2025 F1 General Discussion Thread

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302103#Comment_123302103

Best call them Visa Cash App Racing Bulls. VCARB isn't even a word.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302404#Comment_123302404

From what I was reading, Max was against the idea of getting rid of Lawson.

All this stuff is definitely making me look forward to the next race even more. It's great drama for F1.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302404#Comment_123302404

I disagree about max being cowardly about having a top driver. I reckon he really couldn't care less who's in second seat. His dad on the other hand...

Appletart Upsetter

l think any criticism of Max is misplaced.

I keep going back to Michael Schumacher, Max has the ability to drive around all the instabilities of the car. Which actually makes him terrible at developing a balanced car. When you follow your best drivers feedback, which is completely normal, then you end up in this cul de sac for his team mates.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302437#Comment_123302437

Fine. Between them, there are no top drivers allowed in the other. Nobody to challenge max's supremacy in the team. I don't mean just on track, I mean in the team. It's Max's team and he has the car he wants. It isn't even particularly fast but the second car is undrivable to other drivers.

The team on the other hand have become a one car team with a second car just making up the numbers.

The one person who is happy about the situation except the Verstappens is Perez. He was always a decent average to above average driver. And he struggled to get the car out of Q1 because the car was developed away from him ad towards whatever Max wanted.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302440#Comment_123302440

Yeah Schumacher was credited with helping to develop a fast car, not just a car that only he could drive. The red bull isn't even particularly fast with Max driving it so I don't know that we can credit him with great development skills, just complete control over the direction of the development

Jacovs

Looking at last season's results, it looks like around just after the Miami race, when Norris got his first win and it became clear McLaren had caught up to (overtaken?) RedBull, that they maybe started pushing the car more in a direction to suit Verstappen and keep him happy and in the running for the Driver's Championship, at the cost of their 2nd car.

Up to that point Checo was running, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Then after Miami it dropped off to 8th, DNF, DNF, 8th, 7th, 17th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 8th, DNF, 10th, 7th, 17th, 11th, 10th, DNF, DNF.

Not counting the 5 x DNF, there were only 3 races that Checo finished without scoring points.

He didnt suddenly forget how to drive a car. Sure, it wasnt good enough for RedBull, but in hindsight, maybe the best option they had was to keep him and let Lawson build some more experience in the Racing Bull this year. Or promote Tsunoda instead, at least he has the experience.

Looking at the Tsunoda situation. Last year he beat Ricciardo in 9 of the 17 races they were teammates. He beat Lawson in 4 of the 6 races they were teammates. Ricciardo tested well in the RedBull. Maybe they got rid of him too soon, couldve stuck him in the RedBull this year which maybe suits him better than the Racing Bulls car, who knows? He couldnt have done worse than Lawson is doing, but nobody expected him to be this bad either. It is very clear throwing a rookie into the RedBull shouldnt have happened. If Verstappen is struggling with the car, with the last 5 races in 2024 giving him a 6th, 1st, 5th, 1st, 6th, what made them think a rookie is going to do well in it? Surely not his 6 results in the Racing Bulls car, 9th, 16th, 9th, 16th, 14th, DNF?

Clusterfuck if I ever saw one.

flazio

What do Red Bull do if Yuki doesn't get out of Q1 but Liam puts his Racing Bull into Q3 in Suzuka?

CWMMC

Liam Lawson is now gone… I hope Yuki does well.

Schorpio

Resigning Checo mid-way through the season last year was a disastrous decision. Even if there was a performance-related release clause, the reporting on the matter still suggests that there was money owed to Checo to terminate the contract.

Up until this point, RB have never looked like they would put Yuki into the second seat. Every team-mate Yuki has had in the junior team has been fairly swiftly dismissed when they haven't demonstrated that they could soundly beat him. That in of itself demonstrates the Red Bull mindset when it comes to Yuki - they see him as operating at a level when he should be being beaten. (I don't necessarily think that's fair).

The right call last year was to put Danny Ric into the second Red Bull seat mid-way through the year. He likes a pointy car (which apparently the Red Bull is in the extreme), he tested well in the car, and he was solid in the junior team (albeit not setting the world on fire). It would have been a popular decision, and realistically he wouldn't have performed any worse than Sergio.

Andrew76

So it's official now. Only 7 days to FP1, can't wait. 🙂

https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1905179285482279196

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1905180622177304874

dulpit

If Yuki crashes and burns then that's 2 drivers careers ruined by red bull in 1 season. Nice work.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302649#Comment_123302649

Very early in the season for it to be just two... Could be three or four by the end of the year!

muckwarrior

I wonder at what point would drivers actually start turning down the seat?

McFly85

No brainer for Yuki, it’s his last season in the RB family anyway so great for him to get a shot at the main car. I hope for his sake the difficulty is overblown and can put a good performance in at Suzuka. I would say the Japanese fans will be buzzing to see him there!

Will be a rough few days for Liam having to deal with constant questions about his demotion. Would hope that he can cut through the noise and put a good drive in too. One decent race and the questions will go away.

flazio

New Zealand press reaction.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DHsmz35uCtX/?igsh=NW1mc3loOXl3OGVi

Brief_Lives

they were waiting to use that…

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302404#Comment_123302404

Or another theory could be that no top driver in their right mind would want to go up against Max in the same car.

On those suggesting Danny Ric, he struggled with Renault and subsequently with the current regs with McLaren and VCARB so I don't think he'd be the solution either.

Jacovs

I think it is for the best. Especially if Lawson wanted any future in F1. He is back where he was a few months ago, but admittedly might never get another chance at the RedBull again. Gasly and Albon managed to move on, even if not very successful. Someone else asked the question, what do they do if Tsunoda also fails in the RedBull? Swap him with Hadjar? I dont think so.

Massive pressure on Tsunoda, cant wait to hear his radio messages in the Japan race.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303168#Comment_123303168

Danny Ric struck me as the obvious decision last year once Perez was struggling. Bin Perez off, move Ricciardo to the Red Bull seat and move Lawson into the VCARB seat. If Ricciardo failed, so be it. If he didn't, big wins all round.

Having said that, seeing how Ricciardo spoke in the latest Drive to Survive series, it was clear that his heart wasn't in it any longer, he said he was starting to worry about driving/etc, so I think he's happy now out of the sport.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303169#Comment_123303169

Conversely I think all the pressure is on Red Bull and not Tsunoda. They absolutely have to make this work or their season is down the toilet. Apart from being the laughing stock of the pit lane (arguably already there).

This would likely have been Tsunoda's last season in F1, so he has nothing to lose and everything to gain. He knows they have to give him time and he's also only got last on the grid to beat.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123302449#Comment_123302449

Perez did not always struggle as badly as he did last season. He did out qualify and out race Max on a fair number of occasions throughout his stint at Red Bull. He just seems to be in decline as a driver, similar to Ricciardo, so I maintain any half decent driver ought to be able to get a tune out of the second RB even if it means having to adapt driving style in order to cope with the lack of rear grip. Lawson is maybe lacking in driving skills and real pace. It will be intriguing to see what kind of a fist Yuki makes of it.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303204#Comment_123303204

I think there were one or two points in time when Danny Ric looked worth a try in isolation but never really outshone Yuki to justify it. Feel like Perez could have been moved aside even for a few races for either of the VCARB drivers towards the end of 2024 when the writing was on the wall.

I realize contracts aren’t negotiated in days (or necessarily announced at the same time) but the timing on the Checo extension in early June was odd as his form was starting to turn and he had been patchy in pretty much every year. Sainz was the obvious candidate and didn’t sign with Williams until late July. Think I heard that the Verstappen and Sainz camps may not have had the best relations but you see lads like Gasly and Ocon get through that.

Between that, having a really poor return from their your development and mercurial decision making on keeping/swapping/axing drivers, they are where they are.

muckwarrior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303168#Comment_123303168

He didn't struggle with Renault. He compared very well vs his team mates, it just wasn't a quick car. His struggles started at McLaren.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303287#Comment_123303287

Oh yes. He was somewhat competitive with Max at the start, even outperformed Max on occasion as a decent driver should. And even until mid way through last season he was doing OK. But as @Jacovs above pointed put, as the car changed last year, Perez went backwards. So it suggests the change in development direction was good for Max but bad for Perez. And either Lawson is rubbish or the direction of development has gone further towards Max and away from the second driver.

Maybe Tsunoda will be suited to the car and do fine. Maybe he'll struggle too. If Tsunoda is behind where he was in the VCARB, then Red Bull need to have a serious think about developing the car just for Max.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303854#Comment_123303854

We know there was a change, but it doesn't seem like it was deliberately towards Max.

Like we have heard Perez say the car was becoming undrivable but because Max was still ok people thought it was a Perez issue - until towards the end of the season they found an actual problem they had introduced.

So it seems more that Max is simply superb and able to compensate for the issue, rather than the development direction deliberately messing with the second driver. Sure hasn't the speculation been that Max is of the opinion RB need to fix the damn car and make it easier to drive than swap drivers.

Forza_Monza

Better to cut Lawson now and put him in Racing Bulls.

They planned to cut Yuki anyway altogether so might aswell do it in Rebull and pocket the 10m from Honda.

If Max leaves RedBull at the end of the year, then better hope the 2026 car is built in a completely different direction.

Gamb!t

Some interesting info from Albon on the car setups to suit driving styles.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13335080/yuki-tsunoda-replaces-liam-lawson-red-bulls-problem-in-finding-a-team-mate-for-max-verstappen

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303867#Comment_123303867

I don't put much store by drivers wanting to keep a teammate they're beating comprehensively. I've never heard a driver say they want to get rid of their inferior teammate. Hamilton wanting to keep Bottas instead of getting Russell is another example.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123303935#Comment_123303935

"Pushed further, Horner interestingly said: "He [Verstappen] is constantly asking for more and more front of the car and you will always follow the direction of your faster driver and that leads the organisation in terms of its development."

Despite this admission from Horner, Verstappen has not exactly been happy with the Red Bull car for nearly 12 months now since McLaren began to win races last year""

Sounds like Max is getting what he wants on the car and doesn't like it.