When, why did Ireland lose the plot, or did it at all?

Ionraice

I actually asked someone why they voted for the Healy Raes. The answer? They look after Kerry...

The single biggest problem in Irish politics isparish pump politics, followed by too much power being held by ministers, who are quick to crack the party whip. Now, if we could get input from every elected representative on a cohesive plan for the development of the Country, how much more could we achieve?

Sadly, I don't think it will ever happen.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122868193#Comment_122868193

The single biggest problem in Irish politics isparish pump politics

It isn't really. People traditionally have always voted along party lines, you were either FF or FG with a sprinkling of Indo's. Few other marginal parties.

There has been few instances of an Independent Parish Pumper that has any sort of power at a national level.

Also all politics is local, because that is where people live.

I think the actual current charge is politicians have lost touch with local people.

Now, if we could get input from every elected representative on a cohesive plan for the development of the Country, how much more could we achieve?

That would be an unworkable mess.

prunudo

It's an odd one really, the first few posts seem to equate people questioning what they are told, not trusting the government or big corporations as those loosing the plot.

I see it the other way, why do so many Irish people contuine to be so gullible, and take everything at face value. But similar to the Catholic church era, it seems that there is something in our psych that means Irish people have to hang on authorities every word no matter how much it seems to lack common sense.

tom1ie

The country’s doing pretty well tbf.
The major issue that is holding Ireland INC back is ABP and the planning system.

It’s just not fit for purpose and needs to be completely upgraded.

Major projects taking years and years to clear planning and then to become the subject of JRs taking years and years is insane.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058381513/when-why-did-ireland-lose-the-plot-or-did-it-at-all

I'm not a SF supporter, but SF did actually 'bomb the Brits out of Ireland' in the 20th century in the war of independence, so to call them 'Totally Deluded' for thinking they could 'bomb the brits' out of the 6 counties when this is actually what they achieved, just over a longer timeline (its only a matter of time now before there needs to be a referendum in rejoining the republic due to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, No IRA campaign, = no Good Friday Agreement.

SF have been a political party with no ties to any active paramilitary organisations now for over 25 years, so to say it's ludicrous that they could be a mainstream political party now is like saying it is ludicrous that FF or FG were mainstream politial parties in the 1940s

This is not to say that voting for Sinn Fein is a good idea. Their stance on Putin and Ukraine is frankly disgusting (essentially that we should abandon Ukraine by pulling all support on the basis of 'ending the war') And they are very ropey on other key issues where I do not trust them to flip flop to the populist right where they think it can benefit them politically

The stuff about vaccine denialism is insane though. One of the greatest achievements in modern medical science that have saved countless millions of lives and saved many millions more from life altering disabilities and disfigurements. Opposing vaccines as a political stance is no less stupid than opposing hand washing or cooking chicken before eating it.

Hotblack Desiato

Turning childcare & education over to the Catholic Church.

 The state had no money to put into education and health, so from the point of view of most of the population at the time, this was a no brainer.

BS of the lowest order. The state has been paying in full for primary education since the mid 19th century (it's why they're called "national schools" even though 95% are under church control). Ratepayers and taxpayers paid for the Tuam home and all the other places of horror. It was never a question of money, it was a question of power.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122867040#Comment_122867040

Yeah, the plague of Trump fandom for instance.

thereiver

Ireland has not fallen into chaos because some idiots read websites and think vaccines are a hoax a few recent scandals has reduced public support for sinn fein .yes the church owns many schools even though the government pays for teachers and other costs to run them .compared with the UK we are doing great UK government are raising tax's on everything in order to just keep government services going while the economy slows down .

Our main problem is housing and our medical services being overloaded by the increase in population

Hotblack Desiato

I'm not a SF supporter, but SF did actually 'bomb the Brits out of Ireland' in the 20th century in the war of independence, so to call them 'Totally Deluded' for thinking they could 'bomb the brits' out of the 6 counties when this is actually what they achieved, just over a longer timeline (its only a matter of time now before there needs to be a referendum in rejoining the republic due to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, No IRA campaign, = no Good Friday Agreement.

Wow, what a level of sheer delusion.

No terrorist campaign = no need to convince the terrorists to stop killing innocent people. Let's not give credit to murderers for stopping murdering.

The only reason the 1919-21 war was won (just) was because it had the active support of many and the tacit support of many more. Whereas in NI most opposed, and still do, breaking the union with Britain so it was a doomed endeavour from the start. Only deportation or death camps will bring about SF's vision of the future.

SF have been a political party with no ties to any active paramilitary organisations now for over 25 years

😂🤣😂🤣 remind me how Gerry and Mary-Lou were selected?

Ionraice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122868765#Comment_122868765

People have absolutely traditionally voted along party lines. Having said that, the politicians who were subsequently elected - and particularly the Independents/smaller parties - ensured their re-election largely by obtaining some perceived windfall/largesse for their area, which they promptly pointed out whenever they sought re-election.

I agree that the current charge is that politicians have lost touch with the people. (Personally, I believe it).

However, it is difficult to imagine that a: politicians who hold regular clinics are completely out of touch with the people, and b: that any large group of people are ever in complete agreement one every issue.

Which begs the question, are the senior members of the various parties the people who really decide policy, while the TDs are more akin to vote getter who are thrown the occasional bone to keep their constituents sufficiently satisfied to ensure a "safe" seat for the party.

I don't believe that getting input from every elected representative on a cohesive plan for the development of the Country would be an unworkable mess. Rather, I believe it would be a true representative democracy.

Note, I said a plan for the development of the Country, not every single policy.

So, if, for example, Area A was ideally suited to become a major transport/employment/A.N. other hub, I can think of no valid reason why TDs shouldn't make submissions about any improvements or issues that they foresee.

Right now, we seem to run the Country on a mainly reactive basis. Or push the can down the road in the hope that the next Government/TDs have to deal with it.

Eg. Dublin has a housing crises. Areas in commuting distance are pretty built up. It's really not necessary.

What is required is a second city, be that Cork or Galway - or a brand new hub in the midlands.That would of course require infrastructure.(Especially rail) I haven't heard a word about any such pro-active planning. That's just one example - and it's one where I believe our version of Governance could be vastly improved, if TDs weren't only good little soldiers doing what they're told, and actually looked at the issues in the Country as a whole - as well as looking after their own constituency, of course.

I'm not naive enough to believe it would be a perfect solution, but I do believe the idea has merit, and certainly could be incorporated to some degree.

Or we could just continue with a situation where almost half of our TDs really have no say in - well - anything. Because any decisions made are made by the "ruling" party/parties.

The rest might as well stay home (and, apparently, frequently do!).

thereiver

Its likely we .ll get another fianna fail,fine gael government with pretty much the same policy's

So there's not much sign of policy change .

I think there's a housing crisis all over Ireland young people are leaving Ireland because they cannot afford to buy a house 20 thousand people are coming here every year the present emergency housing units are full

The opw is spending 60 million renting a building for 10 years rather than buying a building for 35 million to house government offices how does this make sense

It would make sense to move some government offices to cork or galway to reduce costs

Are planning system does not work properly due to lack of staff

Idbatterim

Come the next election, its going to be hard for them to say they can solve the housing crisis "LOL"!!!! when you allow that level of housing need into the country. But they will get away with this lie, for another four years… Dont built even mid rise in dublin, let sites sit vacant for years, going around a merry go round of the local nimbys, who stall development and then the new home owners, end up paying tens of thousands minimum extra in housing costs…

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122872743#Comment_122872743

oh, we had world class welfare before the population started rocketing, did we?

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122872932#Comment_122872932

where are they leaving to? What developed countries don’t have a housing crisis either??

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873563#Comment_122873563

On the whole? None that I can name but I daresay a lot of people would enjoy a jump in quality of life by moving to places like Scotland or the north of England. The UK absolutely has a housing crisis but it's not evenly spread and if one can find work in the areas I mentioned, house prices are a lot less mental. A friend bought a place in an affluent part of Liverpool and did it up for well below the cost of a London studio.

The housing demand is surging where the jobs and economic activity are but Ireland's crisis is on a wholly different level. Like, I've seen jobs in the west of Ireland and decided not to apply because there was literally nothing suitable to rent.

There are parts of west Germany like Rhineland-Palatinate, Hesse and North Rhine-Westphalia where one can rent securely for much less than in Ireland. Here's an example from Frankfurt for less than €1,000 a month and the rent includes heating:

https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/150917132?referrer=RESULT_LIST_LISTING&searchId=13f02221-2943-330e-8431-3e4da488a1a1&searchUrl=%2Fde%2Fhessen%2Ffrankfurt-am-main%2Finnenstadt-i%2Fwohnung-mieten&searchType=district#/

Best place I saw on a search for the west of Ireland was a pokey flat in Ballina on a 7-month contract for €750.00 a month. It is ridiculous.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058381513/when-why-did-ireland-lose-the-plot-or-did-it-at-all

Irish IQ levels are going in one direction

The smart people are having less kids

The thick ones are having more

You do the maths

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873654#Comment_122873654

The reason the country has lost the plot is because of arrogant classest attitudes like this.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873654#Comment_122873654

IQ hasn't moved in 20 years. We're about 95 average since 2004 at least.

The "Idiocracy" theory makes no sense since richer people have always had smaller families. If it were true then the entirely of Ireland would be a backwater since poverty and large families were a constant for hundreds of years.

China would be the technological and cultural peak of humanity with their one child policy.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873639#Comment_122873639

The rental sector has been completely destroyed by mad left wing populist policies of current government

Who in their right mind would have invested in property in Ireland when stocks would have offered 3x the return this year without the headaches and insane risks involved renting in Ireland while being capped to inflation and other regulations

Manach

Perhaps because we, Irish, have now fractured as a society with competing narrative framings that convince each sub-clique they hold the true world view. From the OP, it could be rebutted that FF in the 1920s were just such a party that gain electoral traction as SF now or that Covid-19 policies from the Government were not effective (instead of providing effective care and support to most at risk groups that they endulged in performative lockdowns to show that something was being done). Although while I agree with OP on his take on Mr. Hutch, that the current government has banned political vigils in certain areas (eg near abortion 'clinics') it does make one understand the wish to vote for anyone but the main steam parties.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873723#Comment_122873723

That's just not true though.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873843#Comment_122873843

Why would anyone with let’s say 300K in savings invest in property in Ireland to rent out? There’s no return if one actually does everything by the book and above board and a high chance of ending up with tenants from hell that you can’t evict

Same goes for building houses, by time you have all the taxes and red tape done there’s feck all profit

The industry is there as evidenced by all the commercial properties they build which is much less hassle

We had no issue building too many homes when there was less red tape

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873914#Comment_122873914

Instead of obsessing with landlords' profits, Ireland should be building more social housing and allowing the construction of private housing.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873963#Comment_122873963

I agree, however the governments are incapable of building a bike shed cheaply never mind hospitals or housing

They would either need to subcontract to building companies who very much do care about profits, or break EU state aid and competition rules by directly employing personnel

It all sounds nice saying “ignore profits” but without a profit motive no one would build anything, or buy and rent out

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873984#Comment_122873984

I didn't say "ignore profits" though. I was questioning the importance accorded to landlords' profits when the fertility rate is dropping, no doubt because people cannot afford themselves, much less children.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ireland+fertility+rate&oq=ireland+fertility&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgAEAAYRhj7ARiABDIMCAAQABhGGPsBGIAEMgkIARBFGDkYgAQyBwgCEAAYgAQyBwgDEAAYgAQyBwgEEAAYgAQyCAgFEAAYFhgeMggIBhAAGBYYHjIICAcQABgWGB4yCAgIEAAYFhgeMggICRAAGBYYHtIBCDI4MzFqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I've no profit with the profit motive in and of itself but centre-right governments and parties that compose them such as FF and FG are not going to antagonise swathes of the population by reforming planning regulation. Here in the UK, a tax loophole for wealthy landowners has been closed and people are wailing about that.

Montage of Feck

Back in the day it was only the idle landed gentry that had time to ponder their existence and the laws of nature.

Montage of Feck

The accusations that the current government is implementing a left wing housing policy is ridiculous. If only they would! They was a very interesting documentary about housing on tg4 recently, can't remember the name, but the housing policy in yearly years of the state was far more progressive than today.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122874010#Comment_122874010

we have one of the higher rates among all developed countries tho

Or are you trying suggest Ivory Coast is the place to be?

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122874071#Comment_122874071

In years past rent caps did not exist and there were more places to rent

Coincidence?

Placing a cap of inflation rate on profits made investors stop investing, resulting being people crying about nowhere to rent, shock horror

Interestingly the places @ancapailldorcha mentioned in his earlier post have no rent caps

Some sort of correlation there, dunno, shrugs /s

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122873681#Comment_122873681

Our population has massively grown and we haven't improved our IQ

Our IQ is low as well.

UK is 99

So you just proved my point without knowing you did

Country	IQ (Lynn/Becker)
Japan	106.48
Taiwan	106.47
Singapore	105.89
Hong Kong	105.37
China	104.1
South Korea	102.35
Belarus	101.6
Finland	101.2
Liechtenstein	101.07
Germany	100.74