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Child Item

All Ireland GAA final & All Ireland LGFA final

Tombo2001

Last weekend tickets couldnt be had for love nor money at €100 a pop. I had folks from Galway telling me they had looked everywhere and were desperate.

This weekend, the tickets are on Ticketmaster for €30 for adults and €15 for kids, and they arent anywhere close to selling out the lower tier of Croke Park.

What is the issue here?

I know people like to have a pop at LGFA, and the camogie association. And they like to have a pop (rightly) that the women arent as well funded.

But its been pretty well documented that these games are happening. The tickets are easy to get.

The only people responsible for putting bums on seats here are the Gaelic Football communities of Kerry, Galway, Tyrone, Leitrim, Fermanagh and Louth. Why arent they supporting their teams? Especially, why arent the women in these counties supporting their teams? Why arent the parents with young girls in GAA clubs in these counties supporting their teams?

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celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468659#Comment_122468659

I don't know if it is even the quality that is the issue with it not been supported it could be part of it but I've been to many LGFA club games that have been an enjoyable watch. People grow up supporting there club and county men's team from a young age and that is there teams.

Ladies football is alien to many and they don't need/want another team to follow.

[Deleted User]

Women do not have interest in sport in general the same way men do.

This is it.

And men don't have the interest in women's sport that they have in men's sports.

I the short to medium term the ladies finals are never going to go much beyond the 50k attendance you saw a few years ago because at that 50k you have maxed out the people interested in and able to attend.

Maybe in a few decades the current crop of young girls that are becoming fans will continue to support the game and attendance will increase, but your not going to get adults, female or male, who are not interested now to start becoming interested.

I went on Sunday, just because my wife and kids were going (my wife and daughter are big fans), and even though I help out with an u14 team, I'm not that interested.

I'd have just as easily stayed at home and not even watched it on TV.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468668#Comment_122468668

Look pal if all you can do is sneer then please **** off to some other conversation. There is a real nasty tone to your commentary.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469114#Comment_122469114

There was no need for the snarkiness in the post but there is an element of truth to it.

I don't live in Ireland and so don't attend GAA games for either men or women. If i have a choice of going to men or womens then ill go to men because its normally a better game. Pretending that isn't the case is just going to disappoint people if they do attend a women's game.

I have a season ticket for my local soccer team. I also bring my daughter to the local womens games as i want to show her women can play sports. There is no way i would go otherwise as the game just isn't as good and i have limited time to watch games.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122468586#Comment_122468586

I was at that one myself the year Meath had the shock win v Dublin - after Meath won junior.

Meath played counter attacking, Emma Troy Meath right corner back scored a goal, from an obvious pre-planned move.

The problem with the ladies football there are few games of the high level of that game. A lot of games in ladies football can be ridiculously one sided affairs as there is not the depth in the game.

—

Plus let's be honest the makeup of that crowd in the Meath/Dublin final not a normal GAA match crowd. Most of the crowd were really young girls/kids who get tickets "free" based on their GAA membership with clubs.

But yet the commentators talk up an historic crowd and so on. It is not truthful chat.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469144#Comment_122469144

To your point:

Maybe when they get older, your daughters will want to watch the womens football instead of the mens, just as you'd rather watch the mens. And then they'll appreciate you bringing them when they were kids.
Noting that its you bringing them and not their mum, thats the big unspoken part of the 'womens sport' debate for me. When it comes to giving up time to coach the u14 girls team, by and large its the men who do it. Women dont. They could, but they dont.

Uncle Pierre

Just to throw something else into the mix here about the differences in how the men's and women's games are perceived -

I think LGFA and camogie aren't helped by how they play simplified versions of the games. Even leaving aside the whole issue of the tackle, examples are:

In LGFA, you can pick the ball straight from the ground, and throw it from one hand to the other.
In camogie, you can drop the hurl if you're in a tight spot, and you can score from a hand pass, instead of having to find a way to actually strike the ball.

There's also the consideration that both LGFA and camogie use a size 4 ball. In the male version of the games, these aren't used by anybody over the age of 14.

Other sports like women's soccer, rugby, etc., use exactly the same rules as the men's games. I think it might be a boost for camogie and ladies football if they dropped the rule changes that are presumably there to make it "easier" for women to play.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470286#Comment_122470286

I half agree with you. But I think the ladies should play on shortened pitches. And the distance of 45's should be shortened.

The women always struggle to kick from any decent range. It really reminds me of when Jason Sherlock was a young fella. He couldn't kick points unless near in. On the flip side he did cause a few goals by dropping shots short.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470286#Comment_122470286

You're wrong about both of those for Camogie

You aren't allowed drop the hurl anymore on purpose. It's called for a foul and happens a fair bit

You also are not allowed score with the hand anymore

Personally I think high level Camogie is a great sport, but about 50% of scores from play come from the middle sector from the 21 to the 45. If you have a long range scorer and solid long range free taker you're golden

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469407#Comment_122469407

I thought Emma Duggan lobbed the keeper for Meath's goal in that final vs. Dublin, after Dublin messed up a short kickout?

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472038#Comment_122472038

I stand corrected on the one about dropping the hurl. Am not afraid to admit when I'm wrong!

I stand half-corrected on the one about hand passing for scores. Turns out it's still allowed to score a point that way, but not a goal. So you stand half-corrected on that one too :)

Am actually glad to have learned these things, as the changes show the Camogie Association has done something to bring the game more into line with hurling. Still think it would be a good move for the LGFA to ban the pick-up from the ground.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472795#Comment_122472795

For what it’s worth, I have other 30,000 worth of scores data in Camogie between shot location, methods etc and there hasn’t been one handed point scored in that! I suppose in that sense they didn’t need to get rid of the handed point rule!

But ya, Camogie is far more progressive.

Agreed at LGFA rule of picking up needing changing. Just makes it look poor and less skillful.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122472206#Comment_122472206

Correct, it must have been a point Troy got that I was mixing up she scored two points from corner back,

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/meath-dublin-match-report-all-ireland-ladies-football-senior-final-2021-482972

sligeach

I meant to post the attendance for the 3 camogie finals in Croke Park on Sunday. It was 27,811. If you combined the women's football finals(30,340) with the camogie finals, Croke Park wouldn't even be 3/4's way full. Those games shouldn't be held there in my opinion.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507794#Comment_122507794

Those games shouldn't be held there in my opinion.

Why not ?

How did the playing of those games in Croke Park adversely affect you?

I was at the ladies football final, and there was a great atmosphere there.

It was an atmosphere primarily generated by kids and young people, but it was great.

It was a million times better than the atmosphere at the Donegal v Louth and Kerry v Derry games a few weeks earlier, which had a much bigger crowd in attendance.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507794#Comment_122507794

Ah, but you could say the same about something like the annual triple-header of the Christy Ring, Nickey Rackard and Lory Meagher Cup Finals. The attendance on one of those days wouldn't even approach the attendance figure for Camogie or LGFA Finals day.

So do you deny the hurlers from all those counties the chance to win a trophy in Croke Park too, and instead make them play their final in some much smaller and far less glamourous provincial ground?

sligeach

Wrong thread.

sligeach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122509693#Comment_122509693

Look at the teams involved, Kildare v Derry, Donegal v Mayo and Fermanagh v Longford. Not exactly hurling strongholds. Hurling isn't strong outside of Munster, Galway and select Leinster counties.

"So do you deny the hurlers from all those counties the chance to win a trophy in Croke Park too, and instead make them play their final in some much smaller and far less glamourous provincial ground?"

If the attendances aren't big enough, then yes.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511249#Comment_122511249

Presume your last line should read if the attendances aren't big enough, then yes, you would deny the hurlers from those counties the chance to play in Croke Park.

All I'll say in reply is that if you're only ever going to open Croke Park when it's likely to be three-quarters full or more, then you won't be opening it very often.

Let's take another example. Presume you're from Sligo (because of your username) and presume you've an interest in gaelic games matters (because of how you're in this forum).

Say your club makes it to the county final. What would be the point of playing it in Markievicz Park, if it wasn't going to be at least three-quarters full? That would be roughly 14,000 of its approx. 18,500 capacity. You'd be in favour of playing it in some much smaller club ground instead?

Or when would you bother opening Markievicz Park at all then, apart from the odd Connacht Senior Football Championship match when you're likely to have a near capacity crowd? All the other club matches held there, the National League matches in both football and hurling, and the Tailteann Cup matches can all sod off to some much smaller ground, since what's the point of opening Markievicz Park for a relative handful of people?

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122469081#Comment_122469081

And men don't have the interest in women's sport that they have in men's sports.

Not sure that that's really true - I'm pretty sure we all watched Rashidat in the 400m and the relay team without complaining that they are several seconds slower than the men's races.

I don't necessarily buy the whole argument about the lower quality being the main reason for lower attendances either, we all know that loads of the mens games are going to be sh*te nowadays and while numbers have fallen back, lots of us still go to them.

IMO, a good whack of it is habit, we've never gone to the women's matches so therefore we don't go. It's also not seen as an "event" in the same way that the mens is - it's the same reason that (almost) every year, you can get loads of tickets for the semi finals but tickets for the final are impossible to get. Similarly, you don't get massive numbers at most LoI games but you'll get loads travelling to the UK for matches every week.

I actually think the Lidl ads are quite good - if they can get a reasonable number of people (esp young kids) going to the matches, over time this will become a habit and numbers overall will increase. More needs to be done around marketing of fixtures though, it can be hard to find out what matches are on and when, it really doesn't help when that information isn't readily available.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519082#Comment_122519082

Not sure that that's really true - I'm pretty sure we all watched Rashidat in the 400m and the relay team without complaining that they are several seconds slower than the men's races.

That's very different.

That's an Olympic games, people will watch regardless.

But take a Mayo v Galway ladies championship game over a Mayo v Galway mens championship game.

More men, both neutral and partisan, are going to watch the men's game than the women's game.

Same goes for soccer.

Same with sports like tennis where the ladies game is longer established.

The ATP is a much bigger, more popular, more successful animal than the WTA.

I don't think the assertion that men prefer to watch men's sports over women's sports is up for debate, if it was there would be bigger crowds and bigger TV audiences for ladies sports.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122470286#Comment_122470286

Maybe but there's been talk for ages about how womens rugby should actually change to using a size 4 ball down from size 5 as it might help improve game. Some of those changes/adaptations are to help the game and don't see why the women's game should completely ape men's game.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519145#Comment_122519145

But the fact that everyone is happy to watch men & women as equals in the Olympics establishes that it's not a universal truth that "men don't have the interest in women's sport that they have in men's sports".

I agree that in general, men's events attract bigger audiences but again, I think it's a habit thing which can be addressed (to a reasonable extent at least) rather than an inherent lack of interest

The difficult part for the LGFA is establishing women's GAA into that habit that people have and will attend in large numbers. It's not an impossibility though

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519414#Comment_122519414

Was unaware of any talk about using a size 4 ball in women's rugby, but have just done some googling, and seems there's a real 50/50 divide in opinion on it. Also read a story on BBC Sport from earlier this year about how trials with a size 4.5 ball.

Either way, I'd actually consider the size of the ball to be relatively insignificant in terms of what I mentioned. More significant is the fact that women's rugby players would still be playing to same rules as the men's game, unlike in the LGFA, where those couple of things are simplified in order to make the game easier to play.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122519521#Comment_122519521

The Olympics is very different though. Its on once every four years and it requires very little effort to watch. Free to air. Sit in the armchair. I think this thread is about attendances and people not taking the three/four hours (and more in many cases) to go to watch female sports in person. Time, ticket cost, travel cost etc. Its not comparable.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122520680#Comment_122520680

Yes. Olympics is basically a TV event once every four years when people sit back at home to watch stuff (both men's and women's) that they don't normally watch. For example, taking just Irelands medal-winning performances, I'd say I hadn't watched things like amateur boxing, rowing, or gymnastics since the last Olympics.

MacDanger

I agree that the Olympics is an "event" and that's why people watch it but that's basically my point - it's not that people have an inherent disinterest in sport when it's played by women, they'll have an interest when something is a habit and when it's an event. It's up to the LGFA to sell that habit to people and it's going to many years to do it but it's not an impossibility

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122522372#Comment_122522372

It is going to be hard for them as they are playing games at same times/weekends as mens matches and there will only be one winner there im afraid.

joebloggs32

The camogie attendance was decent considering that the intermediate final had Cork in it so no extra bums on seats really as they were in the senior final. Had Offaly beat them.in the semifinal it eould have brought a few more thousand to the game.

Similarly Kilkenny contesting the intermediate and Tipp in the junior final wouldn't be a great draw for supporters from those counties as it was the second team from their county, so not too much hype locally for them.

One thing I'm surprised at is that the Camogie Association has not followed the LGFA in making the purchase of tickets a requirement for annual registration. If every club has 10 tickets sitting there someone will probably take them and use them. A

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122525771#Comment_122525771

When you think about it, your last paragraph really does illustrate how the first challenge in attracting bigger attendances to the camogie and LGFA finals is presented by how even the people directly involved in those codes aren't particularly interested in going to the finals.

Every GAA club in the country must be inundated with requests for its allocation of tickets for the hurling & football finals. Mine certainly is.

However, LGFA clubs have to be made buy tickets for their finals, and obviously camogie clubs don't go looking for tickets for their finals in any great numbers either, if the suggestion is that they should just be made buy them too.

Anyway, just an observation. When all's said and done, 25,000 to 30,000 is actually a very healthy attendance compared to probably 98% of sporting events in this country. Perhaps we should be comparing the LGFA and camogie finals attendances to all those other events, rather than comparing them directly to the men's finals.