2024 Assistant Principal in Civil Service

Cheeseplant

A new competition has opened. Closed on 24/10 on public jobs.

Good Luck to all those applying

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=194388&campaignId=24456408&Itemid=263

336699

I’ll throw my hat in the ring for this one, best of luck everyone.

Oresim

Here we go again!!🙈

Meadowlands

@Oresim 🤩 Here we go again!

AngelaG

Capabilities rather than competencies ....

Foxy1987

I noticed that you can only choose one location for this comp..

jessimirish

Throwing my hat in the ring for the first time. Coming from the private sector, this application process will be a learning curve for me. Best of luck everyone!

mmerton365

First time eligible for InterD.

Looks a little less prescribed than last time.

Good luck to all.

Mogs121

Anyone have experience of capabilities vs competencies based interviews?

GailliamhAbú2022

Where could you get help with the application? Or examples of what is expected. Never done this application before.

Leesha

First time going for this. Best of luck everyone

87629

Assistant Principal Open Stream 

Assistant Principal Interdepartmental Stream

can I ask what the difference here is?
is it better to go for both streams ?? Thanks so much

furrybones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122683898#Comment_122683898

You must have 2 years service to apply to the interdepartmental stream. No service required for the open stream.

87629

thank you! Is it that if you do have 2 years service in x department that you can be selected for any department if successful ? i.e. you may end up in a different department? (As the closed ap comp is the opposite of this)

would then assume that you can apply for both if you do have the 2 years service and that may increase chances being in two streams ?

Wood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684008#Comment_122684008

You need to have 2 years service total. Could be a combination of Dept. X, Y and Z. Internal Stream is restricted to serving civil servants only, and if successful you can be assigned to any department.

If you apply for both streams you will have 2 orders of merit, but only a single score, so for example you could be 49th on the interdepartmental, but 599th on the open, depending on the quality of applicants

jessimirish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684172#Comment_122684172

Thanks! I'll be applying on the Open as I'm coming from the private sector. I was wondering have you any idea if when assigning roles do they prioritise the InterD stream over the Open stream or how does it work in terms of when people are called? If there are two separate streams how do they assign merit on one vs the other? (so say a role opens, will they always go to whoever's next up on the InterD first before whoever's next up on Open, and do they exhaust that stream before they even start with Open)

BlueAW

Based on the leadership application question - is there much hope in going for this with experience of a small team size for a short duration? Do we know if this is the same question from previous competitions?

furrybones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684641#Comment_122684641

The new capability framework takes potential into account. Even if you don't have experience in a specific area, but you can show you have the potential, you can pass the shortlisting/interview stage.

sedum

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684641#Comment_122684641

What do you think would count as a small team and a short duration (curious for my own application too)…? Maybe you can draw out the wider impact that your team had eg were they influencing a wider range of stakeholders to deliver? There's only so many direct reports that one person can effectively have anyway…

sedum

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684475#Comment_122684475

Looking at the previous thread on this topic, I think there is a ratio where they alternate between the two streams to take candidates

BlueAW

@sedum I’m currently in CS but no direct reports as not the norm in my organisation but I have experience managing a team of 2/3 on a project for a duration of 1-2 months so I’m not sure if what they want is more targeted towards having direct reports.

jessimirish

Question… I'm throwing my hat in the ring for this competition, currently in the private sector. Basically I'm in a fairly toxic corporate rat race environment and I want out as soon as possible (have been at the company for 7 years and enjoyed it most of the time, but things have taken a turn this year in my department). I'm motivated by being of some sort of good to the public as opposed to making money for a toxic unnecessarily intense corporate.

I have also recently applied to a couple of specific roles at government agencies, thinking based on the salary scales they are HEO level equivalent public sector roles. Would mean taking a fairly significant pay cut, but my priority is getting out of where I'm at, and given that the roles seem nice and at good orgs by all accounts (I know people who work there), I'm happy to do that at this point for an easier life. None of the application closing dates for those roles have come around yet so it's a wait and see job there.

Question is, if I were to get one of those other jobs and also be in the AP pool, would it affect my AP application chances if I were to change jobs during the application process? Obviously not ideal to change jobs so soon after starting one, but the AP salary is more in line with what I'm on now - and given the last panel seems to have taken about 2 years to place some people, I know for sure I can't wait that long to get out of where I am now. Would it reflect poorly on my application if I had started somewhere else in the meantime?

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122685453#Comment_122685453

The various roles are completely separate and would have no bearing on each other.

countyireland12345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122685453#Comment_122685453

Not at all. In the interview for the 2022 AP comp I told them I was 2 weeks into a CS job and still passed the interview and placed on the panel. It's all about demonstrating you possess the required competencies, or capabilities as they are now called.

CW2022

same as that why not! First time applying also any advice or where to look for advice? Thank you

OllieDro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684172#Comment_122684172

Thanks Wood,

Just to enquire, if you are a public servant are you eligible to apply on the interdepartmental stream?

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122687396#Comment_122687396

You’re not.

jessimirish

Question - is placement based solely on the order of merit, or do they take any of your past experience into account in terms of what department/role might be most suitable for your skillset? There's some departments I feel I'd have a lot more knowledge starting out (and others where I wouldn't have a clue) - coming from the private sector so applying open stream

hungerjames

Placement is based solely on order of merit and whatever role is next up in the hopper, without taking previous gigs into account which would slow the process down considerably.

lateron

Has anyone had any experience of the new capability interviews?

What is the difference between them and the competency based interview?

Not alot of info on them. I would appreciate anyones input on them.

Thanks in advance 🙂

okaydo

Hi All, any suggestions on the best place to do sample aptitude tests for AP level?

Openair22

Looking at this application, might jump in for experience more than anything - Im Public Sector & have never completed a Civil Service application or interview - I note the number of jobs in Dublin is at the higher end - Do jobs in the West usually go preferentially through the Interdepartmental route? They appear to be few and far between from the Panel info?

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122687602#Comment_122687602

Why not ?

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694638#Comment_122694638

As you need to be a civil servant to qualify for the interdepartmental competition, section 8.
https://assets.gov.ie/306786/e7e7149c-7302-49af-a04f-a5a08fd27a6d.pdf

Swilly22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122685453#Comment_122685453

This often happens. Go for it

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122684641#Comment_122684641

Leadership and Management are two very different things, you don't need to have ever managed a team as long as you can provide examples of the transferable skills required to do the job - hence the move to capability as opposed to competency.

Hackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122694475#Comment_122694475

Others may correct me on this but posts arising in west of the country are rare from the open panel so applicants need to be wary of that. Not sure how interdepartmental works but I do know from experience that mobility posts at AP in the west have been almost non existent in the last 18 months. Even if mobility posts come up it is interview based and the competition is fierce !

jessimirish

This might be a dumb question, but anyone know what the day to day might be like in one of these roles? Does it completely vary based on where you're placed? Hard to picture coming from the private sector, it's a little mysterious!

Leesha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122700518#Comment_122700518

It all depends on where you are placed, even different offices in the different areas can vary. In my last job the AP said on his first day he came there to retire . It was a rather large shock to the system to discover we were in a very busy area . He left as soon as he could

Skweefie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122700518#Comment_122700518

I've worked in 4 different sections.

AP1 had 12 direct reports in a service delivery operational role.

AP2 had 4 direct reports in a policy led strategy type role

AP3 had 3 direct reports in a policy implementation strategy role

AP4 has 48 direct reports in an insanely busy service delivery role

It really varies ALOT. The work is quite varied too. Of all the AP roles Ive seen, the one that would suit me is AP4 as Ive learned I dont like policy led positions.

Gordocki

Regarding question 1 below, I have multiple examples for this so is it just a short brief on each?

Cheers

Please provide an overview of your leadership and management experience at an appropriate level, highlighting the particular roles which best demonstrate your capability in leading, motivating and developing others. Please provide specific details on the size and composition of the team and the duration/timescale of your leadership/management role.

parisee88

Seeing public jobs and other companies stating they can screen application forms for AI written CVs - surely they can’t as everyone has such unique jobs and roles that if you use AI to polish your own description, you are merely finessing your job application to tailor it to the chosen role rather than plagiarising or inventing your work etc?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703956#Comment_122703956

My interpretation of Q1 is that its a brief summary of each role. For Q2/3/4 its more of detailed example demonstrating the relevant qualities according to the framework. At least that's how I'm tackling it.

I've never gone through the process before so just my guess.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704046#Comment_122704046

I won't be using AI but I can categorically say there's absolutely no reliable method for detecting AI written material. If there was, my life would be immeasurably easier. As a lecturer, we are explicitly told not to use any checker and any plagiarism case is immediately thrown out if the evidence relies on them.

Saying that, I don't think AI is good at these types of questions and you can spot when someone has used it a mile off.

Yenwod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122703956#Comment_122703956

It will have to be brief - look at the application form again "You have 2500 characters left. Word count 0" - That's only about 350 words

SheevPalps

Hey all,

I'm deciding to throw my hat into this on the long chance (currently an EO).

If you were aiming for, and knowing you'd be low if you got through at all, would it be better to aim for Dublin, more places but more people, or somewhere like Westmeath where there would be less roles, but less people?

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122704996#Comment_122704996

I just saw 2500 and assumed words. Thank God I realised, time to trim back my Q1 from 12,000 characters to 2500! Lot of fat can be trimmed (thank God!)

AGER

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122685453#Comment_122685453

No it won't matter. I came in from outside CS on an open AP competition and it was a year from my application to interview and then another 4 months on the panel until I started. All in all approx. 1.5 years from application to starting date! My main advice is to prepare, prepare, prepare. If you can get to interview stage the odds getting on the panel are good but treat every stage with total respect. Now is the time to get into CS as the economy is booming and they are on a hiring spree. When things inevitably slow down the opportunities will decrease.

Yenwod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122708662#Comment_122708662

I think everyone would assume words … like who does a character count except Twitter?!

jessimirish

Application submitted! Now for a pint and the waiting game, best of luck gang :)

Lollyy

Is anyone having difficulty saving the draft form? I’m below character count but it won’t save the form. It’s driving me nuts :(

BigElmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122712397#Comment_122712397

Check you have checked and answered all of the boxes of the mandatory questions.