Couples on 107K can’t afford a home

thatsdaft

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41455573.html

Figure 3.1 puts a single (or a couple taxunit) at 78K back in 2022 (last report) in top 10% of richest people in Ireland by earnings

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2022/distributionofearnings/

IMHO our tax system taxes what clearly is “middle” class too much

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364493/couples-on-107k-can-t-afford-a-home

Nothing new. It has carried forward from Bertie's days, were his policy was to remove the lower paid from the tax net. This is not the norm for EU countries, were most workers pay a small percentage of tax.

weisses

Meanwhile

Population growth exceeds new homes by almost four to one, according to analysis by property advisor Savills Ireland

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505551#Comment_122505551

My prescription is due for renewal soon. Yesterday I rang 12 different doctors surgeries in about a 50km radius asking for an appointment and every single one of them said "we are not taking on new patients at this time". I asked a few if they had a waiting list most said no, one said they do, but they had been told to stop giving out the form to go on the waiting list. I felt like asking is there a waiting list to go on the waiting list.

Apparently anyone making the claim that Ireland is full makes you a far right sympathizer.

I am far from being right wing, but lack of affordable homes and lack of doctors appointments, in another thread there is a discussion on a lack of school placements. Surely we need to start talking at a national level about the fact we no longer have the room for the people who want to come here?

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505610#Comment_122505610

You should phone Joe about it.

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505610#Comment_122505610

Not going to happen as long as we are in the EU. The EU as a whole is suffering population decline (who's going to pay the pensions concern).

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20231121-4

While you have Germany in such a predicament Ireland isn't going to get EU policy changed. IF you really want to get your borders under control you're going to have to leave the EU. It's a rock and a hard place dilemma. I think Ireland IS taking in too many people, but being in the EU is vital to Ireland's future, so it's the lesser of two "evils", imo.

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505610#Comment_122505610

BTW, who wrote your last prescription?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505551#Comment_122505551

When the only solution the property seeking voters are willing to accept is one in which they get to own a house, while simultaneously property owning voters are unwilling to accept any solution that involves the reduction of house prices resulting in them going into negative, progress on addressing the issue is very limited.

Beta Ray Bill

In other news…. water is wet….

Seriously though, we all know this is 30+ years in the making.

Appalling policy and planning across the board.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364493/couples-on-107k-can-t-afford-a-home

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505551#Comment_122505551

Vested interests fear mongering to stoke the property porn bubble.

Have we not seen this movie?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_estate

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505661#Comment_122505661

Webdoctor.ie, which is what I'll do again this time, but it would be nice to get a face to face and if necessary refer me to a specialist, rather than being on pills perpetually.

Not going to happen as long as we are in the EU. The EU as a whole is suffering population decline (who's going to pay the pensions concern).

The EU is tightening its immigration policies, but we hear every day that the chink in the armour seems to be Dublin Airport where people arrive with no documents and are still let in.

Failings to enforce current laws, hmm, where have I heard of that before?

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505675#Comment_122505675

I know, I know… can't help it, but…

Water isn't wet.

emo72

Social contract is beyond broken, it's smashed to smithereens. Eventually a new right leaning party will evolve. As peoples quality of life erodes, it's inevitable. Population is increasing to almost 4 people for every new available home that comes available. FFG are probably delighted that they are still in pole position and can't understand how there's not much more push back. There will be.

Greengrass53

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505610#Comment_122505610

Go to the doctor that wrote your last one and spare us the melodrama

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505694#Comment_122505694

I will give you a response next tuesday. In the meantime, you can enjoy my ignore list. You will be in good company.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505690#Comment_122505690

There will be no push back unless the property market collapses as there are too many snouts in the trough. And the big worry then is that those that are prudent and those who believe in fairness will have to bail out the people who were partying, again. Property and greed is the only show in town at the moment.

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505688#Comment_122505688

There are significant fines placed on airlines for letting people in without proper documents and increasingly onerous. So, not sure how that happens.

Webdoctor is handy alright, try and get a virtual appointment maybe. They do more than repeat prescriptions and SHOULD provide what's required to give you a proper assessment or decline to treat you. Maybe ask them if there's one of their doctors close to you available to see you in person. Worth a shot. Good luck.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505690#Comment_122505690

The social construct is destroyed and the idea of the State as a backstop to support the people, that a nation has an obligation of care to it's people and vice versa is now considered toxic and it is the left that are cheering it on.

baldbear

Absolute nonsense. It will take lots of time etc but of course you can buy on that salary. People will have to make lots of compromises though. Donaghmede gaff instead of a Howth gaff etc.

Avatar in the Post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505690#Comment_122505690

4 people per new home (4 to 1 as reported) is sensationalising. That assumes there is a home requirement per person, which is false. There's close to 3 people per home in reality.

Careful what you wish for. A right wing government might try to reduce immigrants (how's the US doing?), but they also tend to reduce social welfare… not the type of people to build homes for people.

emo72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505708#Comment_122505708

Snouts in the trough are happy, but they are not the only ones with an interest here.

I'd say the pressure is building with parents watching their adult children growing old in box rooms. And eventually the penny will drop, FFG are not actually interested in their children's well-being.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505678#Comment_122505678

You're not wrong.

But I think there's an unusual demographic with regard to residential stock.

None of it makes sense to me:

Like the number of vacant dwellings is high(ish), long term vacant is around 48k property's (This is in 2022 now)
https://www.cso.ie/en/census/census2022/census2022andvacantdwellingsfaq/

20% of landlords now own over 100 property's

There are lots of people "sitting" on property's.

Building costs are through the roof, developers claiming they make no money, yet sell an entire block of apartments to a rental company for below what they'd get for them if they sold them to individuals.

I think it must be case of the wrong type of home in the wrong place, or perhaps a cart before the horse approach regarding the economy.

Everyone migrating here to work, wants to work for a multinational in Dublin. None of those people want to live in an estate is the back end of Roscommon or Carlow, to far away, impossible to commute, as the rail infra just isn't there (and never will be might I add)

Sure even the prisons are jammed!

LambshankRedemption

None of those people want to live in an estate is the back end of Roscommon

Funnily enough I live in an estate in Roscommon. I'm happy out here, now if only I could find a Doctors appointment.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505730#Comment_122505730

Cue the boomers regaling tales of how they went over to London for one Summer when they were 19 and stayed in a group house and slept on mattresses on sitting room floors surrounded by empty cans of beer from their sessions, and then asking why can 30-something professional couples these days not just link up with another 30-something professional couple and buy a 2-bed apartment between them.

Furze99

This report today that population growth exceeds house supply by 4:1 should be of great concern to every voter. If it doesn't affect you now, it very likely as sure as hell will soon enough.

In our case, we have children ranging from early 20s to early 30s. With very little hope of obtaining a place like we were able to do 30 years ago. They even find it hard to obtain rentable accommodation.

This needs an urgent twin track approach: increase housing supply and reduce population growth. One is no good without the other. And anyone who says it is, is deceiving you.

Meanwhile like Lambo's situation above, I'm about half way through a wait for an appointment with local GP - 2 months. And we've been on their books for 30 years. It used to be 2 days.

GreenPanda99

I know lots of people earning far less than 107k that are buying homes now. That article is clearly clickbait.

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standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364493/couples-on-107k-can-t-afford-a-home

Has to be one of the laziest pieces of 'research' I've ever read. Most of these homes must be lying empty if earners in the top 10% can't afford one.

Taking the basic salaries of a Garda and a nurse (how stereotypical) is also a joke, they're on way more than that, would walk into a mortgage, so are most likely the ones settling into their 'unaffordable' home right now.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505866#Comment_122505866

That's the case with some couples obviously. But if you have a couple who are paying exorbitant rents then they might not be able to save a deposit. 107k is the gross figure not the net.

Long term renters should be entitled to borrow 5 times in excess of their salary. Their mortgage payments will be substantially less than their rent payments but for some bizarre reason we don't take this into account.

The system at the moment is designed to prop up mega landlords and pension funds. That's Fine Gaels policy.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505894#Comment_122505894

What are the salaries for a garda and nurse with 5 years service?

Francie Barrett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505690#Comment_122505690

Yep, the social contract has been wrecked.

The 40% tax rate kicks in at just €42k, the all-in tax rate (income tax + PRSI + USC) of 52% kicks in not far above that.

We've young people who are not on big money getting killed with ridiculous marginal rates of tax while still not being able to afford to buy a home.

While the government takes in record tax revenue, it's also launched record government spending. The 30 something year old higher rate taxpayer who can't even afford to buy a gaff sees little benefit though.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505866#Comment_122505866

Bank of Mam and Dad
I know people that earn around 120k combined and somehow managed to buy a property for €700k…

It also depends on what the expectation is on the people buying.
IE if you can only buy a one bed apartment as a couple earning €107k you may declare you cannot buy a home as that 1 bed apartment is below what your expectation is and you're not prepared to live there.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505896#Comment_122505896

All that's going to do is push house prices up further. Absolutely guaranteed if it goes up to 5 x salary then demand for housing for sale will increase and so will price

mikep

I expect this report refers to new homes, but it doesn't seem clear.

I live in Tipp. Currently 298 properties less than 400 k

237 less than 300k

Is everyone looking for a new build??

Greengrass53

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505866#Comment_122505866

Absolute twaddle to feed the bigots who will gobble it up and spew it out at the golf club to the applause of their deeply concerned peers.

GreenPanda99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505947#Comment_122505947

No only is is confined to new homes. Its confined to new build 3 bed semi-ds.

Cherry picked for results that generate clicks.

Greengrass53

Bionn an fhirinne searbh. Lambshank.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505947#Comment_122505947

I think so, there is very little 2nd hand stock, and also the work involved in renovations puts people off as labour prices are mental.

Like I know "Tilers" looking for €400+ a day, tiling was never an apprenticeship on it's own.

The days of DIY are coming to an end, I worked with lads that would hire a handyman to put a nail in a wall…..

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505909#Comment_122505909

I think the point is that the hypothetical couple on 107k with the specified deposit ready cannot get enough of a mortgage to purchase the average house. It's irrelevant whether profession X or Y actually earns more. Pick whatever combination of couple you want that gets you to 107k.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505939#Comment_122505939

That's what we keep hearing. I also think that the argument of increasing supply will bring prices down is nonsense. Developers are greedy.

We need more affordable housing. It's a bad state when Gardai, Civil Servants and teachers can't afford to buy even though they have permanent contracts.

We also need to build decent apartments for people who want to downsize. Our current approach to throwing up terrible apartments isn't working.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506003#Comment_122506003

That's the problem, it's entirely hypothetical, and yes they could have picked any profession but deliberately chose Garda and nurse purely for clickbait. And as can be seen we already have people proclaiming shur it's a terrible state of affairs that a poor Garda and nurse can't afford a home.

Maybe the SCSI could do some proper research and find the average earnings of those who are actually buying these homes, instead of dreaming up John and Mary and declaring that they can't. It's all nonsense.

billie1b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505712#Comment_122505712

The airlines aren't being fined because the people are boarding at the other end with passports/documents and then flushing them or ripping them up and putting them in the bin before landing or in the airport toikets. I can tell you it us happening, everyday, multiple times a day

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506076#Comment_122506076

And yet Ryanair say they make copies when presented with documents on boarding, so it really doesn't matter what flushing goes on.

ELM327

Clickbait nonsense. Our household unit income is just a little over that and we have bought 2 properties in the last 6 years.

Viscount Aggro

If said couples wanted to buy a property badly enough, they could do it.

Both move back home for a year or two, no rent, subsistence living… go hardcore with saving money. You only see the inside of a restaurant if you are working in it.

They could put away 60K a year.

Its more a case of "cant = wont"

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506075#Comment_122506075

Well you pick your own two specific friends who together might take home 107k between them, imagine them as a couple with a 10% deposit, and then conclude that they wouldn't get a mortgage to buy that average house, if it makes it easier to have a less hypothetical example.

billie1b

Yes, copies to prove they were given the documents to board the aircraft but the government won't accept copies as proof when the person requests undocumented migrant, they want physical passports/documents, so the person is granted their undocumented status even though the airline has proof of a passport. Aer Lingus do the same too by the way.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506010#Comment_122506010

All businesses are greedy. Why people think housing alone will suddenly break from the supply and demand model requires some evidence - of which there is none. There is however masses of counter-evidence.

Building more reduces house prices and reduces rents. We just don't build enough.

jo187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505610#Comment_122505610

I was told by some in the hse if you are rejected by 3 gp in your area for these reasons thr hse will provide a GP for you.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506159#Comment_122506159

I will follow that up but wont hold my breathe.