All Ireland GAA final & All Ireland LGFA final

Tombo2001

Last weekend tickets couldnt be had for love nor money at €100 a pop. I had folks from Galway telling me they had looked everywhere and were desperate.

This weekend, the tickets are on Ticketmaster for €30 for adults and €15 for kids, and they arent anywhere close to selling out the lower tier of Croke Park.

What is the issue here?

I know people like to have a pop at LGFA, and the camogie association. And they like to have a pop (rightly) that the women arent as well funded.

But its been pretty well documented that these games are happening. The tickets are easy to get.

The only people responsible for putting bums on seats here are the Gaelic Football communities of Kerry, Galway, Tyrone, Leitrim, Fermanagh and Louth. Why arent they supporting their teams? Especially, why arent the women in these counties supporting their teams? Why arent the parents with young girls in GAA clubs in these counties supporting their teams?

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362417/all-ireland-gaa-final-all-ireland-lgfa-final

 Why arent they supporting their teams?

They have no interest that's why.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452970#Comment_122452970

Well they should. The games are just as good as the mens games.

And its just not about 'interest' - its also about role models for tens of thousands of girls playing gaa games.

This game should be a sell out.

Charlo30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452970#Comment_122452970

Nail on the head. When Dublin have been in the final they've drawn a decent crowd. But mainly because the DCB have given a lot of free tickets to clubs

Charlo30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452994#Comment_122452994

Bottom line. You can't make people take an interest. And the Ladies Final has no divine to sell out. If the product was popularly enough they would have no problem filling Croke Park

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362417/all-ireland-gaa-final-all-ireland-lgfa-final

Fyi I paid €55 for a terrace ticket last week, and there were plenty of tickets around on Sunday.

From a Galway perspective there has been 3 big matches at Croke park in the last 5 weeks, quite expensive to get to all those. Also factor in the heartbreak of last week, going back to Croke park so soon would be traumatic (I'm not joking).

I agree with your overall point, I hope ladies Football and Camogie keep growing in popularity, it won't happen overnight though.

I'll watch both the ladies finals on TV, looking forward to them.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058362417/all-ireland-gaa-final-all-ireland-lgfa-final

Largely the same reason that thousands of Irish people support British soccer teams rather than their local LoI team i.e. marketing, tradition of support, perceived quality of the sport, etc.

Charles Babbage

These games will never get the same crowd, they are not the best teams as any of the men's teams would beat them.

However, the LGFA made a huge mistake by changing their season to shadow the male game. Had they left their final in September than they would have had significant media limelight for 6 weeks. In the last two weeks with the All Ireland hurling and football finals involving relatively novel teams there is only so much opportunity left for the ladies game to get publicity.

And in practical terms, Galway people not going to trek to Dublin this week again, especially as they are likely to be disappointed again. Kerry is a long way from Dublin, the cost of the tickets are only part of the cost of the day.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453167#Comment_122453167

Nobody said they were the best teams.

What I said was that the games were just as good. Would you not watch Ciara Mageaan or Mona McSharry because the men can go faster? Their races are just as good.

What I will say is that a lot of the same ingredients are there - supporting the county, supporting the player from the local clubs, in an All Ireland final in Croke Park. But people do it for the mens, and wont do it for the womens. In particular what puzzles me is - all the women involved in GAA in these counties - why are they not getting out there to support their county teams.

Your point on September is well made - however the female players have the same problems as the men with long seasons and losing out their summer months, so fair is fair.

callaway92

For me it stems from the Club game rather than the County game.

If you're not in the 'circle' you wouldn't know what's going on at all. Hard to get involved as a fan of the County team when you barely follow the sport as it is (compared to Hurling/Men's Gaelic Football which have massive coverage).

It's a long-term project obviously but they really really have to up things Marketing-wise and get as many eyes on the product as possible, while also trying to make the product exciting to watch for new viewers. Funnily enough, a lot of people think having it on TG4 is great for it, but we know ourselves, casual viewers of a younger age won't stick around on TG4.

Two more things - A) Lack of decent Social Media from LGFA (and Camogie Association) doesn't help…and B) Like the GAA, not using a Data Provider leaves the information on their webites boring and basic. There's Irish Data providers to Clubs and Counties that have thousands upon thousands of data points and these archaic organisations don't want to use them.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453055#Comment_122453055

surprised- I thought tickets were scarce.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453466#Comment_122453466

Take all your points - but I'd still feel there are enough people involved in GAA in these counties to fill it comfortably. They know its on, social media presence or not, and they arent going.

And they are missing out by not getting involved. It was brilliant for Meath when the LGFA team won two years in a row. And the crowds were big.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453492#Comment_122453492

Course there is enough people but they couldn't be arsed going. The Semi finals were a double header a few weeks ago with what looked like 4 or 5 hundred at them.

BaywatchHQ

Tickets for Hill 16 were €65 I think, people keep talking about the €100 seated tickets.

There is no logical reason why I would attend a ladies match. The people who go seem to attend because they want to bring their daughters to it whereas I have no kids. You may say "well you attend mens games", yes I attend mens games because that is what I grew up with, I didn't grow up going to ladies games therefore I have no interest in it.

Citroen2cv

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122453017#Comment_122453017

Well Dublin fans don't have far to travel.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452994#Comment_122452994

No, no their not. They're miles off. A good minor boys club team would beat them and that's the reality. Great to see women's sport progressing but if people want to see big crowds then women need to attend the games and support it in the same numbers as men support the mens codes. There will be a handful who went to last week's game and again to Sundays.

No point comparing them to olympians either as anyone competing for honours at that level is an absolute unicorn. Freakishly athletic in their given discipline to be in the conversation at world level.

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122454619#Comment_122454619

Exactly…that's the 'mainly because'

rolling boh

When you look at the crowds at the matches up to the finals it's no wonder that the crowd is small for the actual final .The years they had big crowds were really manufactured crowds with a lot of free tickets and counties having to buy tickets .I have attended when Dublin were playing and have seen the the same profile of fans there, a small number of adults with the vast majority of the crowd being kids and young women .It's a shame I know but even the crowd I would attend a men's match with the women had little interest and these are women who attend matches throughout the year .

carfinder

I think the Lidl ad on radio (not sure if on TV as I don't watch tv) calling for an end to inequality in sport and referencing the large variance in attendance at the womens games versus the men's games, is pathetic, woke crap.

There is equality of opportunity for both - but the wokies demand equality of outcome and anything less is "inequality".

Lidl should stick to selling cheap groceries and power tools and let the Irish public decide what way they want to soend their weekend free time, and their money!

joebloggs32

You're right about the Lidl advert. Its very condescending. You'd swear someone had issued an edict preventing people from attending.

The geographical spread of the counties contending all of the finals really hurt the attendance this year. When Meath and Dublin were playing it was very easy for even casual fans to head in for the matches.

A few years ago I found the ladies game quite entertaining, but now with teams adopting the same tactics as the mens game it is a poor spectacle. As the ladies cant kick the ball as far as the men defensive coaches can really pack the area around the D to stifle their opponents attacking play.

rolling boh

What was the crowd today didn't look that big and the senior final wasn't great ,looked a done deal for a long time .Definitely missed a couple of local counties involved. The three winners rightly won't be bothered but it wasn't a great advert for the ladies game today .

sligeach

I commented about the Lidl ad around a couple of weeks ago.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122412749#Comment_122412749

It's woke nonsense. It's not inequality, the truth is the majority of people just don't give a damn about women's football or camogie. The 2 camogie senior semi-finals were on in Nolan Park last weekend. If I said the stadium was 1/5th full, I would probably be generous.

Anyone have the attendance numbers for today's trio of finals? Didn't watch it but heard Off The Ball describe Kerry's first goal in the first half from a nothing looping ball in. Which connects to my next point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452994#Comment_122452994

"The games are just as good as the mens games."

🤣 No they're not. The standard is tripe.

I have today's attendance. 30,340. That's pathetic. What's the excuse? 3 finals, tickets cheap as chips, being given away in some instances, heavily promoted. Do these matches cost the GAA money?

Say Your Number

Kerry played some nice football, was a bad spectacle because Galway were poor.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122452994#Comment_122452994

The games are nowhere near as good as the men's. That's why people aren't attending.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122462155#Comment_122462155

There is equality of opportunity for both - but the wokies demand equality of outcome and anything less is "inequality"

If you where anyway involved in ladies football you would know well that there is no equal opportunity.

The girls get short shrift all the time, they are second class citizens compared to the boys.

I've seen it loads of times as both a girls and boys coach.

The girls are always bottom of the pile when it comes to access to pitches, equipment, etc.

I've seen u-14s girls (15 a side/full pitch) have to play a challenge game in preparation for the county championships on half a pitch because the u10 boys needed to use the other half of the pitch.

That doesn't happen the other way around.

Our u14 and u12 teams have to train in the local rugby club because none of the three clubs they are affiliated with are willing to give them a definite day and time to use any pitch for training, the boys teams get first call on the slots and the girls are forced to work around what's left

Clubs pay lip service to the ladies game and the need to retain girls playing into their teenage years, but it's only lip service.

And I can totally see why the boys get better treated, they are the ones that people will come to see as seniors and keep the club fielding teams in the county championships.

Only if ladies clubs own their own facilities, be that merely a pitch to train and play on, will they be able to do things their own way and not be relying on the "boys" club.

So no, it's not "wokies" demanding equality of outcomes, it just the absence of equality of opportunity.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465949#Comment_122465949

I've been at plenty of good LGFA games - Meath and Dublin for example have had some super games; especially the final a few years back.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468418#Comment_122468418

There plenty of lads out there who will have a closed mind about it, as we've seen on this discussion. But really, they arent the ones the LGFA should be trying to persude to go to the games. It would be bit like asking some alt-right good ol' boy to vote for Kamala instead of Trump. Wont happen.

I hear what you saying - and there probably should be joint ownership, but to my mind there already is. Like yourself, I've coached girls teams and boys teams. Its the same game, in the same club, on the same pitch, in the same jersey.

I referenced this earlier, a gripe I have with womens football is that women dont support it and they are never called out on it. Thats the same at Croke Park on Sunday, and the same with coaching underage. Its all the dads who run the show, or for the most part it is.

The GAA/ LGFA is a volunteer run organisation, I feel women need to be more involved in the grassroots running of it.

One additional point - its not my experience locally that the girls get short shrift for facilities. The biggest gap is that they dont have women coaching them, and I think that matters a lot.

hopgirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468418#Comment_122468418

We are lucky enough with our U12, U14s U16 and minors the pitch they use has availability and doesn't get sidelined due to the lads. But where the senior ladies train and play their matches they don't get to play their matches on the main pitch due to the lads/boys training or having a match. They are put down to the bottom pitch. They can't even use the facilities even when they have a match as the men get priority over the ladies. So glad that the girls use a different pitch now when one sees the carry on that goes on with the ladies.

The U14s had a schedule match away but the other team couldn't get a slot in any of the three pitches due to the lads using them. Even though, they had booked a pitch but the boys got priority over them.

gormdubhgorm

The Lidl advertisers for the ladies football have clearly changed their narrative over the years.

Lidl ladies football advert 8 years ago -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1WhbSiW0wc

The ladies Lidl advert of 3 years ago had changed to "level the playing field" - equality angle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCanpTTg6Q

6 months ago Lidl's slogan has gone even more direct. Rather than focus on the play on the pitch, the slogan has changed to "smash inequality get behind the fight" break the barrier etc. Complete with a Sinead O'Connor song to hammer home the message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7smQWoo4Ek

The truth is the majority of women do not support women's games, the quality overall is not good enough to make the men (who are used to the men's game) to go and watch. Women do not have interest in sport in general the same way men do.

A lot of young women who go to men's matches, they go because there is a crowd there, and it basically is an "event". Young single women of dating age also know that men's games with decent crowd, means an opportunity to meet men. The match itself is secondary for the majority of women supporters. That is the truth of it women have other interests.

sligeach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468586#Comment_122468586

Give me a shout in a few years time when the next "good" game happens.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122465949#Comment_122465949

The games are different.

Basic biology means to that the ladies can't do the same things as the men.

No one in kick long range points like the men, you're not going to see some of the scores the likes of Rian O'Neil got this year in a ladies game.

Keepers are going to get chipped more.

Female players don't have the speed male players have.

So there is no use comparing it to the men's game.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468659#Comment_122468659

I don't know if it is even the quality that is the issue with it not been supported it could be part of it but I've been to many LGFA club games that have been an enjoyable watch. People grow up supporting there club and county men's team from a young age and that is there teams.

Ladies football is alien to many and they don't need/want another team to follow.

Fr Tod Umptious

Women do not have interest in sport in general the same way men do.

This is it.

And men don't have the interest in women's sport that they have in men's sports.

I the short to medium term the ladies finals are never going to go much beyond the 50k attendance you saw a few years ago because at that 50k you have maxed out the people interested in and able to attend.

Maybe in a few decades the current crop of young girls that are becoming fans will continue to support the game and attendance will increase, but your not going to get adults, female or male, who are not interested now to start becoming interested.

I went on Sunday, just because my wife and kids were going (my wife and daughter are big fans), and even though I help out with an u14 team, I'm not that interested.

I'd have just as easily stayed at home and not even watched it on TV.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468668#Comment_122468668

Look pal if all you can do is sneer then please **** off to some other conversation. There is a real nasty tone to your commentary.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469114#Comment_122469114

There was no need for the snarkiness in the post but there is an element of truth to it.

I don't live in Ireland and so don't attend GAA games for either men or women. If i have a choice of going to men or womens then ill go to men because its normally a better game. Pretending that isn't the case is just going to disappoint people if they do attend a women's game.

I have a season ticket for my local soccer team. I also bring my daughter to the local womens games as i want to show her women can play sports. There is no way i would go otherwise as the game just isn't as good and i have limited time to watch games.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468586#Comment_122468586

I was at that one myself the year Meath had the shock win v Dublin - after Meath won junior.

Meath played counter attacking, Emma Troy Meath right corner back scored a goal, from an obvious pre-planned move.

The problem with the ladies football there are few games of the high level of that game. A lot of games in ladies football can be ridiculously one sided affairs as there is not the depth in the game.

—

Plus let's be honest the makeup of that crowd in the Meath/Dublin final not a normal GAA match crowd. Most of the crowd were really young girls/kids who get tickets "free" based on their GAA membership with clubs.

But yet the commentators talk up an historic crowd and so on. It is not truthful chat.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469144#Comment_122469144

To your point:

• Maybe when they get older, your daughters will want to watch the womens football instead of the mens, just as you'd rather watch the mens. And then they'll appreciate you bringing them when they were kids.
• Noting that its you bringing them and not their mum, thats the big unspoken part of the 'womens sport' debate for me. When it comes to giving up time to coach the u14 girls team, by and large its the men who do it. Women dont. They could, but they dont.

Uncle Pierre

Just to throw something else into the mix here about the differences in how the men's and women's games are perceived -

I think LGFA and camogie aren't helped by how they play simplified versions of the games. Even leaving aside the whole issue of the tackle, examples are:

• In LGFA, you can pick the ball straight from the ground, and throw it from one hand to the other.
• In camogie, you can drop the hurl if you're in a tight spot, and you can score from a hand pass, instead of having to find a way to actually strike the ball.

There's also the consideration that both LGFA and camogie use a size 4 ball. In the male version of the games, these aren't used by anybody over the age of 14.

Other sports like women's soccer, rugby, etc., use exactly the same rules as the men's games. I think it might be a boost for camogie and ladies football if they dropped the rule changes that are presumably there to make it "easier" for women to play.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470286#Comment_122470286

I half agree with you. But I think the ladies should play on shortened pitches. And the distance of 45's should be shortened.

The women always struggle to kick from any decent range. It really reminds me of when Jason Sherlock was a young fella. He couldn't kick points unless near in. On the flip side he did cause a few goals by dropping shots short.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470286#Comment_122470286

You're wrong about both of those for Camogie

You aren't allowed drop the hurl anymore on purpose. It's called for a foul and happens a fair bit

You also are not allowed score with the hand anymore

Personally I think high level Camogie is a great sport, but about 50% of scores from play come from the middle sector from the 21 to the 45. If you have a long range scorer and solid long range free taker you're golden

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469407#Comment_122469407

I thought Emma Duggan lobbed the keeper for Meath's goal in that final vs. Dublin, after Dublin messed up a short kickout?

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472038#Comment_122472038

I stand corrected on the one about dropping the hurl. Am not afraid to admit when I'm wrong!

I stand half-corrected on the one about hand passing for scores. Turns out it's still allowed to score a point that way, but not a goal. So you stand half-corrected on that one too :)

Am actually glad to have learned these things, as the changes show the Camogie Association has done something to bring the game more into line with hurling. Still think it would be a good move for the LGFA to ban the pick-up from the ground.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472795#Comment_122472795

For what it’s worth, I have other 30,000 worth of scores data in Camogie between shot location, methods etc and there hasn’t been one handed point scored in that! I suppose in that sense they didn’t need to get rid of the handed point rule!

But ya, Camogie is far more progressive.

Agreed at LGFA rule of picking up needing changing. Just makes it look poor and less skillful.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472206#Comment_122472206

Correct, it must have been a point Troy got that I was mixing up she scored two points from corner back,

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/meath-dublin-match-report-all-ireland-ladies-football-senior-final-2021-482972

sligeach

I meant to post the attendance for the 3 camogie finals in Croke Park on Sunday. It was 27,811. If you combined the women's football finals(30,340) with the camogie finals, Croke Park wouldn't even be 3/4's way full. Those games shouldn't be held there in my opinion.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507794#Comment_122507794

Those games shouldn't be held there in my opinion.

Why not ?

How did the playing of those games in Croke Park adversely affect you?

I was at the ladies football final, and there was a great atmosphere there.

It was an atmosphere primarily generated by kids and young people, but it was great.

It was a million times better than the atmosphere at the Donegal v Louth and Kerry v Derry games a few weeks earlier, which had a much bigger crowd in attendance.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507794#Comment_122507794

Ah, but you could say the same about something like the annual triple-header of the Christy Ring, Nickey Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup Finals. The attendance on one of those days wouldn't even approach the attendance figure for Camogie or LGFA Finals day.

So do you deny the hurlers from all those counties the chance to win a trophy in Croke Park too, and instead make them play their final in some much smaller and far less glamourous provincial ground?

sligeach

Wrong thread.

sligeach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509693#Comment_122509693

Look at the teams involved, Kildare v Derry, Donegal v Mayo and Fermanagh v Longford. Not exactly hurling strongholds. Hurling isn't strong outside of Munster, Galway and select Leinster counties.

"So do you deny the hurlers from all those counties the chance to win a trophy in Croke Park too, and instead make them play their final in some much smaller and far less glamourous provincial ground?"

If the attendances aren't big enough, then yes.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511249#Comment_122511249

Presume your last line should read if the attendances aren't big enough, then yes, you would deny the hurlers from those counties the chance to play in Croke Park.

All I'll say in reply is that if you're only ever going to open Croke Park when it's likely to be three-quarters full or more, then you won't be opening it very often.

Let's take another example. Presume you're from Sligo (because of your username) and presume you've an interest in gaelic games matters (because of how you're in this forum).

Say your club makes it to the county final. What would be the point of playing it in Markievicz Park, if it wasn't going to be at least three-quarters full? That would be roughly 14,000 of its approx. 18,500 capacity. You'd be in favour of playing it in some much smaller club ground instead?

Or when would you bother opening Markievicz Park at all then, apart from the odd Connacht Senior Football Championship match when you're likely to have a near capacity crowd? All the other club matches held there, the National League matches in both football and hurling, and the Tailteann Cup matches can all sod off to some much smaller ground, since what's the point of opening Markievicz Park for a relative handful of people?

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469081#Comment_122469081

And men don't have the interest in women's sport that they have in men's sports.

Not sure that that's really true - I'm pretty sure we all watched Rashidat in the 400m and the relay team without complaining that they are several seconds slower than the men's races.

I don't necessarily buy the whole argument about the lower quality being the main reason for lower attendances either, we all know that loads of the mens games are going to be sh*te nowadays and while numbers have fallen back, lots of us still go to them.

IMO, a good whack of it is habit, we've never gone to the women's matches so therefore we don't go. It's also not seen as an "event" in the same way that the mens is - it's the same reason that (almost) every year, you can get loads of tickets for the semi finals but tickets for the final are impossible to get. Similarly, you don't get massive numbers at most LoI games but you'll get loads travelling to the UK for matches every week.

I actually think the Lidl ads are quite good - if they can get a reasonable number of people (esp young kids) going to the matches, over time this will become a habit and numbers overall will increase. More needs to be done around marketing of fixtures though, it can be hard to find out what matches are on and when, it really doesn't help when that information isn't readily available.