knew we’d be hitting and now suddenly you want the Government out that you helped to re-elect? If you didn’t see it or worse ignored it and voted them back in only to want another GE immediately, tonight it’s not happening because you and many others like you gave this consistently failing government a mandate for another 5 years.

    You’re coming across as a spoiled child. You voted for them but now you’ve changed your mind a few months later. Maybe next election, put a bit more thought into your vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    This poster in particular seems to hate the government across multiple threads, which I completely understand. But they chose to vote them back in again and the complain that they’re not fit to govern. They want another election.

    They want change but voted for the status quo and is now complaining further about the government they voted for. It’s nonsensical.

    If they believe that no one is good, why vote for anyone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    The problem is that simply building more houses will merely result in stimulating population growth. There have been many articles where employers have said that lack of affordable housing is slowing down their ability to recruit from abroad. Enterprise Ireland have said this too. Therefore just building more houses will not result in greater affordability or availability.

    That is not saying we don't need to build more houses but rather it must be balanced with a reduction in population growth if things are to improve for the average buyer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,829 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Indo pumping the property porn again.

    Maybe we should go back to 110% mortgages and get rid of borrowing rules for builders.

    It's time again we all party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    the answer unfortunately is not straightforward. Disfunctional planning; labour shortages (youngsters these days often don’t want hard physical work and tough working conditions attached to construction); building methods have not sufficiently evolved to help meet demand; relatively small size of construction firms here; building standards have gone rapidly from ‘shoebox’ to top of the class (this costs money, time, and more construction inputs); financing for development has become harder to get (remember lessons from the crash). Throw in high input costs; meddling from the state; uncertainty from the political system; massive expectations in terms of fit out and finish vs EU norms…..

    Take your pick … these issues are well documented. What we do have a system that seems incapable of addressing these issues despite public money literally being thrown at the problem. IMHO talk of social housing in the 1930s ignores the fact that many of these issues were not on the radar back then, in fact progress has in some ways has negatively exacerbated the environment in which home construction operates … This is not unique to Ireland, most advanced economies suffer similar problems to varying degrees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Because the crash.

    Adamstown was Celtic Tiger era house building.

    But when the crash came the developers ran out of money, the banks ran out of money, the government put in much stricter lending rules and it all stopped.

    All that scrub land was all in the plan before 2008.

    In the estate I live in they have started building about 40 or so new houses, private houses with the mandatory whatever % social as per section whatever.

    These were originally planned as phase 2 of the estate way back 17 or 18 years ago.

    But it's only getting built now.

    They never got built because of the crash and it's only now after the land changing hands numerous times that a developer is willing to take the risk and build.

    It's the same with Adamstown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    They more than make up for that by offering very low interest on deposits. The capital reserve requirements were only a problem when ECB rates were 0.

    Now it inadvertently works in their favour - they are full of cash and making record profit



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,056 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    This was all said BEFORE the last election too, yet most voted not to change a thing.

    There is a large cohort that is happy with their lot in life. You tend to find they will be those in their 40s upwards, who managed to buy a house at a relatively affordable price and are now sitting on a pretty nest egg. For them the country is going great, why would they vote for change?

    But i have no doubt that if we get 4 years of government scandal, missed targets in health, housing, waste etc, then FFG will still be the most votes, cos that's just the way the country works. People are afraid to try something different.

    This election was the change to have a punt on a new idea. Sure if they made a hames of it, vote them back out in 4yrs time, but no, it was a bit of "I'm alright Jack".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,269 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    People voted not to change because the opposition parties weren't offering any of those policies so people defaulted to the centre.

    No point calling for an election if the choices on offer are exactly the same. The US is finding out what happens when you vote change for changes sake.



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