Exited Suckler Cows

Rusheseverywhere

Got out of cows in April. Definitely glad I did. Felt relief to be honest they are just too much work and no life with them.

Cost of straw in organics to keep cows and calves also insane. Kinda lost interest in farming too since- stepped back and realised what a waste most of my farming was and in general it all is. Advice I would give is have a dispersal sale in local mart and nothing else. I sold to 2 lads one delayed picking up cows for nearly a month as he was out of fodder. Rest went to a neighbour who had me calve them down. (That not part of deal orginally but also he had fodder/shed space issues) had a caserean and lost cow, vet got in time etc, first time ever happened and it was my tough luck. Annoyed the hell out of me. Most lads I know in sucklers getting out or cutting way down. Going ahead handy dry stock for me and seriously thinking of selling up. Aload of money tied up in land that is making nothing.

Silverdream

Sounds like the exit didn't go well. Selling private is a pain, between lonely hearts ringing up with no interest in buying, lads that ring and say they'll be there at a time or date and then never turn up, not even a text to let you know not to expect them. Lads that want to take the stock and pay later!! it's just not worth it.

Good few empty farms about now, meadows been sold or given away for free. Not too many takers, as the cost of bales of unfertilised weed feed does not pay to make them. Suckler farming has become a real loss making exercise, when you factor in all the costs and hassle. Slurry, Bales, Fertiliser, sprays, maintenance of Tractor, sheds, fencing drains etc and then factor in angry suckler cows, stone mad calves. Then the piss poor prices for the average Weanling.

It's madness, which I think is gradually coming to an end.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463205#Comment_122463205

it’s a hobby for a lot, especially those with an off farm income.

cute geoge

Some hobby ,trying to work and calve cows .Sounds more like hell to me.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463272#Comment_122463272

A vocation indeed. I have a tiny little 12-16 Limo cow herd. For the most part breed to be quiet. I enjoy the bit of physical work (though it does detract from family times sometimes) but equally adds to family time when I am out the fields with the young lad examining how many flys on are on a cow shite 😀. It’s a hobby that turns a few pound (could maybe turn the same if leased out and have no work….but what the **** works I do all evening and weekend).

The more that exit the better for me as my U grade weanlings be more and more in demand.

Water John

Having given up the sucklers a few years ago, I can sympathise. Don't think there's a single answer. For me, developing my interest in regenerative agriculture has given me a positive outcome. One can now keep the various payments on very low stocking, if that's what a person wishes to do. Remember too there are others who have followed the great advice and increased largely the dairy herd, also the debt and the workload and find it difficult now to unwind that threadmill.

TinyMuffin

I’m the only 1 in the locality with suckler cows. Calved 55 this spring and hope to do the same next spring plus 25 heifers that have been with the bull. Uncle got out of sucklers 5 years ago and buys the best weanlings I’d have for top dollar. Lots around here buy good weanlings and someone has to breed them. Nothing nicer than walking through cows and calves happy out grazing. Although I had a dead cow Tuesday morning.

baxterooneydoody

The reality is the off farm jobs are what's keeping farmers going in a lot of cases, the sooner lads understand hobby farming does nothing only make young men old and cripples the better off they'll be. If you can earn a living without working farm, more power to you but it looks like the future is feed lots and a numbers game

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463287#Comment_122463287

that’s me exactly. I won’t be giving up the sucklers any time soon but I don’t mind hearing others giving them up either.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463764#Comment_122463764

There's no calf born on a feedlot.

Austinbrick

Some honest opinions there!

We're exiting sucklers at the minute.decided last year .started by not getting them back in calf. Though we have 1 new suckler since!! (A sold heifer turned up in calf....we bought her back and she calved a nice w head on May 2nd.

19 sucklers. 10 left. SOLD 5 at the mart. All Wheads not ready for factory. Another 4 factory fit shorthorn went for killing.

9 left to sell. 2 are lovely cows plenty good for breeding.1 is a cracking 3 Yr old shorthorn but I think I'll just leave them off together .(as oppose to looking for a buyer) Mart and factory again in a few weeks.Will give them nuts to push them on .

Underfertilized weed feed ! Good point Silver Dream.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463969#Comment_122463969

Hence the numbers game

Austinbrick

One of my brothers had the same opinion as some of ye. To keep them when everyone is exiting.

Like others in the comments, main jobs are off farm and we are busy with families and sport as well.

Plus. There will be more shed space and less bales needed.

Will miss calves being born on the farm alright. For the hour or 2 after birth, that gave great job satisfaction. But Silverdream definitely balances out that out with her raw comments about suckler farming.

Rusheseverywhere

Definitely Mart for dispersal nearly my main point in posting and also had said some other threading intended for out just let lads know how went. Few other points raise as people in the game know it without me pontificating.

TB : went down before 2 once short and the other a full year down. Going down with TB and 60 weanlings to sell was a disaster. Back in my area and with the spread of it in general a big risk for a suckler man.

U grade they are all out I will be grand in a few years: IMO no shortage of U grade bull weanlings, any suckler man bar an AA man not producing U grade is at nothing. Often had 450kg bull weanlings, double muscled all the rest and they are too big good for the shippers and lads at home reckon too hard finished. They will be wrong colour, tight skinned, hairy not hairy etc. Producing U grade heifers not simple and lots of hassle. Also I think the days of exporting live weanlings prob coming to an end too.

Help alot people on here at sucklers probably pulling put of family members to help calve. I was by myself and just impossible to manage it wore me out anyway.

Vaccines medicine need with suckler cows I used BVD, Lepto, Corona, IBR, RSP, Bovicox, Halcour if needed etc , I prob rare in using many as did but schemes coming will require alot of those I thinl k

IBR eradication programme prob coming and it will be a nightmare if half your cows have it.

patsy_mccabe

Some lads just can't handle hardship. 😀

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464880#Comment_122464880

I am Slow not Thick!

Grueller

Some lads like getting paid for their labour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464880#Comment_122464880

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463287#Comment_122463287

If the weanlings get scarce the shippers will disappear too and wait and see what the factory feed lot buyers will do with the price then.

Hyland17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362843/exited-suckler-cows

Great Post. Everyone has their own experience and will do what suits them best. I know a few that got out over the last few years and went drystock. Never been happier. Others just let the place out,had kept minimum stock for a few years. I often wonder tho where are all these drystock going to come from. Plenty young lads wont/can't calf down cows and getting into drystock.

Will calf prices get very dear if supply demand change? Will people get more focused on dairy bred calves? I think the tide will turn before too long on sucklers. Its a dying trade like a lot of the farming industry.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464954#Comment_122464954

What do you mean about the tide turning? Do you mean they will start to increase again or that they will decline further and die out?

Hyland17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464960#Comment_122464960

I think the people who stick with it will get proper money for their stock. Look at the marts and all the culls that are going through it. Alot of good breeding gone from those farms that chose a different path to follow.

mr.stonewall

Personally I can see Suckler numbers dropping further and quality is going to slip aswell for the majority. The move will be towards easier calving and more live calves at weaning is driving this. There will be a few exceptions to this, but in the main it's happening as we speak

Age profile is going to hit the sector aswell as. Most part time farmers with sucklers are dropping back a few every year, and moving towards Angus bulls

This biggest issue I can see is for the farmer suckler farmer in organics getting out of suckler cows or the dry stock farmer planning on going into organics. Organic stores are not there and are going to be hard got

patsy_mccabe

Opinions are one thing, but the hard data tells a different story.

Total Suckler cow numbers have fallen from 1,099,589 in 2013 to 844,978 in 2023. That's a total reduction of 23% in 10 years.

Suckler-Cow-Numbers-by-county-2013-to-2023.pdf (icbf.com)

Bass Reeves

I can never understand lads exiting that do not finish a good portion of the cows. It makes sense to do that. As well I think lads exiting should consider going into cull cows if there land is good enough. They would have the skillset to calve down incalf cull cows.

I agree with there being an issue for lads going into organics trying to source stock if they are not breeding. If I was going into organics I consider sheep rather than cattle as a drystock option. A good few hill farmers have opted for organics and most of there lambs are sold as conventional at present. I be inclined to look at those rather than a cattle based drystock system.

Yes as sucklers become more scarce there mat be more demand for there stock. However feedlots etc will still want there margin and that limits upside. The other risk is limitations on exports over the next few years.

All in all lads that were waiting for an exit scheme that IFA and the FJ scuppered are now grasping the nettle and exiting. It will continue for another while. Traditionally there used to ve 4-500k suckler cows in the country we will probably head back to that

Water John

It's the calving and the lambing is one of the key issues. Can't be done if you've a job elsewhere. Are we going back to 50 years ago. The X dairy calves going up west to be reared and sent east then to be fattened?

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465116#Comment_122465116

Getting out of suckers to go calving cull cows or sheep? Sideways hardship step at best.

It’s like any system, they have have their advantages. The primary advantage of suckers to me is the maintenance of a closed herd limiting exposure to TB.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465708#Comment_122465708

I think you are hitting the nail on the head with the 1st sentence Water John.

Someone else above also touched on the related issue, to alleviate the stress of part time farming and calving, easier calving breeds are being selected. This leads to plainer stock. The bottom line then is that you are missing the niche market of export quality cattle then and you might as well have dairy cross stock if you are selling cattle by the kilo into the mass market.

The nitrates also mitigate against the suckler here. The suckler cow and her calf to a year are 89kgs of organic nitrogen. That is the same as 3.7 dairy cross calves to a year old. That is, at last springs prices, north of €3000 in sales for 89kg on the nitrates . The suckler weanling, bulls against heifers is probably €1200-1400 in sales average on u grade stock. You can argue costs whichever way, that's a larger argument, but the output is plain to see.

The suckler cows biggest problem is she puts on probably 150kg of beef every summer that you don't get to sell and selling kgs of beef is the name of the game if its beef farming you are at.

SuperTortoise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463287#Comment_122463287

That's the general principal i'm working off of myself, scarcity will yield a better price.

At present there is'nt enough of a margin to produce U grade stock, dairy stock have access to an AA topup and when all is said and done a U grade is not making much more pre Kg than an R/O grade.

The market for U grade weanlings/forward stores is decreasing year on year, no one wants to buy them unless they get them for a song.

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465109#Comment_122465109

Going back a bit further, there were only 478,000 suckler cows in the state 40 years ago, and numbers didn't cross 1 million until 1994, so the idea of having 1m plus suckler cows in the country is more recent than Ray Houghton's goal v Italy.

All driven by coupled payments and the introduction of milk quota of course. The notion of sucklers being the 'backbone of the country' is quite dubious. In time, suckling it will be remembered a passing phase in Irish agriculture.

patsy_mccabe

Suckler cow numbers back to 1991 here.

2018-The-Economic-and-Societal-Importance-of-the-Irish-Suckler-Beef-Sector-Aug-2018.pdf (ifa.ie)

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465708#Comment_122465708

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465734#Comment_122465734

You would not be lambing. I said that with the amount of hill farmers joining organics if I went into organics I be looking at finishing hill lamb rather than finishing cattle.

On the cull cows you will ways end up with a few incalf,you inject anything bought up until late September. You will buy a lot of stuff guaranteed not incalf but you will end up with few incalf. A former suckler farmer will have the skillset to manage them.

At present you can buy cull cows for 60-80% of there price 5 years ago and the finished price is probably 20-30% ahead of the price back then. A cull cow bought for 4-500 euro today could make 1500+ next May/June.

Nobody is going to hand you decent margins without you working around the edges of the system or unless you are willing to have substantial capital tied up in the system

Sugarbowl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463707#Comment_122463707

what caused that with the cow? Grass tetany?

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122466834#Comment_122466834

To put meat on them parlour cows Bass is no joke. I did it and wouldn't return to it.

TinyMuffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467215#Comment_122467215

horse this stuff into em.

TinyMuffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467042#Comment_122467042

don’t know. On the same field for 3 weeks and grass wasn’t very lush and nights weren’t too cold.

Jb1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467521#Comment_122467521

Mineral lick bucket in the field?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467521#Comment_122467521

You'd know from the ground around her if it was grass tetany.

Sugarbowl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467881#Comment_122467881

what do you mean by that?

The neighbor had a dead dairy cow yesterday morning. Perfect the evening before. I must get a bucket for mine as my initial thought was tetany

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468222#Comment_122468222

They go down and then go into spasm, just kicking. If they are out in the field they'll have all the ground around them scraped from the kicks. It kills them quickly. That said, I only saw it once and it must be 20+ years ago.

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467521#Comment_122467521

Done for blackleg?

https://www.agridirect.ie/product/easi-trace-mineral-tablets

If you have water troughs I used those. Grass tetany most likely if not blackleg.

TinyMuffin

there were 30 cows and calves after standing around her so couldn’t tell. Black leg wouldn’t affect a 6 year old cow. Only young stock I believe and never had it on this piece of ground. Those tablets have no magnesium in them.

Rusheseverywhere

Grueller great post never really considered nitrates as being in Organics was not an issue but way you explained it another massive issue for sucklers. seen weanlings around 300kg making well under 1000. Looking at one mart online suckler heifers 275 to 300 making around 800. Waste of time. Also just in general not calculated it but my cows stayed around 800kg for say 7 years so zero weight gain for those 3 years they were fed and kept. ie 800 kg at 3 years sold similar weight at 10 as a cull cow. Think smaller cow way ahead for lads at it. I had old style cows that were up on 1000kg had in last few years started changing down to 700kg cows big enough

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468333#Comment_122468333

They do and zinc. Better link for tablets below. Yeah mostly young stock but blackleg can hit cows too. Always injected mine. See if soil disturbed in field or down a drain. Neighbour lost cows when tree fell over and cows went near soil on root ball. Vet said clostadrium in soil

https://www.cattleproducts.ie/products/easi-trace?variant=42114805956824&currency=EUR&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google%2Bshopping&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8MG1BhCoARIsAHxSiQnLdtg3DCtYXa9LAntTxjyK-PhZn6LkIVTouUVeSFKnqUPilBYFMIEaAvcAEALw_wcB

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467215#Comment_122467215

buying in cull cows would be madness - the thoughts of what you’d be bringing around the place makes me think that I’d rather calve 200 suckler cows.

Anto_Meath

In fairness if I wasn't at what I am at I would fatten cull cows or buy older sucklers cows with a calf at foot, let her rear the calf then split and finish both. It is probably the most profitable game in the beef job... but its hard work, with high risk.. Next best paying is buying 14 -18 month stores and finishing to beef.. but you need time to buy them, you can't just rock up to a mart and buy 15 - 20 in 1 go, you ll end up with no value... you have to be patient and pick up the out of spec lad, 3 moves, nearly out of test, good shape but wrong colour. Some marts you ll have 5 or 6 out of others you ll be lucky to get 1.

Next most profitable is actually breeding your own and bringing them all the way to the hook.. mart takes €50 out of every animal any time they are there so if you remove that then that €50 is in your pocket...

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468515#Comment_122468515

If you have exited sucklers then it's immaterial what comes in to your farm in a way. A farmer changing systems has to work to his strengths and skill sets. This is why you see many dairy farmers as they exit milking change to calf or heifer rearing.

With a suckler farmer it's no different. He will struggle buying stores or even calves. His land may be middle of the road, but he has skills regarding calving and managing cows.

As @Anto_Meath pointed out you cannot rock up and expect to buy 20 stores in one go. 5-8 is a great days buying if you are watching for your margin. You will need less cull cows and you can buy all year round now. If you are lucky enough to have a cubicle set up for sucklers and/or an old dairy parlout all the better.

TThere Is no easy money in farming if you want profitability you have to work at it. Looking at organics stocked very low you are only drawing the payments. If you are stocked high you need straw if you are not growing grain yourself 70 bales will set you back 2.5k. That is some hole out of an organics payment

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468956#Comment_122468956

Buying in cull cows greatly increases the risk of TB. If herd is restricted as in, you go down with TB, farmer will not be able to buy in stock so just be prepared for that.

Is it practical for a farmer to have the time to source in the mart, get them home and settled in etc. the one point that you constantly miss is that 95% of beef farmers work off farm.

So the extra work of that coupled with thr TB risk and the extra work in additional TB tests all add to the reality, that while there may be a margin there, it is not a feasible option for the vast majority of people. These type of forums should be to share advice/opinions to help others so I’m sharing mine.

But all to their own.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463287#Comment_122463287

just to add to this a bit. Firstly, I would be happy with the return form my sucklers but by God do you work for it. Calving, tagging, dehorning, getting calves going, scour, breeding, castration, weaning, dosing, etc. all take a lot of time. Not to mention the safety element when cows calving.

It’s unfortunately incompatible to getting young kids involved as you simply cannot bring young kids around suckler cows at calving time. I grew up rearing bucket fed calves, had my own few and went on from there. That’s not there with sucklers. Now I know there are plenty that bring their kids with them but it only takes one slip up and you have a tragic situation.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469624#Comment_122469624

You seen to forget that for 16 years after I bought the farm I did exactly that, worked and sourced cattle unfortunately there was no LSL back then and I had no parent to fall back on, and give a hand now and again.

Dunedin you can spend your life looking at problems or you can look at solutions. As I pointed out again and again at farming you will not be profitable unless you work around the edges.

Look at the advantages of cull cows relatively easy to source, if you buy ex dairy stock they are quite to work with. If you need to get one in out if a field she would follow a bucket out of the field for you. A store bullock will not.

Lads are leaving sucklers because of profitability and not being able to control the work load. I am just pointing out the options. Every system has its issues if you go down with TB every 2-3 years ( and from the lads locally that do it going down seems to be 5 years plus plus

Cavanjack

Any trading system will have tb risk. Most lads at cows have feedlot status. Buy 200 ish cattle a year here. Roughly have one every 2 years go down and it’s usually in the factory they are found to have lesions.
If you worry about every thing that can go wrong you wouldn’t get out of bed in the morning.

epfff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469624#Comment_122469624

Tb not a problem buying. Just get permit to buy from dept.

I was locked for 14 months in row at one stage never more than few days I couldn't buy. Last time I was locked they didn't even bother asking for any paperwork to give me 2 months buying permit.

I pick cattle for marts at night when kids in bed and let them settle in on there own while I'm at work next day. Often if I'm busy or the kids have football I give them a week before bothering them. If the have water grass and fence you are only disturbing the settling in by looking at them.