2024 Assistant Principal in Civil Service

Juggler101

Threw in my application this evening. Probably didn't give it as much thought or time as it deserved, but at least my name is in the hat now! I got very high in an AO competition a year or so ago, but didn't take the position as it was in the International Protection Office. I'd love to get a position somewhere slightly more related to my current skill and area of experience, but I've no idea how I would fare in the AP interviews... Fingers crossed I get that far!

Best of luck all 🙏 Looking forward to the chats over the next while 😀

2016claire

Good morning, everyone. Quick question—does anyone have the booklet or know where I can find it? I haven’t been able to come across one. Thank you.

2016claire

Same here—it’s my first time considering this. Any advice would be much appreciated. 😊

jessimirish

Question about the assessments, in case anyone has done them before - I tried the AO and EO sample tests on publicjobs.ie and did well on the verbal and SJ ones. I hit the pass mark for AO on numerical but only just as I wasn't going quickly enough and didn't get through all the questions. I tried the test again to get through the rest of the questions. Turns out I am getting all the numerical questions right, but I'm just quite slow between using the calculator and writing things down etc.

Obviously the AP test will be harder but there's none on the publicjobs site to try out. How much is time a factor on the real assessments? It's annoying because I am getting the questions correct but have to jot calculations as I go and worry I won't be quick enough to pass on the day, considering I barely hit the pass mark with the number of questions I got through on the mock AO test and this will be harder. 36 questions in 30 minutes is tough going between reading and understanding the question and actually getting the answer right!

It's frustrating because I think I have a very strong application otherwise… but my maths speed could snooker me (even if I'm getting the q's right!)

Juggler101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714471#Comment_122714471

It's on this page, see the link "information booklet"

https://publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=194388&campaignId=24456408

PumpkinSpiceLatte

I'm torn between selecting Dublin or Cork for location. I'd like to move to Cork, and am currently waiting on mobility as an AO.

But would it even be worth my while to choose a location with fewer positions? Or should I opt for the safety of Dublin and re-start my mobility journey all over again if I get it?

This is my first time going for AP and I'm guessing I'd need to place fairly high on the Cork panel to be in with a chance.

hungerjames

I would advise candidates not to use AI under any circumstances.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716967#Comment_122716967

Do you mean by asking AI to write responses to questions in the application form?

Rosia

I applied for AP in 2020 and lost out at the final stage by a few points in my interview which was tough going after going through all the different stages. I'm considering applying again but I'm in the process of moving from Dublin to Galway. I understand that there are a lot less positions in Galway but would anyone have any more definite information on this? Essentially I don't want to go through the stress of the process if there's little chance of a position at the end of it! Thanks.

hungerjames

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717295#Comment_122717295

Exactly. I don't work for PAS but I've served on interview boards where the answers have suddenly contained phrases midway like "Certainly! I would be happy to summarise the following for you:"

You will be expected to be able to write original words of your own making in positions like these. The argument that the detection software isn't sufficiently advanced enough yet isn't very compelling when most of the time it spits out overly generic, clunky phraseology that reads like too many other people's applications vs. saying things in your own actual words, which in my opinion almost always results in a stronger application regardless, unless your written English isn't to a good enough standard for the role.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717432#Comment_122717432

According to the application pack these were the APO positions assigned to Galway from recent competitions: 2 (2022 competition), 0 (2021 competition), 1 (2020 competition), 4 (2018 competition), 6 (2016 competition).

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717607#Comment_122717607

Most of the time it spits out overly generic, clunky phraseology that reads like too many other people's applications vs. saying things in your own actual words, which in my opinion almost always results in a stronger application regardless, unless your written English isn't to a good enough standard for the role.

If you're using Gen AI to write your application and not proof reading it/editing it afterwards, thats an awful use of Gen AI.

If you're using Gen AI to spell check, grammar check, or advise on how to modify and rewrite an already written application that your proof read and edit afterwards. That is fine. Equally, nothing wrong with using Gen AI to assist with writing sentences or two.

To be clear, "nothing wrong with" - from a moral sense, the documentation is clear in that its banned.

The argument that the detection software isn't sufficiently advanced enough yet isn't very compelling

Gen AI detection software is a scam. It doesn't work. There's zero viable methods for detecting GenAI use that would stand up to an appeal. You just need to use it sensibly.

You will be expected to be able to write original words of your own making in positions like these

GenAI can be used as an aide here too. No different than Grammarly just not culturally accepted in the same way.

Rosia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717624#Comment_122717624

Thank you, I hadn't seen that. It doesn't fill me with much hope!

hungerjames

Yes we're mostly in agreement, I just mean "…well it's not as if I'll be caught!" isn't very advisable as a guiding north star in these types of application processes in general, and I would advise the strongest caution for any tempted applicants.

MrMusician18

Why not use AI? The whole application system is a load of bollocks anyway and deserves to be treated with complete contempt.

Having done many public sector interviews, the standard of assessment and quality of interviewing is absolutely abysmal.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717877#Comment_122717877

Well if people include "Certainly! I would be happy to summarise the following for you:" or other similar phrases ← they're idiots and nobody is suggesting stuff like this wouldn't be caught. I've seen it in student submissions alright.

If you use with properly, you cannot be caught.

is that a button

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717624#Comment_122717624

I'm curious as to where I can look up this info to see numbers appointed for various counties. Can you please advise where to find it? .. By application pack do you mean it's contained in the application booklet? Thanks! 😊

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122718541#Comment_122718541

Yes it's in the Candidate Information Booklet that can be downloaded from Public Jobs, page 4, third paragraph from the end of the page:

A breakdown of the number of Assistant Principal Officer candidates assigned from panels across locations in the recent Assistant Principal Officer competitions can be viewed here

The hyperlink directs to Assistant_Principal_Vacancy_by_Region_Previous_Competitions_2024.pdf (publicjobs.ie)

I hope that hyperlink works but if not then please do give me a shout.

ShrimpTech39

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122700723#Comment_122700723

I worked with an AP that genuinely did nothing and just went around micromanaging to look busy. I'd another AP who had a lot of work to keep track of day to day. It varies.

is that a button

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122718979#Comment_122718979

That's excellent! Thanks a mill! 😊👍

2016claire

Hi everyone,
Question Regarding AP Eligibility. We were discussing the AP position at work today, and some staff members mentioned that you must be an HEO to apply for AP. Does anyone know if that is true? I’m considering applying for AP, but I am currently an EO. Thank you!

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719967#Comment_122719967

No. You don't need to be a serving HEO.

res1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122719967#Comment_122719967

That is not correct anyone regardless of grade can apply for it. Best of luck to you all. For some advice below is handy website for practicing the online assessments I found it very useful. Also check out Brian McIvor on you tube or his website which I also found very helpful.

https://www.brianmcivor.com /

https://www.practiceaptitudetests.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgrO4BhC2ARIsAKQ7zUn8CD2QtEJDGR8UTOHU20xPSEgDYxR2UQDJakP4vLP-yd4RwPl6S28aAssoEALw_wcB

DirectorKrennic

I heard that they are struggling in general to find interviewers for a lot of competitions so for anyone who applies and does well, I imagine interviews could be ongoing throughout most of 2025? Apparently this was the case for the 2022 AP competition, high volumes too of applicants!

2016claire

Thank you so much .

2016claire

thank you

Lollyy

I just submitted my form. So glad to have it done and gone in. Best of luck everyone :)

res1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122720030#Comment_122720030

Happy to help anyone to survive this journey which I have been through. Pm for any advice. No probs.

336699

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122720030#Comment_122720030

Thanks for this, any help is gratefully appreciated!

parisee88

Getting wayyyy ahead of myself but does anyone know how far they go back with references or is it just current and previous?

res1

At this point of the comp my advice to anyone is to simply focus on the application. This is the first and one of the most important parts of the comp. This is used for shortlisting so it wont matter if you are amazing at interviews and online assessments if your application does not cut it. There is a character NOT WORD count for the fields to be filled in. Do not exceed the character count but use up every one because they all count but only if you are using them correctly to demonstrate what you are being asked. Do not waste the characters in your application on useless/flowery bs.

dory

I agree. I wonder do a lot of the people who on this thread said "Just threw in an application" know how important those four spiels about yourself are. Lots won't get past the first round as they haven't tied what they're saying to the capability framework, won't have focused on the results/learning of their action etc.

2016claire

thank you for the advice 🙏

the5th

Good luck to all. I did well in the other tests in 2022, but I was 2 points short in the job sim test, and so didn't qualify. Was disappointed, and surprised. I think I played it too safe with the "somewhat appropriate/inappropriate." Anyway hopefully get through this time. I see someone above posted a link to a site that seems to have examples of those job sim tests. Any other resources that anyone knows of would be greatly appreciated.

I see that the booklet says that it is not envisaged to appoint from any panel after December 2025. That's interesting; won't be a situation like 2022 comp., where people from last batch were being appointed in July 2024. Also possible that the panel will be small, and only the very top will get in? Suggests too that they plan on getting everything done by December 2024? Ambitious, given the way that interviews normally go. Also means that maybe there will be another panel drawn up this time next year, and so on? Anyway impossible to know with PAS.

I'm very interested in the AI situation. I do not feel the need to use it myself, but interested as to why they can't allow for a pass to finesse or trim what is actually a person's real experience to tidy up and/or fit in the character limit. Surely the point of an interview is to explore the examples, which you would hope would expose any untruths.

It is a strange disconnect between policy and practice. There is a lot of inertia and distrust around AI on the ground. I include myself in this; I don't use it, don't know how to speak to it to get it to do what I want, haven't been interested in learning up to this point. But I'm sure I read somewhere in some policy, maybe just in my department, can't remember, that exploring and leveraging AI tools is part of overall digital strategy going forward. I don't see any problem with it as an editing tool, if it improves overall quality and saves time. I've read many emails over the years that could have done with a crunch by ChatGPT for sure…

Anyway, good luck everyone, fingers crossed!

thelungs

Hi, just wondering if character count includes spaces? I hope not

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122735765#Comment_122735765

Of course it does. It’s a character.

mrsdewinter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122735765#Comment_122735765

I think it does.

If it's any help, Google Docs offers you a character count function - it's bundled in with Word Count under Tools in any document you're working on, say, the rough draft of your responses.

BlueAW

Given the different wording of Q1, do we think they are looking for a few examples as opposed to one example for the rest of the questions?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122738688#Comment_122738688

highlighting the particular roles

Yes, based on them asking for roles (plural), my interpretation is effectively providing a brief summary of the main leadership roles you have had. Q2-4 are single examples.

hungerjames

How are people getting on with their forms?

Please remember the deadline is Thursday at 3PM, not five - this catches people out every time. I would aim to have it submitted well before then so you don't have to worry about any last minute changes making it through on time.

greencatkin

Has anyone done the optional Irish assessment for a civi service role?

lauren05

Does anyone know if there is a timeframe which these competencies must be from? As in, can they be from a previous job a few years ago or must all of them be in the last couple of years for example.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745516#Comment_122745516

I think they are not too strict on the timeframe. I applied to the last competition and used examples from ten years ago that they seemed to accept without objection. Good luck to you.

delricyo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745516#Comment_122745516

It depends on the interview panel. The unwritten rule in Revenue is that they would ask for a more recent example if it was older than 5 years. I was recently asked for a more recent example in an interview when I used a 4 year old example. Frustrating as it was a really big project that took months to complete.

kwat

Finally have a draft of each question ready. Have spent about eight hours over the past few days putting them together and linking them to the capability framework competencies as best I can. Now time to reread and fill in the rest of the form before Thursday.
First time applicant here after 20 years in the private sector. Let’s see how it goes!

Good luck everyone.

hungerjames

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122745959#Comment_122745959

I finally deleted my last pre-Civil Service example today, from 2018, even though it's perfect. Reads prehistoric now to be relying on examples from a different sector six years ago 😭

Juggler101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122744383#Comment_122744383

I did it around 20 years ago and regretted it. It took time away from my preparation for the main interview and I wasn't fluent enough to justify it

Happyphantom

I keep getting an error message every time I try to save my application as a draft today. Is anyone else the same?

hungerjames

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122748833#Comment_122748833

It errors out if you've had the page open for longer than 20 minutes.

You're better off getting your answers ready in a Word Doc and copying / pasting in and saving in one go.

Microsoft Word has a Word Count in the Review tab that includes a character count if you've the text highlighted.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122747107#Comment_122747107

Me too, and I'm sick of the blasted thing at this stage 😀

One final read through this evening and then hopefully ready to submit.

Good luck everybody!