AI in Civil Service

defiantdancer

hello there, I have just started in a new role in the Civil Service & am still finding my feet as where I have been assigned is totally new to me. I was going through the PMDS form on Skype with my manager today. I was amending something & deleting a phrase when a co pilot box pop up appeared in the sentence. My manager asked me was I using AI? I am the most unsavvy IT person going so the genuinely honest answer is no. I did state that & said he was free to check my laptop. However, I don’t think he believed me. After our conversation, I googled to see exactly what Co pilot is. I see it is an AI assistant offered by Microsoft. Would the reason it popped up be an ad offering it by Microsoft? My other question is are these laptops recycled? Should I contact OGCIO & ask them to remotely scan my laptop? Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill? I am just very upset here as I genuinely hadn’t downloaded anything like that. I also thought I had been developing a good relationship with my manager & now I am concerned that is jeopardised. I am also quite an anxious person by nature so this has really upset me. I have looked just now at the Civil Service’s statement on AI to understand more about it. Any advice would be welcomed. All I can think of is I did look at Grammarly which was recommended by NALA as sometimes I make mistakes with my grammar, punctuation etc. however, I didn’t download it as I am extremely conscious what I download on a work computer. I even asked permission before I downloaded Spotify so I could listen to instrumental focus music while working in the office when it is noisy.

pygmaliondreams

The OGCIO have the real AI features of co-pilot blocked as far as I'm aware, at the very least in the Departments I've worked in.

It will still show up if you're using Bing but you can just change that over to Google even if you're using the Microsoft Edge browser, maybe someone in IT in your Department can give you pointers if you're not sure how to do that.

My understanding is that it isn't downloaded software but is a part of other MS software.

Firstly, your manager should have some faith in you instead of making accusations. On the laptops being recycled, I think the OGCIO have them reimaged but I'm not sure what that entails, hard drives are probably destroyed before anything is sent back out to the Departments, unless it was a laptop already held by your Department in which case it might have some residual files but you wouldn't have any access to these because its a different user account.

defiantdancer

all I can think is when I was doing the introduction to MS word- when I first started-that is how bad my IT skills are-I did look at the Microsoft 365 webpage & looked at all the products that they offer. One of them is obviously co pilot. Would that have caused the pop up?

pygmaliondreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369039#Comment_122369039

Talk to your local IT firstly and if they send you onto the OGCIO contact them then. (The OGCIO can take a while to respond compared to local IT especially recently for some reason). You were filling out your PMDS on the ePMDS site on your web browser right? In that case it'd be something to do with Microsoft Edge rather than M365.

Alternatively, you could just use Google Chrome, usually they'll hand out laptops with both of these applications. It's basically the same.

defiantdancer

@pygmaliondreams thank you for your reply. I am just upset because I genuinely hadn’t been using it. If I had, I would have owned up. I always own my mistakes. I am also upset because deep down, I have been thinking this unit isn’t for me….Today just feels like a major red flag for me🥲I am also tired as the work is totally foreign to me-doesn’t really align with my skill set-& I have been trying to keep on top of it & don’t feel like I am succeeding😔I keep telling myself it is only 6 weeks-it will get better-but now, I am not so sure…

pygmaliondreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369079#Comment_122369079

Depending on what Department you're in you may be able to get onto HR and see if they can move you. I know some people that have been moved from that but it is a little irregular sadly.

I'm not totally in love with where I am right now either but when I think about the jobs I was doing in the private sector before I feel a little better! Would you consider putting in for the EO competition open on public jobs right now? You could use that as a springboard into another role.

Also if you look for the rare privately run competitions they do (like some departments working with Staffline) they generally try to match you to work based on your strong points in the interview. A problem with PAS/publicjobs is that everyones just randomly assigned…

defiantdancer

@pygmaliondreams thank you. This is all very good advice-I had been mulling over doing the EO open competition but this has confirmed it for me. I think I need to have a back up plan now just in case.

pygmaliondreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369146#Comment_122369146

Absolutely sure and put in for mobility as well I put in on my first day because even if I was to love where I am right now god knows how you'll feel in 2 years time.

defiantdancer

@pygmaliondreams thank u-that is also good advice. I will do that as well.

FunkyChicken24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369058#Comment_122369058

My expereince is that our local IT are good for getting equipment off but OGCIO are awesome when it comes to function issues. I rarely submit a ticket, I just call the helpdesk number as there is always somone there to answer and usually my problem requires some discussion. If you call the helpdesk number you will always get help right away and I would suggest for something like the OPs problem it might be better to find out right away if somehow that CoPilot function has managed to get on to your laptop unauthorised as if it is a security breach they need to know asap.

The OGCIO have moved to a new ticketing platform recently btw so if you find them taking longer than usual, do check that you are using the new platform, I know they are monitoring the old one for a while but want everyone to move to the new one.

I have set up Google Chrome to be my default browser, not least as it saves my login details for all the various platforms we have to use which makes my life a lot easier but generally I prefer the functionality. I do use Edge to open Circulars and other long docs in (save to pdf first if they aren't already) and then use the read aloud function in Edge (they have a nice Irish voice which is relatively natural) as listening to the documents being read at the same as me reading them helps me to concentrate and get through them. I have ADHD but I think even if you don't it can make it easier to get through some of these things that are a tad dry and lengthy.

defiantdancer

@FunkyChicken24 thank u-I will do that as still very upset the morning. May I ask u-what is the difference between using Microsoft edge & Chrome? Yes, that is how bad my IT skills are!

Mrs OBumble

What exactly is the problem with using AI ? Surely using any tools that make your work better or faster is a good thing?

Collie D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370297#Comment_122370297

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet_%28Terminator%29

Jj

PaybackPayroll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370297#Comment_122370297

I don't get this either.

I would have thought using AI would be seen as a positive. I use AI the whole time myself, increasing productivity hugely.

hungerjames

Once you explained yourself you're fine, your anxiety about your new position in general is forcing you to linger on the moment.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370297#Comment_122370297

Have you read the terms and conditions of the service? Where is your data being held? What are they allowed to do with your data?

There are loads of organisations that have explicitly blocked and banned AI tools because they have no way of validating the answers to those questions.

Ted222

I think you’re worrying unnecessarily.

The laptops they give you to work from home are configured in a way that prevents you from downloading anything they don’t want you to have.

AI can serve to improve the way but work so, even if you were using it, why should it be a bad thing?

It sounds to me like you don’t seem to have a comfortable relationship with your manager and that you’re fretting unreasonably at every minor interaction. Perhaps going into the office more often and having more of those informal “water cooler” moments would help to build the relationship to an acceptable level. It’s important to get to know colleagues outside the limitations of the work itself.

Space Dog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370297#Comment_122370297

We're not allowed to use AI for anything containing personal data or documents that are confidential, might be similar in the civil service?

defiantdancer

hello all, thank you all for your helpful comments. I rang OGCIO the morning. The guy was very nice & checked the laptop-nothing on it. He also thinks it was a pop up ad triggered by me looking at Microsoft 365 home page previously. He advised me to take a screenshot by snipping tool if it happens again & send it onto them. I explained this to my manager & he accepted it. We did actually have a good talk & cleared the air. As @hungerjames said,I am anxious about the new job & lingered on this moment too long. Also @Ted222 said is very true. My manager is a very nice guy and has been very supportive. However, we are still getting to know each other. Also , normally I am very good at managing my anxiety through exercise & meeting with friends but I have let the new role consume me so I have to rectify that. I really appreciate being able to post here & getting other people’s perspectives-they have really helped today. Have a lovely chill out weekend everybody😄

Ted222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122372819#Comment_122372819

Thanks for response. You sound very conscientious and I’m sure you’re doing wonderfully despite your own misgivings.

Onwards and upwards. They’re lucky to have you I’d say.

spark_tank

I've had a similar or same notification on my work computer (also Civil Service). It asked did I want CoPilot to review/improve my text if I remember correctly.

For what it's worth I use AI a fair bit in work. Always careful never to input anything that might be a GDPR issue but AI is often helping me phrase paragraphs or writing formulas.

If anyone ever asks if I'm using it I'd happily say yes. I don't see the issue.

I do sometimes wonder if there was the same hesitancy towards spreadsheets when they first came on the scene!

FunkyChicken24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370266#Comment_122370266

Sorry for the delay coming back to you. Glad to hear you got things resolved though.

The difference between Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome is largely a matter of taste. Some might argue that Google Chrome is a better browser because so much of the internet is shaped by Google's search technology and system and a large percentage of the the internet is optimised for it. Personally, I prefer the user interface and settings of Chrome, I am less familiar with Microsoft Edge so I don't like it as much. I particularly like the fact that Chrome has a password manager built in so it remembers all my login details and passwords for me. At the end of the day though, they are both internet browsers so the choice is yours.

Regarding your manager's negative vibe towards using AI, it may well be because it is seen as cheating in some circles. As in you are not doing your own work. There is a real problem in education of students have AI write essays etc for them, and then certain forms of AI stealing from artists etc. It may be that they hadn't really thought it through in the context of what you were trying to do and it was just their gut response. I'm sure AI will be useful in some situations but I haven't yet found a purpose for it that makes me want to embrace it as a tool.

defiantdancer

@FunkyChicken24 apologies only seen your thoughtful response now. Thank you-all of that really does help!

Calahonda52

OP, you need to confront and deal with your self proclaimed anxiety and recognise it for what it is.

There are plenty ways of doing this, PM me if you want some suggestions

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370297#Comment_122370297

Seriously? Ok, assuming you're not just trolling, what do you understand AI to be?

As to the problems:

• Common "AI" interfaces such as ChatGPT and Co-pilot just straight make **** up, and lie about the sources: - https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/29/tech/ai-chatbot-hallucinations/index.html (sorry, the AI fans call it "hallucinations")
  
  That might be fine if you're writing a secondary school essay about what you did on your summer holidays. Less so if you're writing a document feeding in to decisions that will have an impact in the real world.
  
• Theft. Using any sort of AI art generator for a design for your website, a brochure, or whatever? Yeah, that AI has been "trained" on artwork the AI didn't own and you don't own, ripping off the work of real artists. You don't want your business associated with that.
  
• Privacy. Are you using customer or client information with your "AI" tool? You have a Data Processing agreement with the owner of the AI? You know where the data is being saved? It's all fully compliant with GDPR and EU data-sharing regulations?

turbodiesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058359232/ai-in-civil-service

About the Anxiety: have you tried mushrooms, as in Traditional Chinese Medicine type mushrooms, not magic Mushrooms.

I recently tried an Irish brand of Mushroom infused coffee. The brand is OYL coffee and it's owned by the same guy that owns the Dublin Barista School.

I found it very helpful for anxiety and replaced my normal 3 caffeine coffees with just this one in the morning. I'm not affiliated to the stuff or the owner, I just bought some in June and found it worked for me. 92% coffee grind and 8% mushroom (3 types).

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122447989#Comment_122447989

I had a wee chuckle about this post / thread when I was reading the Irish Times last week. Clearly at least Revenue doesn't share your paranoia.

It really doesn't matter what tools / source you use: you need to ensure that data is fit for purpose, adequately stored, and legally obtained. There is nothing I'm aware of which makes tools that use machine learning intrinsically unsuitable for public sector use - an more that for private sector use. There are some really exciting possibilities, especially in healthcare, public or privately owned.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548408#Comment_122548408

Googling the question "How much has Google invested in AI?" that same AI [Google's], now baked into the search engine, reports that "In April 2024, Google CEO Demis Hassabis said that Google would spend more than $100 billion." ~ https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/27/opinion_ai_ml/

And you want that - or similar, from a smaller, poorer company - to make decisions on your healthcare? You do you, by all means. I'll stick to human consultants, thanks all the same.

BhoyRayzor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548408#Comment_122548408

I'm not sure what you're interpreting from that but it's not as if AI is rampant in Revenue. More so used for directing messages from people to the right area to be dealt with and probably a chatbot as well to answer simple queries.

From the 2023 annual report: 'In 2023, we extended the deployment of AI and Natural Language Processing technologies to auto-classify 85% of all queries submitted to MyEnquiries. These advancements simplify the user experience by removing the need for taxpayers to self-categorise their enquiry. Under the auto-classification process the accuracy of query categorisation has increased to 97% and the overall time it takes for queries to be routed to the appropriate subject matter expert has reduced by more than 24 hours.'

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556167#Comment_122556167

I was responding to a poster who claimed that AI is banned from use in the public service.

Clearly, it isn't. It's just another tool which can be used by intelligent hymans to speed up processes - sometimes massively, usually by a lot let.

I wish that poster well if s/he is ever in a consultants rooms with symptoms that don't match usual patterns. Or indeed having to ask a very specific but niche query of Revenue and trying to figure out how to direct that query to the very small team responsible for the particular niche.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122556854#Comment_122556854

Are you referring to me? Where did I say AI is banned from use in the public service?

The government has published guidelines on the use of AI in the public service. It's most certainly permitted. Whether that's wise or not is an entirely different story. There are use cases where AI is definitely an option, even if not necessarily the best one - chatbots and cybersecurity, for example. But it's actually a stretch to call those apps "AI" at all.

An AI app deciding if someone with poor literacy skills is entitled to a medical card or a particular benefit? **** that ****.

I notice you haven't replied at all about AI lying hallucinating, making up citations from whole cloth, or not knowing who the CEO of its own company is. But you're happy to have AI diagnose a condition with symptoms that don't match usual patterns? Jebus.

Can I also ask - when someone queries Revenue's chatbot with a very specific but niche query and it fails to figure out how to direct that query to the very small team responsible for the particular niche - who will the query be passed to? Oh yes - a human.

AlanG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122370297#Comment_122370297

TYhe main risk with using AI is the terms and conditions on most free AI offerings and the risk of inappropriate data being shared. There is a lack of understaniding of data protection in a lot of younger workers who enter the workplace having used AI throughout college without giving it a second thought

If you wouldn't hand a report / question to a stranger on the street or a random website to review and summarise then dont give it to a free AI engine, they are just different intelligent entities. Even many of the paid services do not guarentee confidentiality and you may be in breach of EU or data protection law if you put the wrong information into them.