Birth Cert Requested for Job Interview?

Suit of Wolves

I was asked to attend an assessment for a new job. It would be carried out prior to the job interview (which would be held at a later date) and would take about 30 minutes.

When on the phone to the hiring manager, I was asked to bring three criteria to this assessment to proof that I'm qualified for the job. But in the follow up email (in addition to this) I was also asked for documentation to prove my right to work in Ireland (passport / EU ID card / birth cert / valid visa). It also said "Please note that if you're unable to provide these documents upon arrival this may result in the cancellation of your interview".

I would've thought that you wouldn't be obliged to show something like a birth cert until you'd actually be hired. Just wondering is there any way a candidate could hide their date of birth during an interview? as they're entitled to do.

Thanks

accensi0n

Eh, it's just 'one' of the options.. ?

RurtBeynolds

You're not obliged to show a birth cert. That's just one of the options.

OU812

they don’t want to waste their time/money interviewing someone who they can’t employ. Also proves identity.

Seems quite sensible to me.

Former Former Former

what a ridiculous thread title.

But in response to the actual question the OP asked, if they hire you, you start the job and only then they discover you’re not who you say you are, they’ve wasted a lot of time and effort on you. Of course you need to provide the docs before you start.

Suit of Wolves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122460905#Comment_122460905

Well as a matter of fact, the other criteria that are unique to my profession, also in fact proof my identity. They'll know by my accent that I'm Irish.

This is it

They've asked for proof that you're eligible to work in Ireland. They've given you multiple options as to how you do this.

One eyed Jack

OP you’ve given the explanation for the requirement in your opening post:

I was also asked for documentation to prove my right to work in Ireland

A birth certificate would be a good indication, or a passport, EU ID card or a valid visa. It doesn’t appear as though you’re being asked to provide all of them, though I have seen examples where an employers background checks are far more thorough, because they want to avoid situations where they are found to be not in compliance with Irish, UK or EU labour laws:

https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/research/spotlight-research/does-ireland-have-modern-slavery-problem

SVI40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122460960#Comment_122460960

An accent does not prove you nationality. Looks at all the American accents in our young folk!

Rows Grower

It must be one super dooper company to work for.

Why don't they just check for the details they need with the information you already supplied?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461025#Comment_122461025

This is pretty standard, Visa sponsorship costs thousands per applicant and that's often billed to the company

Many job applications nowadays will ask applicants if they have the right to work in Ireland and whether they'll require visa sponsorship later

Presumably the OP is an Irish citizen and the company is asking for proof. They can't just ring up the passport office and ask if Joe Bloggs is an Irish citizen on account of the massive privacy breach that would entail

The company will also likely do a background check using a third party. Again this is costly so they're probably trying to filter applicants as early as they can

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461058#Comment_122461058

All they have to do is contact his referees or previous employers.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461083#Comment_122461083

Pretty much no company gives a reference anymore, at least in the sense of "Joe's a good guy" type of character reference

An employer can't really say anything bad about an employee in a reference because it leaves them open to being sued for defamation.

Also someone might not want their current employer knowing they're looking for a new job. Some managers take that stuff personally

The best you'll often get is a signed letter confirming you are/were an employee. It'll give the dates of your employment and your job title but nothing more

In any case, having a previous employer in Ireland doesn't prove your right to work here, it's possible they didn't do a background check

Kurooi

There are people, and they're rare, who never made a passport. Their only official document confirming they're a real person is the birth cert. So that's why it's an option there. They want your passport, and that's normal.

StormForce13

If Doofus wants the job, one would assume that Doofus would either provide the requested proofs or tell the prospective employer to take a hike. Instead, Doofus decides to ask the rest of the world what it thinks; and, in passing, suggests that they're a bit wary about revealing what age they are! Not really the type of employee that I'd want working as chief filing clerk in my organisation!

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461083#Comment_122461083

The new employer is not going to take the word of a referee or previous employer on whether the OP has a legal right to take up this new position. The new employer has a legal duty to prove that every employee they have is legally entitled to work for them, and there are substantial penalties for employers who fail to do this.

This is an incredibly basic check, and failure to comply will likely to result in the OP losing their opportunity

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122460960#Comment_122460960

With that attitude, you’re probably wasting your own, and the potential employers time.

Nigel Fairservice

Anyone born in Ireland before 01.01.2005 is automatically an Irish citizen and has the right to work here. There's plenty of people born in Ireland after that date who have Irish accents but are not Irish citizens and their right to work is not so clear.

OU812

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122460960#Comment_122460960

Are any of the criteria unique to your profession legal documents?

Accents mean diddly squat and prove nothing.

Former Former Former

If you’re making this much of an issue of a minor administrative check, they’re probably making a bad hire tbh

TheRiverman

Toys out of the pram about a Birth Cert 😂😂.

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461179#Comment_122461179

For all you know it might be a simple aptitude test to eliminate people that just do everything thing they're told without question.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461498#Comment_122461498

Jesus Christ 😂😂

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362759/birth-cert-requested-for-job-interview

You are not even allowed to apply for a job from within the EEA unless you are a citizen, have residence status or another permit that entitles you to seek employment. And there is absolutely no point in wasting time talking to people who don't even have the basic requirements to be considered for the job.

In my experience here in Switzerland, about 15% of the applicants will be a no show once they know we will be checking for valid work documents. Many people chance their arm, hope they'll impress so much and are so far on in the process that you'll try and sponsor them for a work permit, but that does not work.

So if you are still interested, follow the requirement otherwise withdraw.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122460960#Comment_122460960

My daughter-in-law speaks English with a Mayo accent despite the fact she has never been to Ireland, my wife who is Swiss has a more south Dublin accent, but she lived there for over five years. I speak two Swiss German dialects to a level where most Swiss just assume I come for those regions.

You need to get out more, accents mean nothing.

NewbridgeIR

OP sounds like a very awkward person.

Why not offer them a baptismal certificate if you're wary of revealing your date of birth?

Or else a photograph from your first birthday party.

Ted222

“I would've thought that you wouldn't be obliged to show something like a birth cert until you'd actually be hired. Just wondering is there any way a candidate could hide their date of birth during an interview? as they're entitled to do.”

My advice to employers on this issue is to formally request the required information at the point at which a job offer is being made. It can be flagged at interview stage that any subsequent offer of employment will be conditional on the applicant providing the required information within say, two weeks.

It’s convenient for employers to do so in advance as you’ve described because it potentially saves time subsequently. It means a person can start immediately and that there will be no associated delay in providing the required documentation.

However, employers/agencies insisting on ID in advance are at potential risk of GDPR because they’re seeking records that they may not necessarily need. In more serious cases, it may be a form of identity theft from organisations that front as recruitment agencies.

As an individual job seeker, you have the right to insist that any such information will be withheld until a job offer is made. Whether this reduces your chances of a job offer is something you need to consider.

JVince

If the OP has an issue with such a minor inconsequential request, what issues will the OP have if requested to do a task they don't like?

The fact that the OP seems not to understand that they can provide any one of the several options given would suggest to me that employing the op will be a grave error by the company

Nigel Fairservice

My partner is involved in hiring for her organisation (an organisation of less than 5 employees, based outside of Dublin) and they receive many speculative applications from outside the EU when they advertise a role. I'm not even sure how they stumble across the job advert in the first place. I'm sure you can multiply this type of speculative application many times for large organisations operating out of Ireland. Ensuring someone's right to work in Ireland at the start of the process just makes sense.

I'm not sure an employer can directly ask your date of birth but they can probably roughly guess your age based on other things on your cv like what year you finished college.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463142#Comment_122463142

“I'm not sure an employer can directly ask your date of birth but they can probably roughly guess your age based on other things on your cv like what year you finished college.”

If they ask for your date of birth and don’t then offer you a job, they’re potentially exposed to a claim of discrimination. I don’t know why they would expose themselves to this risk.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122460960#Comment_122460960

It's not about confirming your identity. It's above work rights. You accent is hardly something they can go by.

What are the "other criteria" that prove your identity?

Nigel Fairservice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463167#Comment_122463167

I doubt they would overtly ask, as you say, they would be leaving themselves open.

A long forgotten memory coming back to me, I was asked my age during an interview about 15 years ago. It was a small company that would not have had a dedicated HR department. The MD asked me and I told her my age even though I knew she shouldn't ask. I got the job. Even if I hadn't I would not have had the money to be taking cases. I would not be litigious either.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461025#Comment_122461025

They could, he OP provided the information. But clearly he hasn't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122461083#Comment_122461083

Unless previous employers asked to see they same documents, they wouldn't know for sure what his status is. And even if they did know, a referee's say so isn't really evidence that somebody else could accept.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462854#Comment_122462854

Employers are within their rights to ensure that people they are about to interview are legally entitled to apply for such positions and furthermore to prevent them being called out later for attempting to recurity cheap illegal labour.

Employers are entited to collect such data as part of the recruiting process provided tye follow the GDPR rules and distroy it afterwards just like all other such data. Plus they don't actually need to old it, al they need to do is inspect it and show those who don't qualify the door.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122466060#Comment_122466060

“Employers are within their rights to ensure that people they are about to interview are legally entitled to apply for such positions”

Agreed, but that doesn’t necessarily require evidence of date of birth or formal ID. The cards issued by the state that can be presented to potential employers clearly state that they should not be considered forms of ID.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122466060#Comment_122466060

I'm not sure that the Irish data protection commissioner agrees with you.

Personally I do. Although I sympathise with the OP'S desire to hide their birthdays. But the DPC thinks otherwise.

Especially as this is for a pre interview assessment, not even an interview.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122466223#Comment_122466223

What "cards" are you referring to? Just to be clear.

The employer has not requested a formal ID. They have asked to confirm work rights. If you agree that employees need to confirm work rights, then how do you propose that those rights are confirmed? Bonus points if they can be confirmed without identifying the applicant (personally I can't how that is possible outside of a certified redacted copy).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122463167#Comment_122463167

If somebody was going to make a fake claim of discrimination, they could make it whether or not that supplied their citizenship/resident details. So that really doesn't seem relevant.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468732#Comment_122468732

“What "cards" are you referring to? Just to be clear”

Residence cards issued by the state.

“The employer has not requested a formal ID. They have asked to confirm work rights. If you agree that employees need to confirm work rights, then how do you propose that those rights are confirmed? Bonus points if they can be confirmed without identifying the applicant (personally I can't how that is possible outside of a certified redacted copy).”

I was responding to a post relating to provision of a birth certificate. However, as mentioned above, a residence card confirms capacity to work but are not legal forms of ID.

“If somebody was going to make a fake claim of discrimination, they could make it whether or not that supplied their citizenship/resident details. So that really doesn't seem relevant.”

I was referring to discrimination on age grounds, not race.

witchgirl26

OP a lot more organisations are requesting the documents to confirm right to work before the interview process as they don't want to go down that route without understanding if there's visa requirements involved or not. It's a big undertaking for a business. Less so if a person already has an established right to work but then visa's need to be renewed after a time & if by a small chance it got rejected, there would be a pretty major impact on the employer. I know when we were hiring we looked for it to be prepared. The only influence it had on us was to leave out those who did not already have a right to work as we weren't prepared to go down that road for a junior position.

The business didn't just request your birth cert though. They gave it as an option for those who may not have the other forms of documentation. You can provide any of the other ones. And legally the company must ensure that all employees have the right to work in the country. Not doing that leaves the company open to fines. And accents don't prove anything.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469156#Comment_122469156

Why is the fact that residence cards are not ID relevant? There was no request to produce ID. A visa is not a legal ID, and was included. A residence would probably be accepted for work rights confirmation.

I was referring to discrimination on age grounds, not race.

Where did I mention race?
I knew you meant on age grounds, as did I. You've sort of proved how baseless the concern is.

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470743#Comment_122470743

I was responding to a post regarding birth certs.

On the age thing, it’s potentially dangerous to ask for someone’s age if you don’t subsequently offer them a job. I thought it was obvious, but if you have an alternative view, good for you.