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Exited Suckler Cows

Rusheseverywhere

Got out of cows in April. Definitely glad I did. Felt relief to be honest they are just too much work and no life with them.

Cost of straw in organics to keep cows and calves also insane. Kinda lost interest in farming too since- stepped back and realised what a waste most of my farming was and in general it all is. Advice I would give is have a dispersal sale in local mart and nothing else. I sold to 2 lads one delayed picking up cows for nearly a month as he was out of fodder. Rest went to a neighbour who had me calve them down. (That not part of deal orginally but also he had fodder/shed space issues) had a caserean and lost cow, vet got in time etc, first time ever happened and it was my tough luck. Annoyed the hell out of me. Most lads I know in sucklers getting out or cutting way down. Going ahead handy dry stock for me and seriously thinking of selling up. Aload of money tied up in land that is making nothing.

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Silverdream

Sounds like the exit didn't go well. Selling private is a pain, between lonely hearts ringing up with no interest in buying, lads that ring and say they'll be there at a time or date and then never turn up, not even a text to let you know not to expect them. Lads that want to take the stock and pay later!! it's just not worth it.

Good few empty farms about now, meadows been sold or given away for free. Not too many takers, as the cost of bales of unfertilised weed feed does not pay to make them. Suckler farming has become a real loss making exercise, when you factor in all the costs and hassle. Slurry, Bales, Fertiliser, sprays, maintenance of Tractor, sheds, fencing drains etc and then factor in angry suckler cows, stone mad calves. Then the piss poor prices for the average Weanling.

It's madness, which I think is gradually coming to an end.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463205#Comment_122463205

it’s a hobby for a lot, especially those with an off farm income.

cute geoge

Some hobby ,trying to work and calve cows .Sounds more like hell to me.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463272#Comment_122463272

A vocation indeed. I have a tiny little 12-16 Limo cow herd. For the most part breed to be quiet. I enjoy the bit of physical work (though it does detract from family times sometimes) but equally adds to family time when I am out the fields with the young lad examining how many flys on are on a cow shite 😀. It’s a hobby that turns a few pound (could maybe turn the same if leased out and have no work….but what the **** works I do all evening and weekend).

The more that exit the better for me as my U grade weanlings be more and more in demand.

Water John

Having given up the sucklers a few years ago, I can sympathise. Don't think there's a single answer. For me, developing my interest in regenerative agriculture has given me a positive outcome. One can now keep the various payments on very low stocking, if that's what a person wishes to do. Remember too there are others who have followed the great advice and increased largely the dairy herd, also the debt and the workload and find it difficult now to unwind that threadmill.

TinyMuffin

I’m the only 1 in the locality with suckler cows. Calved 55 this spring and hope to do the same next spring plus 25 heifers that have been with the bull. Uncle got out of sucklers 5 years ago and buys the best weanlings I’d have for top dollar. Lots around here buy good weanlings and someone has to breed them. Nothing nicer than walking through cows and calves happy out grazing. Although I had a dead cow Tuesday morning.

baxterooneydoody

The reality is the off farm jobs are what's keeping farmers going in a lot of cases, the sooner lads understand hobby farming does nothing only make young men old and cripples the better off they'll be. If you can earn a living without working farm, more power to you but it looks like the future is feed lots and a numbers game

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463287#Comment_122463287

that’s me exactly. I won’t be giving up the sucklers any time soon but I don’t mind hearing others giving them up either.

Water John

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463764#Comment_122463764

There's no calf born on a feedlot.

Austinbrick

Some honest opinions there!

We're exiting sucklers at the minute.decided last year .started by not getting them back in calf. Though we have 1 new suckler since!! (A sold heifer turned up in calf....we bought her back and she calved a nice w head on May 2nd.

19 sucklers. 10 left. SOLD 5 at the mart. All Wheads not ready for factory. Another 4 factory fit shorthorn went for killing.

9 left to sell. 2 are lovely cows plenty good for breeding.1 is a cracking 3 Yr old shorthorn but I think I'll just leave them off together .(as oppose to looking for a buyer) Mart and factory again in a few weeks.Will give them nuts to push them on .

Underfertilized weed feed ! Good point Silver Dream.

baxterooneydoody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463969#Comment_122463969

Hence the numbers game

Austinbrick

One of my brothers had the same opinion as some of ye. To keep them when everyone is exiting.

Like others in the comments, main jobs are off farm and we are busy with families and sport as well.

Plus. There will be more shed space and less bales needed.

Will miss calves being born on the farm alright. For the hour or 2 after birth, that gave great job satisfaction. But Silverdream definitely balances out that out with her raw comments about suckler farming.

Rusheseverywhere

Definitely Mart for dispersal nearly my main point in posting and also had said some other threading intended for out just let lads know how went. Few other points raise as people in the game know it without me pontificating.

TB : went down before 2 once short and the other a full year down. Going down with TB and 60 weanlings to sell was a disaster. Back in my area and with the spread of it in general a big risk for a suckler man.

U grade they are all out I will be grand in a few years: IMO no shortage of U grade bull weanlings, any suckler man bar an AA man not producing U grade is at nothing. Often had 450kg bull weanlings, double muscled all the rest and they are too big good for the shippers and lads at home reckon too hard finished. They will be wrong colour, tight skinned, hairy not hairy etc. Producing U grade heifers not simple and lots of hassle. Also I think the days of exporting live weanlings prob coming to an end too.

Help alot people on here at sucklers probably pulling put of family members to help calve. I was by myself and just impossible to manage it wore me out anyway.

Vaccines medicine need with suckler cows I used BVD, Lepto, Corona, IBR, RSP, Bovicox, Halcour if needed etc , I prob rare in using many as did but schemes coming will require alot of those I thinl k

IBR eradication programme prob coming and it will be a nightmare if half your cows have it.

patsy_mccabe

Some lads just can't handle hardship. 😀

Rusheseverywhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464880#Comment_122464880

I am Slow not Thick!

Grueller

Some lads like getting paid for their labour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464880#Comment_122464880

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463287#Comment_122463287

If the weanlings get scarce the shippers will disappear too and wait and see what the factory feed lot buyers will do with the price then.

Hyland17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362843/exited-suckler-cows

Great Post. Everyone has their own experience and will do what suits them best. I know a few that got out over the last few years and went drystock. Never been happier. Others just let the place out,had kept minimum stock for a few years. I often wonder tho where are all these drystock going to come from. Plenty young lads wont/can't calf down cows and getting into drystock.

Will calf prices get very dear if supply demand change? Will people get more focused on dairy bred calves? I think the tide will turn before too long on sucklers. Its a dying trade like a lot of the farming industry.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464954#Comment_122464954

What do you mean about the tide turning? Do you mean they will start to increase again or that they will decline further and die out?

Hyland17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122464960#Comment_122464960

I think the people who stick with it will get proper money for their stock. Look at the marts and all the culls that are going through it. Alot of good breeding gone from those farms that chose a different path to follow.

mr.stonewall

Personally I can see Suckler numbers dropping further and quality is going to slip aswell for the majority. The move will be towards easier calving and more live calves at weaning is driving this. There will be a few exceptions to this, but in the main it's happening as we speak

Age profile is going to hit the sector aswell as. Most part time farmers with sucklers are dropping back a few every year, and moving towards Angus bulls

This biggest issue I can see is for the farmer suckler farmer in organics getting out of suckler cows or the dry stock farmer planning on going into organics. Organic stores are not there and are going to be hard got

patsy_mccabe

Opinions are one thing, but the hard data tells a different story.

Total Suckler cow numbers have fallen from 1,099,589 in 2013 to 844,978 in 2023. That's a total reduction of 23% in 10 years.

Suckler-Cow-Numbers-by-county-2013-to-2023.pdf (icbf.com)

Bass Reeves

I can never understand lads exiting that do not finish a good portion of the cows. It makes sense to do that. As well I think lads exiting should consider going into cull cows if there land is good enough. They would have the skillset to calve down incalf cull cows.

I agree with there being an issue for lads going into organics trying to source stock if they are not breeding. If I was going into organics I consider sheep rather than cattle as a drystock option. A good few hill farmers have opted for organics and most of there lambs are sold as conventional at present. I be inclined to look at those rather than a cattle based drystock system.

Yes as sucklers become more scarce there mat be more demand for there stock. However feedlots etc will still want there margin and that limits upside. The other risk is limitations on exports over the next few years.

All in all lads that were waiting for an exit scheme that IFA and the FJ scuppered are now grasping the nettle and exiting. It will continue for another while. Traditionally there used to ve 4-500k suckler cows in the country we will probably head back to that

Water John

It's the calving and the lambing is one of the key issues. Can't be done if you've a job elsewhere. Are we going back to 50 years ago. The X dairy calves going up west to be reared and sent east then to be fattened?

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465116#Comment_122465116

Getting out of suckers to go calving cull cows or sheep? Sideways hardship step at best.

It’s like any system, they have have their advantages. The primary advantage of suckers to me is the maintenance of a closed herd limiting exposure to TB.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465708#Comment_122465708

I think you are hitting the nail on the head with the 1st sentence Water John.

Someone else above also touched on the related issue, to alleviate the stress of part time farming and calving, easier calving breeds are being selected. This leads to plainer stock. The bottom line then is that you are missing the niche market of export quality cattle then and you might as well have dairy cross stock if you are selling cattle by the kilo into the mass market.

The nitrates also mitigate against the suckler here. The suckler cow and her calf to a year are 89kgs of organic nitrogen. That is the same as 3.7 dairy cross calves to a year old. That is, at last springs prices, north of €3000 in sales for 89kg on the nitrates . The suckler weanling, bulls against heifers is probably €1200-1400 in sales average on u grade stock. You can argue costs whichever way, that's a larger argument, but the output is plain to see.

The suckler cows biggest problem is she puts on probably 150kg of beef every summer that you don't get to sell and selling kgs of beef is the name of the game if its beef farming you are at.

SuperTortoise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463287#Comment_122463287

That's the general principal i'm working off of myself, scarcity will yield a better price.

At present there is'nt enough of a margin to produce U grade stock, dairy stock have access to an AA topup and when all is said and done a U grade is not making much more pre Kg than an R/O grade.

The market for U grade weanlings/forward stores is decreasing year on year, no one wants to buy them unless they get them for a song.

Finty Lemon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465109#Comment_122465109

Going back a bit further, there were only 478,000 suckler cows in the state 40 years ago, and numbers didn't cross 1 million until 1994, so the idea of having 1m plus suckler cows in the country is more recent than Ray Houghton's goal v Italy.

All driven by coupled payments and the introduction of milk quota of course. The notion of sucklers being the 'backbone of the country' is quite dubious. In time, suckling it will be remembered a passing phase in Irish agriculture.

patsy_mccabe

Suckler cow numbers back to 1991 here.

2018-The-Economic-and-Societal-Importance-of-the-Irish-Suckler-Beef-Sector-Aug-2018.pdf (ifa.ie)

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465708#Comment_122465708

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465734#Comment_122465734

You would not be lambing. I said that with the amount of hill farmers joining organics if I went into organics I be looking at finishing hill lamb rather than finishing cattle.

On the cull cows you will ways end up with a few incalf,you inject anything bought up until late September. You will buy a lot of stuff guaranteed not incalf but you will end up with few incalf. A former suckler farmer will have the skillset to manage them.

At present you can buy cull cows for 60-80% of there price 5 years ago and the finished price is probably 20-30% ahead of the price back then. A cull cow bought for 4-500 euro today could make 1500+ next May/June.

Nobody is going to hand you decent margins without you working around the edges of the system or unless you are willing to have substantial capital tied up in the system