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Dacia Jogger - cheap 7 seater or bad value?

2

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,273 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, I have a 10 year old Tiguan Auto, and am(was) looking at the Dacia Jogger to get seven seats.

    Obviously, comparing a €30 k new car like the Jogger would need to be rated versus a €30 k Tiguan. The Tiguan would be about 2021, so four years older. That means out of warranty, and probably diesel which brings its problems if the car is used for small local use ( which is likely for a 7 seater - a kid's taxi).

    As I said in post #49 - not for me!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There are a lot of 7 seaters. Why not a Tiguan All Space, a Touran, A Sharan. If you're just looking for 7 seats.

    But comparing a new budget car to a used expensive car originally at least twice the price. It's a bit daft for other people to be complaining a Dacia isn't premium enough. It's built to a specific price point.

    You can get a Kodiaq petrol 7 seater.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Your comment is just as funny from my point of view because Not everyone wants to be in debt on a 50 K on a car, most of which are bought on PCP now too.

    A lot of people just want cheap A to B transport, I wouldn't even spend 30 K on a car again. 50 K on a new car with all that tax going to the government, probably 20-25K ? you'd want to be mad. Even if I had 50K cash to throw away on a car right now I wouldn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭colm reilly


    That 1 ltr engine ,carrying 7 will not last long .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭Casati


    Yeah hard to argue on the tax side. To earn the 50k, I’ve to make 100k - all to get a product that probably is sold by VW by 30k net. It is madness if you aren’t buying something with low depreciation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    It's madness either way, I just wouldn't pay the huge tax bill. The Government rape us enough on income tax.

    Paying 50 K for a car to get lower depreciation is a bit nuts though.

    When people buy cars the tax bill should be clear in Euro's no % the sneaky little b1stards !

    % VRT

    % Tax

    Should be clear that the tax bill to the Government is around 20-25 K on a 50 K car, could be more, depending on VRT.

    I remember comparing the monthly payments on PCP vs HP for a 40K car, say with 10% deposit so 36K and it was around 1100 pm over 3 years vs 450 odd on PCP. If people hadn't PCP there's no way they're be mad enough paying 40+ K on cars.

    We've all heard the stories where people are ignoring the car for 15K and driving off in a new car on PCP for 40K because they can't afford the 15K car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    200 Nm torque, 148 Lb.ft isn't bad in fairness. It's not like someone is going to be rallying a jogger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    You know what ? I'm going to test drive a Jogger for the balls of it next week. The local Dacia dealer is 10 mins away.

    If Dacia had more LPG cars I probably would have got one instead of the Cee'd, but they only reintroduced LPG for the Gen III Duster but that's a start. I didn't know why LPG cars aren't more available anyway considering they're much cleaner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    You'd want to be mad to pay new price for a Tiguan, absolutely mental. VW prices were always over inflated but now they're seriously high due to domestic issues and partly due to very poor decisions the German government made to energy security hammered industry there, also poor decisions on VW's part so no way I'm going to buy German cars and pay over inflated prices for their junk.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's hard to see a top spec one pushing 60k being value.

    But as I said earlier in the thread someone has to buy them so there will be second hand ones in a few years.

    It's a bit harsh calling them junk all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    "VW / Skoda etc and want a nicer car then go ahead. For many people like me it was a choice of the Jogger with 3 year warranty etc vs 30k for a 5 year old motor and who knows what potential problems"

    The main reason many people are paying 40-60 K for cars in Ireland is due to PCP. In reality this turns out much more because they're less likely to just hand the car back at year 3 and pay the balloon to own it so they will get another pcp and continue another 3 years payments etc, madness, I did it long enough, never again.

    Older cars don't always mean less reliability , once you do your research, a 5 year old car can last many more years, I wouldn't be getting any car with a wet cam belt for example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    It doesn't matter because a over inflated price new means over inflated price 2nd hand and I wonder how widespread PCP is all over Europe and is the age of fooling people with cheap monthly prices the reason many car manufacturers are selling such expensive cars now ?

    People end up paying for a 3 year old VW what a new one should cost and remember, the higher cost of the car the higher the tax bill I don't fancy taking out a loan and paying interest to the Government for a huge tax bill on the cost of a new car.

    Either way, I wouldn't pay for any German car now considering the Political issues and VW's mistakes.

    It's probably not helped much the fact that a Green party Leader who doesn't even own a car sits on the VW Supervisory Board lol.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    In general yes if the car costs more new then higher price second hand.

    Not so much with high spec versions of ordinary cars like Tiguan.

    I don't do PCP or car loan myself it's expensive enough buying a car without buying the money as well.

    I wouldn't worry about politics when choosing a car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    @Mad_Lad you need to get over that 1 bad deal you did, you've brought the Irish and german government into your rants now along with every German car and every EV over the last while.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭BlakeS94


    I remember a video on YT think it was your man from Carwow and it couldn't even get up a hill fully loaded with people and luggage and he said he could smell burning clutch



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'd assume most most people who buy 7 seaters buy it to haul kids and babies around. Not 7 adults and boot full of sand bags.

    .. And it DID get up the hill...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭bcklschaps


    Well, I think Matt Watson and carwow could have done that test on any car and found similar results. A 1.0 petrol delivering 102bhp and 200nm torque is actually excellent. I remember a time (not that long ago either) when you would be getting half those figures from a 1.0 petrol. I drive a 12.5 year old and don't know how it would get on in that test. (probably not too well)

    It's an interesting debate about buying new versus buying 2nd hand....(the OP seems to have decided to go 2nd hand) and where you draw the line about how much you can afford to spend on transportation. As others have noted if you have the money and just want a bit of comfort and piece of mind, then absolutely, buy new.

    Personally I buy 2nd hand.... but in order for me to pick up a good 2nd hand, somebody else has to buy new



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's built to a price and a specific use case.

    Once you start comparing it to vehicles twice the price used or not , or making up fud against it. You don't really get it.

    For me there's much more space and practically in a traditional MPV with fold flat seats in the boot. Nicer place to be on long family holidays.

    The Jogger is more a pumped up 1.0 cheap car. Which as a family taxi for lighter use is fine. It's a utility vehicle not a luxury SUV.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,273 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I have bought several new cars and several 2nd hand, but always buy for cash with no trade in. Because I tend to keep the cars long term, then the car being sold is not huge money and is easy to sell privately.

    Now, VW Ireland do not sell petrol cars bigger than the Golf, so that rules out a new Irish Tiguan in petrol - and an import is the only choice. A new or nearly new UK car might be possible, but not since Brexit. The warranty is tricky because the three year is broken into two years by VW throughout the EU, but the third year is the responsibility of the selling country - so more trouble.

    Now, doing the sums, keeping a new car for 10 years cuts depreciation because a 3 year old car has lost 50% or more of its new value - and more if you add inflation of the new price. Look after the car with the recommended services, and keep the mileage down, and it is economical to do this.

    I have not tried an EV, but with much lower maintenance costs, then keeping one long term, an EV should be a better option, particularly when battery 'fixing' rather than a whole new battery becomes the norm. [One cell goes, and a whole new battery is called for!]

    Of course, replacing the 10 year old car is a bit of a financial shock, but so what.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Bollocks, there's cars that had tiny engines out there for years fully loading plodding along.

    If it had a VW badge bet he would have reported it was fine.

    He was probably trying to climb a steep hill in 5th gear.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm not sure if you're serious about replacing batteries. That's not how that happens usually. With the exception of Tesla.

    Look to Cupra or Seat for VAG petrol options in larger cars. But also there are used petrol VW options. Not many, because Ireland loves diesel. Trending opposite to the rest of Europe.

    I still thinks it's a big leap from Tiguan to Jogger. New or used is irrelevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    You need to stop talking shite, the facts are VW are grossly over priced, German cars in general due to the political decisions the German government made and the poor decisions VW have made, these are the real issues and these are actual facts and as I said having a Green politician on the advisory board probably hasn't helped VW in any way positive.

    Those that buying seriously over priced German cars are paying for the serious issues related to the German economy, this has nothing to do with my experience with VW, this is related to all German cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,842 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yup. We love our underpowered engines here. And in case people think it's a new phenomenon, we had a 1.4 petrol auto Touran years ago, horrendous engine in a lovely car. Underpowered to heck, 70 odd bhp I think. That was an early 00's car.

    There is a lot of bias against "cheap" cars in these reviews. A people carrier to move two kids to school and carry some shopping at the weekend doesnt need 200-300+bhp. It just needs to be reliable and safe.

    And that's what Dacia does well. Take old and proven renault parts and release new cars for cheap because the RND cost is already paid for. Cheap and cheerful.

    The competition for dacia often isnt a new car, it's a 2-3 year old used car from a more premium marque. But the dacia is a new car, with a good finance deal and a warranty. I have a great gra for a cheap value car that just does its job well.

    The 1.0 jogger - especially if bought as nearly new from the likes of hertz - is such good value that if you are spending sub 20k on a new car to keep for some time, you'd be mad not to consider it. Especially if you're not a car person and or have room for other project/fun cars like I do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    All I'm saying is that the German economy and VW are going through a tough time largely due to their own foolish decisions and their car prices are heavily inflated as a result and I wouldn't want to be the one paying much higher prices as a result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,187 ✭✭✭User1998


    I’m pretty sure there was a 1.6 FSI Touran 115bhp which got replaced by a 1.4 TSI 125bhp. Don’t think it ever came with a N/A 1.4?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    It's not always about what you can afford, the main deal now is that people are buying cars they can't afford on PCP just because the monthly payments are affordable because they're paying back a small % of the total cost of the car, if they can't pay for the car by cash or traditional HP to own it after the 3 years then they can't afford it, even if they were to pay off over the traditional 5 years they would probably still only be able to buy a cheaper car than they can get on PCP.

    Don't forget, there are people who can't see the justification in spending so much money on a car which is just a tool to get the family around and aren't bothered by cheaper plastics or a bit more noise or not having big screens to play with.

    There's also the Government tax bill which adds a huge amount to the cost of a car which many people couldn't justify paying especially considering how much the take in income tax.

    If PCP weren't the norm now there wouldn't be many getting in to such expensive cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    I'm going to the barbers in a while then to the local Dacia to see if they got a Jogger to let me test drive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭creedp


    We loved our small weedy engines here because road tax was engine cc based and you were screwed if you had the temerity to think you'd like to drive a decent 1.6L engine.

    I think EVs have moved the game on in terms of power/torque. There was a time when 100bhp was decent and 150bhp was borderline sports car level. I know cars have got a lot heavier but with EVs 250bhp is entry level and 350 to 400bhp the new family car target by many manufacturers. Compare that level of performance to a weedy 109bhp and its a embarassingy level of no contest.

    Do run of the mill family cars need to be that powerful? Absolutely not. The horse has bolted though and it's always difficult to reign such movement in. I remember a poster recently saying he moved to EV because a 190bhp diesel was borderline dangerously underpowered to safely join a motorway🤔. Imagine how traumatised the poor fellow would be driving the the little jogger with 7 on board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭creedp


    Don't forget Nissan whose highly trained battery specialists aren't even allowed work on batteries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,842 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Correct and well noted. It was indeed a 1.6 non turbo. 102hp from wiki. Funny how my memories of that car convinced me it was a 75hp and a 1.4. It was so underpowered, heavy car (so it burned through fuel and oil), but would struggle uphill on a steep incline.

    I know it was for CC, but it's still in the public psyche now even though we're 17 years removed from the CC tax rates. We do need to bear in mind power to weight as well as raw power numbers. One of the diesel golfs I had had 130bhp and felt a lot more nippy than some cars I've owned with 150-200% of that bhp number. For instance, my 5.2v8 dodge ram probably has double that hp number but has much less HP per tonne. Weight to power becomes even more noted with EVs, as simply they have so much additional weight compared to cars from 15-20 years ago, with not only the batteries but also the increased safety stuff over that time.

    190bhp and a diesel, if that's underpowered I'll eat many hats. Crazy stuff sometimes gets posted here.

    I actually really like the idea of both a> the jogger and b> the whole dacia thing in general. Maybe it's the 5-10 years I lived a few minutes outside cavan or somethinng but the chapeness and reliability really appeals to me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭creedp


    Agree its still in the psyche but now more in terms of low co2 and cheap tax. Will always remember the mad increase in the sales of the 520D and other heretofore massive 2L diesels when the CO2 based tax came in 2008.

    You don't really hear people talking about 1l or 1.3 L engines anymore but whether the car has cheap tax or not. Its one of the reason often quoted for buying EVs or phevs....motor tax only €120 or €150 pa, what a bargain.

    I hear you on the brilliant value the jogger represents. I have a 2017 7 seater smax brought in from UK in 2020 for €23k otr. Brilliant value really as its the titanium sport spec with leather seats, auto lights, weedy😁180bhp engine. I'll be keeping that on the road until in calves as I couldn't justify buying another (save possibly the jogger) 7 seater.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I had a couple of those 1.6 diesels (and petrols) never had a problem on hills or oil, even 7 up. The DSG was slow but not unusable like you're suggesting.

    People have got used to overpowered cars. These low powered cars are fine when driven as designed. People don't need 200bhp to pick the kids up from school.

    That said people are obnoxious these days, you often need a drag racer to get into fast moving traffic. No lets anyone out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,842 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The diesel is different, with the DSG it's on turbo more of the time. An N/A 100bhp petrol in a seven seater was underpowered.

    I do agree with you though, underpowered is fine once you know what you're driving. I had a diesel non turbo fiesta with 60 odd bhp years ago and it ran on the smell of diesel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I know someone with a jogger. Were happy enough with it. The only criticism was that that every part of it feels like a cheap car.

    Not a basic car with decent quality. Like poverty spec German cars in the 1980s. Built like tanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭creedp


    Agree 100% on your last point. There seems to be a pretty loud ROTR are only game in town brigade who consider its not up to the driver on the motorway to in any way accommodate someone trying to join a motorway. Automatic response seems to be that if the joiner races down the ramp at 120kph, in the utopian world occupied by this ROTR gang an opening will alway exist for the joiner to magically slot into. Meanwhile in the real world...........



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,842 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It's not up to those on the carriageway, absolutely not. Clearly defined in the law.

    However where possible you'll see most drivers in the leftmost lane will move out a lane if the space is free to do so. The only time I don't move out is if I'm being overtaken or someone is approaching faster in the overtaking lane. If I'm on the motorway my cruise is set so I won't be speeding up or slowing down to let someone in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭photosmart


    Have seen comment above on being able to buy a 3 year old car for 50% of its initial cost - this is a figure

    that is bandied about on the internet and while it may be somewhat true in other markets it absolutely isn't in Ireland

    unless for some car with absolutely horrid depreciation. Hence the idea of value in a cheaper new car vs

    overpriced second hand models. To get a Kodiaq for Jogger money you would have to go back to 2019/2020.

    Example 1

    The cheapest 2022 octavia on carsireland is 23950, new they are about 35k so nowhere near 17500 (50%)

    Example 2

    C3

    2022 15900 (not 12k)

    2025 24000

    Example 3

    Kodiaq

    2020 31k

    2022 38k (not 27k)

    2025 53k new



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The 1.4 you were complaining about was a turbo. The 1.6 petrol which I had for years I never found underpowered. I was hardly going to be on the ragged edge with a car full of kids and grand parents half of which get car sick over 4000rpnm.

    We still have golf with the 1.6 and ironically a sports suspension. It's now the spare learner car in the family (manual). Lovely handling car, but not quick. At the same time never find it struggling to get to up a hill. Rock solid at 120 on a motorway. That said even jumping into it from an EV I've never thought it's so slow to be un-driveable.

    My old GTI only had 110bhp. I'm not seeing the need to have 300bhp to crawl around the city at 30-50 kmph. That said I have upgraded older cars that couldn't keep up safely with modem 120+kmph motorway traffic.

    I doubt anyone is going to buy a Dacia jogger for high speed weekend trips to Monaco to the yacht or skiing with 7 adults.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,842 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    My point → .

    You →

    😅

    Sorry for the flagrant comment but I really feel like we're actually on the same side of the discussion. On one hand, My touran felt asthmatic with the foot down depending on conditions. But that is because we came from a diesel TDI golf to it, and they are chalk and cheese cars. But I for sure noticed both the bad MPG and oil consumption, as well as I for sure adapted my driving to the slower takeup in speed of the touran vs the likes of my diesel golf, diesel skoda superb etc that we had at the time. That touran was a lovely car spec wise though, leather seats, heated seats and (AFAIR) steering wheel, auto, AC, etc etc.

    Now. All that being said. Horses for courses and I think the touran I had was perfect for what it is. It fulfilled the same use case as the jogger does now. But the differeence is instead of a used touran for the same money I would be able to buy a new jogger. And, were the option available then, that's probably what I would have bought. For less cost all told as well as presence of manufacturer warranty.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think your being a bit hard, on lower powered cars. It's not impossible you had one that wasn't at it's best. I remember test driving old GTI before I bought mine all the same engine but some were far more poke then others.

    Theres was also a 1.2 tsi and I think maybe even the 1.0 tsi. But you have to look at the torque and bhp.

    Only car we had which was genuinely slow was a 1.3 CDTI astra. Had a tiny powerband on turbo and power fell off a cliff either side of it. I kinda enjoyed the challenge of driving it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,587 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    The ROTR is not the issue. Drivers already on the motorway need to adhere to the speed limit and 2 second rule as per the ROTR. That's a 66 metre gap @ 120 km/h while the average car is 4-6 metres long. So there's generally no need for more accommodation - unless the merger is driving something very slow and/or large like an artic or 45 bhp Dacia Spring

    There is fault on both sides when it comes to merging conflicts but more so on the part of mergers IME. Many will not bother accelerating enough, don't check their mirrors and blindspots and will try to barge in. This could be why idiots think that 190 bhp isn't enough to merge safely. Maybe he thinks his big scary sounding diesel engine will explode if he revs it past 2000 rpm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    No Joggers available for test drive, the only one there was sold, the salesman said they can't keep them in stock, whether that's a supply issue or not I didn't ask. They have my name down for a test drive, so hopefully in a week or two I'll get a spin.

    Looking at the Sandero, Duster interiors, I'd have no problem using these as my daily cars and I love the simplicity of the base models, it's just a bit mad they didn't put in dedicated radio controls or screen just for the radio, just something basic.

    I didn't mind the jogger interior either when I sat in the Brothers rental.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    I'm driving a 1.0l 3cyl 120 Hp now in the Cee'd and it it more than adequate for a daily run-a-bout family car.

    The Cee'd has 172 Nm torque and the Jogger 1.0L has 200Nm so I'm assuming it will be just as adequate even with a few passengers and crap in the boot.

    The only thing I don't like is the turbo lag in these engines, when I was looking for a car for my Sister, I test drove a 1.4L Opel Corsa and it was much nicer to drive, 4 cyl and no turbo lag. Granted while it may have been only 90? Hp it just felt better, it probably would have run out of steam earlier at higher speeds though.

    Anyway, with speed limits coming down this year in more places there's no point having faster cars which risk getting points.

    I remember driving the MK I Caddy 1.9 NA diesel and with a roof rack and ladders would hardly get beyond 60 Mph and it took a fair while to get to 60. Climbing the Wicklow hills regularly in it was fun, as the saying goes, better driving a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I then remember getting into the 90 Hp TDI Caddy and it felt like a rocket, that was a great engine, code ALH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    I drove the 1.3 CTDI in the Combo van, it wasn't bad to be honest, it was 75 Hp, it was very economical in the van , probably even better in the Astra and Corsa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭Luna84
    Mentally Insane User


    102bhp and 200nm torque

    The 1 litre in the jogger is actually 110bhp.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭creedp


    Agree its not written in law but I like to drive with due consideration for others. If I see a car coming down a ramp with no gaps in traffic I'll check rear view mirror and if safe ease off slightly to create a bigger gap in front of me.

    Otherwise how is someone able to join a motorway safely in heavy traffic without having to slow up on ramp, which creates its own potential problems. I'm not having a go at you btw but what really grinds my gears is reading posts saying people should accelerate down the entry ramp and magically join the motorway irrespective of how heavy the traffic is

    Sometimes reality does not match utopian fantasy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭creedp


    But if the driver behind is rigidity sticking to this magic gap they will have to ease off to accommodate the car joining in front of them unless I'm missing something



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭photosmart


    Interesting that there seem to be few new Joggers. If they were that popular I think the

    second hand values would be holding up better. 2022 Joggers with average mileage are around 18k for mid spec, this is 10k

    depreciation over 3 years which is a lot given its from a low base. Also it means that trade in values are probably poor (say 2 - 3k less than they are being sold at)

    I haven't traded mine so I don't know what the exact figures are but they seem to depreciate faster than the Dusters and Sandero etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think it's quite niche for a variety of reasons



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,242 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    "I wouldn't worry about politics when choosing a car."

    I don't either except when it directly relates to grossly over priced cars, I'm not going to be the one paying for other countries poor political decisions and paying tax on it.



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