Extension cost

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581198#Comment_122581198

It's a personal choice, depending on your own tolerance for risk. I think you'd be crazy to engage a contractor under conditions that you believe aren't sustainable for them. I've seen a family member have to throw a dodgy builder off site and find someone else to pick up a badly started job, and it was a nightmare that ended up costing much more than the original job would have done.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581769#Comment_122581769

Once again is it not more of a risk to pay up front and then having to throw a dodgy builder off site as I say at least the cash is still in your pocket. Its not a personal choice its being smart do not pay up front for anything better to have you cash in your pocket and pay them as you see them doing the work

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581806#Comment_122581806

It's not an either/or choice. You can find a builder who knows their stuff, gives a decent, respectable quote - but not a suicide bid, and go ahead with that builder, with all the sensible management practices you suggest.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581810#Comment_122581810

True and if they can work and then get paid in that order its better for the client. As I say the OP here seems to have got what I would consider a really good quote I mean really good and for me it set an alarm bell off so all I am saying to them is be careful check it all out , lots of reference and keep control of the financial side of things. It will be interesting to see if they got it completed for that price.

deise toffee

This man is straight up! I know him with years and he has built several houses locally and to a very high standard.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582809#Comment_122582809

Then IMO you should go for it and best of luck let us know how you get on

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122580866#Comment_122580866

There are a few critical steps missing there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581806#Comment_122581806

Those are not the only possibilities.

What about when the build completes the work, but installs really basic finishes below expectation, no floor finishes, no hardware etc. And then request his full payment. You can't simply withhold payment as you expected more for your money. If that situation went legal, you'd likely lose badly. You get what you pay for.

If the guy has a good rep and had a track record of quality at this price point. But it's really foolish to assume that the you can just hold on to money to get the job done.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122578790#Comment_122578790

Contractors price maybe, went direct labour 3 years ago now, got 242sqm bungalow all done a2 rated and furnished for less than 280k. Admittedly prices have gone up somewhat since 2021.

markw7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583913#Comment_122583913

That's some price you managed to build for, well done!

What part of the country are you in if you don't mind me asking?

newhouse87

....

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122586049#Comment_122586049

Tipperary. Lots local lads doing work, cash where necessary. Didnt skrimp on finishes, limestone cills all round, stone on front half, ash kitchen and room doors ufh,mvhr etc. My point is people too quick to go with contractors as its easy option. Bit of research and planning helps. Lad down the road built 200sq ft smaller dormer no nice extras, 440k he paid for builders finish. Over 500k by time he done.

markw7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122586116#Comment_122586116

Fair play to you for taking it on, it's not something everyone has the temperament for (myself included).

Your house sounds class btw, thanks for the info!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122586116#Comment_122586116

A lot of people wouldnt have the knowledge to oversee a build though.

Did that include architect / engineering fees?

I agree that people are too quick to be parted with mad money for a basic build. Building isnt rocket science but its not straight forward either. Most builders will try to cut corners where they think they can get away with it and save money.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587042#Comment_122587042

No architect, found house i liked driving around, found their planning application and designed similar, although in the end i had made lot of tweaks but was good starting point, includes engineer who took cash. Employ local and lads are less likely to cut corners as you will be meeting them and get recommendations if you dont know local trades people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587067#Comment_122587067

Ah. Well you didnt really have architecural drawings then. Just planning drawings.

Are you a builder or tradesman?

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587074#Comment_122587074

Nope didn't need nor want architectural drawings, waste of money. Engineer who done planning application had v detailed construction drawings in it that the roofer and builder were happy with to follow. Nope im in a multinational.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587088#Comment_122587088

Ok well done. Shows it can be done.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583913#Comment_122583913

somewhat is right maybe 30/40%

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587156#Comment_122587156

Haven't looked into it but i was buying readymix lately and had gone mental since i poured my foundation alright. Just dont think 2000sqm was good price when i was building.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122586116#Comment_122586116

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587067#Comment_122587067

You can definitely save money by doing as much as possible your self. But it's a bit unfair to simply look at it as "going with a contractor is extra money". The 280k (good job btw) you spent doesn't include your time. That value is significant for some.

Also it's easy to save money when you evading tax and playing loose with copyright and IP.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587522#Comment_122587522

Going With a contractor is always extra money, not even a debate. Work shift so have plenty time off which helps. BTW I broke zero tax or copyright laws, not up to me what trade does with money I pay him and plannings are free to anybody to view and if you read the post in full you would see i said i made lots of changes, was just a guide for my engineer as what type of house i would like.

What an odd take.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587527#Comment_122587527

Nobody has debated whether it costs more to use a contractor. Obviously it does. I said it it’s not as simple as that, it wasn’t a complicated point.

BTW I broke zero tax or copyright laws, not up to me what trade does with money I pay him and plannings are free to anybody to view

You personally didn’t evade tax, sure. But Im sure you knew exactly why you were getting it cheaper for cash.

To be clear, I’m not crying for the tax man. And I’m not claiming to never pay cash for work. I’m just pointing out that’s the reason it’s cheaper, and could come with other consequences. Sometimes a paper trail is needed - warranty, defects, certification. Might still be worth it for cash rate. But worth being aware. Plenty of people get cheaper work done and get a shock when they can’t prove it’s compliant.

As for copyright. You’re mistaken there. Being free online does not mean free to take. Eg any song on YouTube. Many won’t care, but I still think it’s worth being aware if the line between coping a design entirely and being inspired by

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588443#Comment_122588443

You Said I was evading tax, I was not. Perfectly legal to pay cash. Again I didn't take a drawing and copy it, house drawing was a starting point, in the end the main similarity was both bungalows. What you suggested I was doing was a poor taste comment. My house is signed off by engineer, its compliant to all building and safety regs.

I know it's not simple to just build a house, just think its not prudent to just go with contractor without considering direct labour. Think we should leave it there.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122589026#Comment_122589026

You knew full well why cash is cheaper. I’m pointing out there can be repercussions. I’m not sure what you don’t get there.

You seem to be conflating general advice with review of your personal build. I didn’t say your house was non compliant. I haven’t seen it. I said that people often run into issues. If you look around you’ll see many threads where that had happens.

FYI the engineer’s sign off is his opinion on what he can see, it’s pretty naive to think none of the covered up work cut corners. It happens on all builds. But likelihood increases when building cheaper, faster, or without full construction drawings.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122590825#Comment_122590825

I'm not sure what you don't get, you accused me of tax evasion, that's 100% false, cash is legal tender. I bought all materials for the house so have paper trail for everything, the tradies didnt buy the materials except the spark.

Copyright again you were wrong. I copyrighted nothing, i viewed freely available info.

Its widely known that contractors cut corners and try to get onto next job as quick as possible, look at all the fire safety issues with many apartments around the country so not seeing any reason why a self managed build would increase this likelihood. All the pitfalls you are mentioning can be just as present even Moreso imo with using a contractor rather then me using local people who i will be meeting regularly out and about.

Have the decency to admit you were wrong on my apparent tax evasion and copyrighting, i don't expect as such from you however.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122590859#Comment_122590859

I said above you didn’t personally evade tax. How about; You knowingly facilitated tax evasion to get a better price. Is that better?

As I said above, I have no issue with you saving money, I congratulated you on the price. Its not about Revenue's due. It's about the paper trail. You paid your engineer cash right? If an issue did come up, there could be issues claiming from their insurance without paper trail evidence - if you have a paper contract for cash money, good for you. I'm point it out for the benefit of others who may not be aware of the pitfalls of cash deals.

Copyright again you were wrong. I copyrighted nothing, i viewed freely available info.

I already point out that being freely viewable doesn't mean copyright free. It's available only for planning process, it is still somebodies IP. "I copyrighted nothing"…yes, the owner of the IP copyrighted it - that's the issue.

By your own admission, you found a house you like, and looked it up online, for the sole purpose of taking the drawings, which is somebody else IP. It wasn't something you view incidentally and were inspired in future. You purposely sought it out to take the design.
It happens all the time, nobody will come after you. But it's a very strange hill to die on after you openly said that's what you did.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122590919#Comment_122590919

In your first reply to me you said i evaded tax, that is 100% false. I have all the emails from my engineer at different stages of the build, for all i know he paid tax on the cash i gave him, we didn't discuss his tax affairs so no i did not knowingly evade tax. I paid my tax that's all that legally matters.

Again as you are finding this hard, i said i viewed drawings of a house, my house in the end didn't look remotely similar as i posted earlier saying both were bungalows that's about it. The engineer pulled up the house on the computer and we agreed similar style. We didn't even look at interior plans. All changed as we went about designing my house.

Your posts contain many many false assumptions and you have been proven incorrect but just can't admit it. We would be here until the cows came home and you would rather post and post and twist sentences rather then admit error.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122590927#Comment_122590927

reading comprehension is clearly not your forte. All cover in my posts above.

You personally didn’t evade tax

I said above you didn’t personally evade tax. How about; You knowingly facilitated tax evasion to get a better price

You can disagree is you like. I don’t care. I’ve repeated explained that the issue isn’t about the tax, but the paper trail and liability. The fact you are not grasping that suggests you didn’t consider it.

my house in the end didn't look remotely similar

How is what it looks like in the end relevant to what I said?

Nothing I said about copyright was incorrect. You stated quite clearly what you did. All you’ve proven is that you don’t understand copyright

found house i liked driving around, found their planning application and designed similar,

Clearly you were comfortable announcing what you did. Bizarre to deny what you did now.

Tim Robbins

Id say around 4k per square metre, roughly. We did two story 50 square metre and quotes were between 170 and 260k.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593645#Comment_122593645

You Said in your first post I evaded tax, now you arevbacktracking as you were 100% incorrect.

The fact you are not reading my posts before responding is quite odd. I said I had paper trail for everything except spark supplies. What are you not understanding about this?

You are comprehending copyright or my post incorrectly, if I had built same house as plans I saw, that would be copyright, I didn't build the same house, both bungalows, you can hang on my use of word similar in earlier post but i literally didnt copy anything from other house, not 1 measurement, therefore not copyright. You are trying to dig me out to prove your incorrect point so you are ignoring most aspects of my post.

You say In 1 post implied at me defects could be caused because I had not full construction drawings, now you are saying i copied construction drawings from another planning so did I have them or didn't I in your world?

We will not agree on this, I know I didn't copy a single measurement and have paper trail for all cash except spark supplies, but saw his invoice from kellihers. I get what you are saying on pitfalls but it doesn't apply to my build.

Just trying to highlight its possible to build much cheaper then using contractors and yes you are right, many pitfalls that you have to be aware of but it should be encouraged for people to self mange builds more.