Son accused of affray

csirl

Following on from the above. Ive a relative who was similarly accussed after being a victim of an attack. There was a huge push from solicitor and Gardai to try to persuade her to plead guilty. Easy option for them all. She refused point blank. Went to a hearing and the Garda case fell apart very quickly. Case was dismissed without her even having to.present a defence and, one of the the Garda witnesses ended up with a file going to the DPP for perverting the couse of justice - relative insisted on it due to the rubbish that was said in court. Guard got referred to GSOC. Great result.

Deregos.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122881351#Comment_122881351

Exactly. @Sono Topolino go to a different solicitor. Only the lazy ones would ever coax a schoolboy to plead guilty in this type of scenario. Your son was clearly just defending himself and his property which is not against the law. A decent solicitor will have these charges thrown out.

Wishing you luck with this.

Hobby farmer

If your son was 17 at the time of the alleged offence he would be eligible to be dealt with under the Juvenile Diversion Scheme.

JIdontknow

I would fight this also. Was he only pushing and shoving and using language, no real physical assault? Also consider how any guilty plea would affect him, if your son ever intends to travel to America or Australia etc. having a conviction may prevent that so as others have said I would change solicitor and review all the evidence and also get any additional evidence you can such as statement from the manager etc.

spaceHopper

I would get a copy of the CCTV and ask another solicitor or a barrister if you can get referred to one by a solicitor (gate keepers). From the sound of it, you son can say, they attempted to mug him and he defended himself, any name calling was not carried out by him. Do they have a witness saying he called them names. From the sound of it his solicitor is trying to get them to take a plea so that they don't get a conviction. It's very likely to work but not guaranteed.

Life lesson is never give a statement unless you have legal advice. The fact that he wasn't cautioned might be worth exploring, could you get he statement thrown out.

Sono Topolino

Hearing date is almost upon me so I have asked the solicitor to instruct a barrister specialised in criminal law. Changing solicitors now seems counter productive, but hopefully the barrister will be able to give my son a better result.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122884079#Comment_122884079

He hasn't pleaded yet, so how could there be a hearing date? If he pleads not guilty and seeks disclosure of the prosecution evidence, the hearing, it will be adjourned for mention. there won't be a hearing for months if he contests it.

Sono Topolino

I may have misjudged the solicitor. The barrister we spoke to agrees that there is a reasonable chance of an acquital if my son disputes the charges, but that it depends on the temperment of the Judge. The Gardaí have informally communicated to the solicitor that they will not object to probation, which means no conviction will be recorded if the Judge accepts the recommendation. The barrister said that while he can offer no assurance, the chances of a probation order are "excellent" if my son pleads guilty. On the other hand if my son fights the charges and the Judge decides that the facts support a conviction, the chances of a probation order sare rather reduced.

Assuming my son does not come to the attention of the Gardaí again, the barrister advises that probation is functionally the same as an acquital. No conviction will be recorded against him and he can still travel to America etc.

My son is now minded to accept the solicitor's recommendation of a guilty plea "to get it over with". Given the stress of leaving cert preparation, I'm now leaning towards the same position...

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122886487#Comment_122886487

Sorry I meant "court date". Not a lawyer so apologies if I interchange terms out of ignorance.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122879860#Comment_122879860

There is no chance of that. Not even of he was the guilty party and robbed someone else.

Maybe get another legal opinion

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122879954#Comment_122879954

Not this case, but last year there was one boy who slapped another boy on the arse and it went the whole way to the supreme court.

Nothing surprises me about the Irish legal system and it's ability to make a mountain out of a molehill

reclose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122886688#Comment_122886688

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I wasn’t a saint in the situation but I was charged with something I didn’t do.
my solicitor told me to plead guilty and take the probation and fine.
I followed their advice to get it over and done with as cheaply as possible.

tayto lover

If your son was under 18 years of age at the time then he's entitled to be considered for a caution under the JLO Scheme. Unless he has previous cautions and is no longer suitable. Your solicitor should know this already.

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122890174#Comment_122890174

The solicitor says that as he has been charged as an adult and has a court date, that ship has sailed.

csirl

This case iisnt suitable for probation. Note that probation means a group of social workers will be in your life for the next 6-12 months and he may have to attend a course with a community organisation. Overkill and not without risk.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122890561#Comment_122890561

He should not have been charged as an adult though as he was 17 at the time. That is unless he has previous history and has run out of chances.

spaceHopper

I wouldn't be 100% sure that this won't affect travels, some visa forms Oz / NZ I think say have you ever been charged and what was the out come, if he says yes, guilt, probation no recoded conviction how would that look. I know it's a risk but I'd ask to see the evidence first then plead. Have you seen the CCTV?

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913937#Comment_122913937

That is concerning actually. I will need to discuss this with the solicitor ASAP as the court date is tomorrow.

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122891169#Comment_122891169

I agree, but what can I do now that he has been charged?

spaceHopper

Good luck

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914121#Comment_122914121

Your solicitor/barrister should know that. They can bring it to the attention of the judge.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914121#Comment_122914121

Mention it to your solicitor and the garda involved before the case begins. I think they made a mistake unless he has lots of JLO cautions previously and is no longer suitable for caution.

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914566#Comment_122914566

Will do. He hasn't had any previous interactions with the Gardaí.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915001#Comment_122915001

Then he should be and is entitled to be treated as a juvenile. Make sure you mention it to the gardai and your solicitor. It could prevent him from getting a Criminal Record.

monkeybutter

This all sounds a bit fishy

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915166#Comment_122915166

Apparently he has no such entitlement as he was charged after he turned the age of 18: https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/in-depth/arbitration-key-elements2

Is there anything concrete I can ang my hat on here?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915971#Comment_122915971

The offence happened before he was 18 so he's entitled to be considered for a JLO caution. The fact that he turned 18 in the meantime does not matter.

spaceHopper

How did the case go?

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122915174#Comment_122915174

It’s all BS sure. I got dogs abuse earlier in the thread for calling it for what it was.

Sono Topolino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122918714#Comment_122918714

Oh sorry I meant to reply but so much has been going on. The barrister had a word with the court presenter and it was struck out.

Good outcome but I'm frustrated that the Gardaí came to their decision at the 11th hour. Solicitor said that a strike out was always on the cards but he can't promise it because it requires agreement from the prosecuting Garda. Part of me wishes it had gone to a hearing so the Judge could give them a dressing down but I know this is best available outcome for my son.