Paper stole photo

Woodcutting

A newspaper used a photo of mine and have so far refused to pay. Only a small payment I don't care much about it but in principle I don't want them to get away with it. They are a shower of ****' taking pictures from amateurs

Can I take legal action and will they have to pay costs as well?

Any other ideas. They used one before and I had to kick up a row to get paid. Row doesn't seem to work this time. Also I prefer they not use my photos again. How to achieve this, couldn't be bothered arguing for the pittance they pay.

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364029/paper-stole-photo

do you use a matermark on your pictures?

HorseSea

You shouldn't have to watermark your photos, newspapers should know better.

Just sent an invoice and if it's not paid, try small claims court.

Is is a freebie paper or a regular newspaper? Where did they take the photo from and what licencing (if any) was attached?

Woodcutting

Don't think small claim court applies?

Woodcutting

@ HorseSea

Regular not free paper

They were told last time not to use it again without paying.

the_amazing_raisin

How did they get the photo in the first place? Anything on social media is basically in the public domain and free for anyone to use

If it came from a website or blog owned by you which includes a copyright notice then you may have some legal way to claim compensation

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495119#Comment_122495119

Is this the same photo they've used twice? Are you certain you did not give them a licence to reuse the image when they paid you the first time?

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495127#Comment_122495127

That's a common misconception about social media and the public domain, but it's not actually true.

Publishing something on social media doesn't mean you automatically relinquish the creator's copyright. If it did, then any photo by a professional photojournalist which finds its way onto a newspaper's Facebook page would be fair game for the whole world to use. And you'd never see that notice on Twitter/X along the lines of "This video has been removed due to a copyright claim by the owner".

Woodcutting

Yrs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495141#Comment_122495141

Yes. I kicked up a row last time and got paid and told them not to use it again without payment.

They have been told several times not to use it without payment and that each use incurs a fee. The payment is a joke anyway but it is the principle I am concerned about. They are a pretty low bunch really.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495306#Comment_122495306

Where/how did they get the photo?

endofrainbow

Solicitor's letter?

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495410#Comment_122495410

Ah come on, why not just go for high court.

You're talking €50 or so.

As the op said it's the principle not the money.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058364029/paper-stole-photo

Do they acknowledge/agree that it is your transaction?

And (as others ask) how did they get it?

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495428#Comment_122495428

That's the problem it would cost more for the letter than the payment Hence my question would they be made to pay costs? Or can I decide the payment if I take legal action.

Furze99

You won't get much anywhere with this. The best thing (assuming you can prove the allegation) is to name & shame and let them take the reputational hit. You can do that openly and/or just mention to all your acquaintances. Local hire place did me once, refused to deal with their fraud and they lost a heap more business because of it than the few bob involved.

GBX

Did they access the photo from your website or where did they retrieve it from?

GreeBo

How do I go about suing the OP for waste of my time?

Consistently failing to answer the most basic question of "where did they get it from"

Claw Hammer

Complain to the Press Council.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498896#Comment_122498896

Why does it matter? Lets say the OP posted the photo on Facebook - do they lose the copyright on the photo? No, they granted Facebook a licence to reproduce it. The copyright stays with the OP.

Unless the OP uploaded it to a site which explicitly licences images to third parties (e.g. https://www.pexels.com/ - and I'm assuming the OP would know if they did that), the OP holds the copyright, and has every right to be paid for it.

Unfortunately, the cost of chasing up such a claim is likely to outweigh any potential award

Woodcutting

It's irrelevant how they got it they knew they had no right to use it. They were told the last time they were made to pay that any further use would require payment and were told before they ever got it that it was not free.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499211#Comment_122499211

The OP would know if they did that. But we wouldn't, unless the OP tells us. Which is why "where did the newspaper get the photo from?' is a relevant question, and a reasonable one to ask.

Not saying anything about the OP in this thread, but there is a noticeable phenomenon on Boards of people asking for advice or opinions, but only giving the facts which will tend to support the opinion they hope to hear. They're looking for reassurance that the view they hold, or want to hold, is correct. Guys, if you want to get advice or opinions that will actually be of any use to you, as opposed to just comforting you, you need to give all the relevant facts and circumstances, including the inconvenient ones and the ones that tell against you.

HorseSea

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499490#Comment_122499490

It's not, that is why it was asked multiple times.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499211#Comment_122499211

You actually answer your own question about why it matters.

It's a long shot, but if OP did upload it to a site like pexels.com and the newspaper took it from there, that would be significantly different to the newspaper taking it from Facebook or similar.

It would mean the newspaper wasn't actually obliged to pay the OP after first usage, and also that OP wouldn't be entitled to tell them not to use it again, since he/she had made it available on a royalty-free stock photo site, such that anybody in the world could use it in any way they saw fit, and as often as they liked.

Again, it's a long shot, but until or unless we're told otherwise, it's still a possibility.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501635#Comment_122501635

I don't ever make images available on royalty free sites or free sites.

Woodcutting

It is. Just because it was asked several times does not make it relevant

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499193#Comment_122499193

Yes I will if necessary. They have to be notified and respond in two weeks. I will notify them soon.

Woodcutting

Thanks for replies everyone

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502032#Comment_122502032

That's okay, then. I note you still don't actually answer the question about where they instead got it from, but you've ruled out the possibility that it may have been from a place that they were actually entitled to take it from anyway.

Van Doozy

I had my photos printed in national papers without permission a few years ago. What bothered me was the fact that they were of a friend who had been in an accident. It was as if I'd sold the papers the pictures. It was a really shi tty thing for the papers to do.

Anyway I saw advice on a similar boards thread to just whack in invoices, and not to be too cheap with the price. Someone helpfully pm'd me typical rates and a sample invoice, and the addresses, I doubled the guide amount and sent them in, they all paid up without question.

Markus Antonius

Whats the best method of approaching newspapers? I got a few diamonds this year of the partial eclipse and northern lights. I sent heavily watermarked photos to about 5 or 6 different papers but got no responses. Guess they just weren't interested.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499211#Comment_122499211

It matters because if an OP refuses to answer a relevant question when asked multiple times its usually a good indication that they might not be sincere.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502217#Comment_122502217

Used to work in the newspaper industry myself, so can tell you that as regards actually approaching them with photos, there's not much more you can do. But I can also tell you the following:

• Generally speaking, a regional paper won't pay for individual photos from what's essentially a member of the public. They'd probably give you a photo byline all right, but no payment. That's how it would operate where I worked myself.
• National papers are unlikely to use them either. They prefer to use pics from either their own staff photographers or from an agency.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502217#Comment_122502217

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502217#Comment_122502217

The best way is to let them know in a covering email they are copyright protected and there is a fee for each use

Also fill in the relevant fields in the image exif data. If you don't they may argue you submitted them to be used without payment. That is why I made sure they knew they were not free and got a acknowledgement to this in writing.

Have you tried the examiner.? They often have a large photo on the back page. In my experience papers won't reply and won't tell you if they use it and or use it again. You have to watch the papers

Edit: sorry quoted you twice, thought it hadn't worked first time

Woodcutting

@Markus Antonius

Was the watermark all over the image? I wouldn't watermark. If it's at the bottom they can crop and if all over may not bother contacting you

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502786#Comment_122502786

Watermark was right on sweetspot of each image. Any newspaper I sent images to had explanations on their sites on how to submit images (i.e. adding the exif metadata) all of these instructions were followed. I guess they just get too many shots from their own photographers or submitted by readers. Really thought the partial eclipse one would get some interest as images of this were not common given the cloud cover over much of the country and general difficulty in getting a good shot.

John_Rambo

There's no way papers would entertain watermarked imagery with costings for the hi res, non marked images. They'll use freebies sent in, agencies or their own press photographers but they wouldn't start paying for noncommissioned work. Look at the majority of shots of murderers these days, lifted from social media profiles.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122495306#Comment_122495306

So this is a photo you have already received payment for… Then the question becomes what did you sell them? The photo, the right to one use, the exclusive right of use while retaining ownership and what can you prove.

My brother in law is a well known international photographer and every time I talk to him he seems to be in a battle with some media organisation over this stuff. And even though he hires the lawyers he seems to loose a lot of the time.

Woodcutting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122506724#Comment_122506724

They knew it was pay per use. That’s amazing re your brother in law. On what basis does he lose, he would surely know the law?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507191#Comment_122507191

What do you mean they knew, do you have a written document?

Knowing the law is one thing, but going through the courts and winning is another. Most of these organisations have big legal departments so their costs per case are low. He just hopes that he can either annoy them enough that they pay him or buy something else without admitting liability for the actual infraction. Otherwise he just moves on.

Woodcutting

I got paid. I threatened press council and threatened to write to all their advertisers and say I won't support them while they advertise in that paper. Also said I would drive around with x paper stole my photo sign on my car window

Thanks everyone

Woodcutting

@Markus Antonius

I would also suggest reading the terms and conditions on the paper's website if you haven't already . Some sayany thing submitted becomes theirs to use as they wish at no cost, or similar words.

I will be adding to my covering email that I don't accept any such terms and that any use of my images is under my terms.

This is not legal advice but I will be doing I.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122573386#Comment_122573386

Good man!! How much did they shell out?