Couples on 107K can’t afford a home

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122675221#Comment_122675221

I suppose the opposite side of that is that one can't help feel sympathy for those that peaked in their early 20's. The ones who were just smarter and more hardworking back then ……………….. yet despite having both those personal advantages and getting the financial headstart ….. they haven't done much else since ………

ArthurDayne

I'm not sure that even this thread is really capturing the sheer extent of the problem out there right now. I note that we are talking about a benchmark of combined income of €107k here but — and this is by no means a brag, more just to illustrate — my partner and I have a combined income of €140k and we have struggled to save the deposit and afford to buy a decent home (noting that I'm tied to being at least somewhat close to Dublin for work). It's been a 2 year process for us since we initially decided to move in with a parent (I was 31 at that point) to help us save, which also involved a daily driving round trip of 3-4 hours which eventually broke both of our spirits and we went back to renting a tiny box apartment in Dublin more to save us from mental breakdown than anything else. That has meant that — aside from one weekend away in the West — we haven't taken a holiday of any sort in well over a year. We go for a drink the odd time, never eat out really, and yes — we make our own coffee and only have one streaming subscription.

Even after all that, we still struggled on the market. The bidding wars for any house that isn't in need of major upgrades are insane right now — houses are now pretty much going 50k to 100k over asking price routinely. We weren't getting any younger and we want to move on with our lives — so even after thinking we had done OK with saving — we had to go on a scrounge mission to family to afford to go sale agreed on a house at 55k over asking.

And I know we are privileged to have the income we have, and privileged to have parents who are by no means wealthy but were able to give us what we needed. But the point is even those young people who are buying right now can't actually afford to in their own right. Many of them, even higher earners, are relying on generosity either through being given a place to stay for free (if you're lucky enough to have that option) or by large gifts from parents. And that's sadly only fuelling the bidding wars — an entirely unregulated phenomenon in which a generation of young buyers are competing and driving up eachothers lifetime debts.

The social contract is in tatters, but ultimately the people of power and influence in society are almost invariably homeowners and their own children probably somewhat sheltered from the struggle.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122675777#Comment_122675777

Doesn't make much sense.

Can't recall if banks are doing 4x now but lets call it 3.5 X combined.

That gives you a potential mortgage of 490k.

Lets assume on average houses go 50k above asking.

So looking in the bracket aprox 440k

Gives you about 1500 hits on just 1 site and in Dublin alone.

This is before tapping up the parents.

The results include brand new builds. e.g. doesn't need any work etc.

This pretty much sums up the article as a whole.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676082#Comment_122676082

Tell me you haven't been in the market for a house in the last 2 years without telling me.

There's 2 beds in Crumlin going for 500k+. Run down houses in Poppintree selling for 485k, you're extremely lucky if your bidding war ends 50k over asking price, majority are 70-100k over.

You really haven't a clue of the market, my own parents were the same until they saw what was available to us with a max budget of 420k, they were disgusted by the market and the bidding wars ongoing.

You're just resorting to over used nonsensical stereotypes about coffee and avocados as if they're the reason young people are struggling to buy a house.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676140#Comment_122676140

Really?

I'm seeing lovely houses in Crumlin for aprox 270k

Are you suggesting these houses are going 200k over asking?

Lets assume it goes 100k which would seem fairly odd for Crumlin.

You get it for 370k

120k below your max draw down potential.

Something doesn't add up.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676165#Comment_122676165

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-277-cashel-road-crumlin-crumlin-dublin-12/5852363

There's a 275k house, needs to be gutted top to bottom if you can get someone in to do the work that is. House will still sell for well over 275 though.

You aren't in this market, you have no actual experience, you think you can do a Google and show all us youngsters up because a search gave you a result you liked and we enjoy some coffees.

You're not worth even debating with, people across other threads have and it's always the same. You're right, everyone else is wrong, end of.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676237#Comment_122676237

280k

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-62-bangor-road-d12-f1p0-crumlin-dublin-12/5787622

lick of paint and she's flying.

I'm not buying my first house, you're correct.

But always in the market.

The post which you decided to enter the debate on. Clearly shows why the article is rubbish.

So if you don't want to enter a discussion then don't start one with me.

The poster has 490k before tapping up the parents.

What might be true.

Is they can't afford to buy specific houses in specific areas.

As it is for most people all the time.

But they can afford to buy a home.

As can the couple on 107k buy a home and people on a lot less buy homes all the time.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676082#Comment_122676082

I think your comment perfectly demonstrates the issue here as to how alienated many people are in this country to the reality of what is actually occurring. You have just been given the first hand account of a first time buyer — albeit anecdotal, but I have no reason to lie — and instead of engaging with it, you choose to more or less dismiss it. And without trying to have a go at you, that's precisely the problem with the policy in this country — people just don't get it because they aren't living it.

You seem to have deduced, from presumably a search of Daft, that loads of properties would be available to us— and you seem to also be acting on the assumption that asking prices are reliable. This simply is not a reality. Even basic enough houses are regularly going 100k over asking. I viewed a house recently which was up at €485k asking. Latest bid when I last checked was €635,000, which included one person making an offer that was €50k over the previous one.

This is in conjunction with the fact that interest rates — while creeping downwards — are still relatively very high, forcing young buyers into the double whammy of wiping out all savings on a deposit and then being stuck with massively high repayment amounts for decades to come. And this is all because of historical and ongoing failures to tackle the problem at a policy level — from construction itself all the way to exploitative practices in selling.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676308#Comment_122676308

Even if we accept houses are going 200k over asking

I can still find a heap of houses that require little to no work inside a 490k budget without tapping up the parents. Including your self inflicted restrictions.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676308#Comment_122676308

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/110-adamstown-avenue-adamstown-lucan-county-dublin/4806185

According to the Price Property Register, this went for €356k.

https://raycooke.ie/properties/148-north-road-finglas-dublin-11/

This one in Finglas went for €393k off an asking price of €349.

These are all in the last couple of weeks.

limnam

The irony of it all. by tapping up your parents. You're fueling the fire you're looking to put out!

Couldn't make it up.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676406#Comment_122676406

Again, I don't understand why you're saying "even if we accept it" as regards what you are being told when you are literally being told it by people who have first hand experience of what it's like in the market for first time buyers right now. You seem to think that your desktop research more or less refutes the existence or severity of the problems that are being spelled out to you and which are also spelled out in statistical analysis as to the collapse in availability of homes, which hit a 17 year low this year and is below half of what it was pre-Covid (https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41360914.html).

Seemingly, your search has somehow enabled you to make a definitive judgement as to what work is required to a property by merely looking at the lovely pictures that the estate agent has thrown up online to sell it. A search on Daft does not tell you the full story about any property, the bidding around it, or the reasons why a certain property at a [nominally] OK price isn't selling even in this market. By your determination though, it seems to be only because of self inflicted restrictions and that first time buyers seemingly should not morally be allowed to have preferences that are fairly universal across all society — or else they're just stuck up brats.

But sure...what would I know? I'm just a first time buyer with lived experience of navigating the current market and bidding on properties versus you, with your in-depth market analysis completed via a search on Daft.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676566#Comment_122676566

You seem to be having an issue reading the post.

I said even if we accept "200k" that's 100k more than you suggested. I can still find a heap of homes to come in under 490k

What I'm doing there is taken off 200k of your spending power and looking in the 290k range. This gives you 200k to play with and I still have no issues finding places that come in under budget.

So the argument that 490k can't buy a home doesn't hold any water.

There's a huge difference in not been able to afford a home and not been able to afford a home that tick all my boxes.

Your "4 eva" home or "dream home"

But I can't buy a home with 490k without tapping up the parents. Is complete BS. Much like the original article.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669526#Comment_122669526

"Throw in the crazy amount of money the Garda CU just gave me over the years"
"They wanted something like €450 a week"

Seriously dude? They just kept giving you money and you just kept spending it without any thoughts on how you could pay it back or clearly not afford it?

I think the simple fact is that you managed "your" money terribly and are now stuck because of it.
No government decisions are going to get around this and result in you living in a place of your own, nor should they IMO.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676665#Comment_122676665

Always someone else's fault

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676612#Comment_122676612

The line of argument you're pursuing is just unbelievably facetious, and this is not forgetting the fact that you are still — somewhat comically — seemingly basing your entire analytical reasoning on banging a search into Daft. That's it — without any further context on the condition of the properties or on the potential slew of reasons why various properties haven't sold at the price sought even in the current market — you have exposed the crisis for the non-existent spectre that it truly is, because you did a search on Daft.

You then go on to once again portray the issue as a self-imposed crisis by referring to "4eva homes" — seemingly on the belief that having any form of preference or being put off by any feature of a house that you are being asked to incur years of high debts on is proof that the crisis is self imposed.

Many first time buyers are more or less in a position where they have to take a long term view when buying now — because the market is red hot and the fear of negative equity is a rational, reasonable fear. They want to buy homes that they can start a family in and possibly keep a family in for many years to come. Making this out to be "4eva home" thinking is just stupid — this isn't a palace we are talking about, but a place to raise a family.

But yeah sorry, I guess that makes them brats and the housing crisis is fake news.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122676430#Comment_122676430

Can I ask what you are trying to demonstrate here?

The first property is a 2 bed duplex in Adamstown. My sister lives in that area and just before Covid bought a new 4 bed house there for only about 40k more than that (4 beds in Adamstown now command an asking price in the mid 500s to 600s) — so you're demonstrating firstly that in an extremely short span of time, what would have gotten you close to a 4 bed home perfect for raising a family on a long term basis in that area would now get you a 2 bed duplex that your family will outgrow in no time and let's just hope at that stage you aren't going to be selling at a loss.

The second house you put up is in one of the more deprived regions of Dublin and will always be less attractive to buyers and go at lower prices — and that's before we even consider the fact that this is actually a relatively high price for a 3 bed terraced house in Finglas and demonstrates how utterly rapidly the market has heated since pre-Covid.

And I currently rent just beside Tolka Valley Park so I'm no stranger to Finglas.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122686454#Comment_122686454

Comparing to 2020 in absolute terms is ignoring the significant inflation in that time period. The median wage is up almost 30% since 2020. Obviously house prices are going to have gone way up.

Anyone waiting for 2020 prices to return are going to be extremely disappointed.

Dr Robert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122686878#Comment_122686878

They'll definitely return. Whenever, who knows, but it'll happen.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122688494#Comment_122688494

How many times in the last 100 or so years have house prices fallen 30% in nominal terms? Once?

I’d suggest the likelihood is incredibly small in reality but, who knows..

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122686429#Comment_122686429

What a load of clap trap.

The point is fairly straight forward. You're the one adding "feels" into it.

The original article, you know. The point of the thread is couples on 107k can't afford a home.

This is not true.

Not been able to buy a home with a spending power of 490k without tapping up parents.

Is not true.

Anything else is nonsense.

Again, what might be true. Is you can't afford to buy a specific type of house or buy in a specific area.

But that's an entirely different discussion.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122689927#Comment_122689927

Ir really depends where you are buying. The median house price in Longford this summer was 170k.

The median house price in DLR, the wealthiest council in the country and with a population of 240,000 people, which is larger than Cork and Limerick cities combined, is 630k.

A couple on 107k, even with a 30% deposit, couldnt afford a median priced house in DLR.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122689954#Comment_122689954

Covered in the "Again, what might be true. Is you can't afford to buy a specific type of house or buy in a specific area." section.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122692321#Comment_122692321

Then shouldnt the thread be titled "Couples on 107k cant afford to buy in expensive parts of the country", as they clearly can afford to buy in many counties on that salary.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122688494#Comment_122688494

There'll be another economic crash. There'll be another world war. There'll be another sun in our solar system going super nova and obliterating everything.

Unless you can actually put a date on a prediction, statements like this are meaningless. Most things will always eventually happen in some form or another.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122688494#Comment_122688494

If you expect salaries to maintain current levels when house prices drop to pre 2020 levels then I would strongly disagree with that expectation