Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

Caustic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122983721#Comment_122983721

Christ didn't realize this and that's with a penalty for them, that's madness we are getting no luck either side of the pitch now it seems

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984112#Comment_122984112

I think all our games under Amorim have had higher XG for than against, some players are really letting themselves down.

Caustic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984137#Comment_122984137

Well it's good in the theoretical sense anyways and ties in with what I said earlier about cleaning up individual errors and stuff, this could just be a little bit of a run of bad luck too which could flip because under ten hagg we massively over performed defensively as far as I remember

kyleman

Stats are not much different than same game last season which was deemed as one of the low points of Eths reign .

Amorim gets great praise for getting the best out of Amad but some players have really regressed especially Martinez ,Mainoo and Garnacho.

Early days but we can’t continue like this with the game over with 30 minutes left.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984176#Comment_122984176

Martinez hasn't been great since the injuries, I think they've take their toll.

Mainoo seems burned out, he's also had a few injuries too.

Garnacho I don't think he suits the new system which is a shame, unless he wants to adapt to either a wing back or one of the attacking mids he will probably push to leave.

Iseedeadpixels

Didn't take long for the Amorim out crowd to emerge (not here) christ I hate modern football social media.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984068#Comment_122984068

The club have made significant losses over the last 4 or 5 years, in the hundreds of millions range. The staffing cuts are an attempt to try stem some of that no doubt but the money to buy another half a billion team isn't there. The club has had more than enough turkeys. They've spent tens of millions on early contract terminations in the past 6 years alone.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984239#Comment_122984239

i disagree. the media would have went for him but for ruud failing miserably.

once he doesnt wilt, and gets some players in, it should be fine.

like we have the bones of a very good team

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984176#Comment_122984176

The stats are a lot different just look at possession and chance creation for a start. We are conceding due to stupid individual errors and hopefully a lot of those players will be shown the door.

Martinez has been fairly poor since he returned from his multiple injuries.

Mainoo has been good so I'm not sure where that's coming from. He's a young player but his talent is undeniable.

Garnacho is a one trick pony and even under ETH he don't do much outside of spam the shoot button.

It's early days and results will have to improve but until we sort out that left hand side we are going to continue to struggle.

Mainoo is clearly incredibly talented technically but he can't physically or tactically hang with PL midfielders. Would be a good project player for Amorim to mould but he's another that a loan would suit but because he's got the profile he does won't happen now and will be developed by making mistakes for United rather than elsewhere.

It'll likely be 3 or 4 seasons for him to be a consistent high level starter if he keeps progressing.

He also has a habit of slowly jogging back after losing the ball (which happens a lot more than it should) I've noticed but I think he seems to be more developed in his attacking play than defensive play so understandable he doesn't enjoy it after a year of being bypassed in defensive transition. Hopefully it's an attitude thing and not a physical thing as one can be overcome, the physical thing takes more to work out.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984272#Comment_122984272

I'm talking about our own fans on social media.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984256#Comment_122984256

I agree that we may be short on funds to improve the team, although that has been said for years and we still end up coming up with cash, for donkeys like Antony and crocks like Mount. I do expect us to buy in January and again in the summer but the level of spending will no doubt be linked to shifting Rashford and maybe (hopefully) the likes of Antony, Casemiro etc. Mount and Shaw we'll likely be stuck with until their contracts run down and I don't hold much hope for either of them to recover from their injury issues.

My post was just addressing the suggestion from many (not you) who think that the cuts to the club staff, the Christmas bonus saga, the stewarding cuts etc have anything to do with the transfer and playing salary budget. It's not like Sir Jim walked in the door and asked how we can save money for a new striker and Dave Brailsford answers "well Doris from the canteen can go for a start"…

That does seem to be the feeling from a lot of people when they hear about the background cost cutting. My point is that even if we were flying high on top of the league and the Europa, still in the league cup and gunning for a quadruple, Doris from the canteen would still be out on her ear.

Mantis Toboggan

We're so bad now that if we lose the next 4 or 5 games Amorim's position will be seriously under threat.

Would I be confident giving him 50 million to spend when he could be out the door in weeks? No chance.

There's a decent squad there, if he's not getting the best out of them then I wouldn't give him a cent.

That's the mistakes of the past, we can't spend our way out of this.

larchielads

are we questioning the manager now for not improving whats there? I would like to give him a chance wit a mixture of his own and improving some of whats there to be competitive.

ericzeking

Curveball…..The problem at United was crystal clear in the instagram post of Amrabats agent/brother from the plane the day he was signing for United. It said something to the effect of 'We did it'.

Just signing for United is the end goal for so many players, the pay day, thinking you have made it to the biggest club in the world, all that means that mentally you are just not going to be at the required level. Couple that with the proven signings that were on the downward and overpaid to come.

The old adage of it only takes a couple of bad apples….

Remember Rooneys Overlap where he was talking about the dancing and nonsense in the dressing room, that culture must still be there.

We are at nothing really. Ruben Amorim, Erik Ten Hag, it doesn't really matter.

I hate the mantra of 'get rid of the deadwood' or the whole 'these players' schtick but there is something fundamentally wrong with the attitude in the dressing room, it manifests itself in individual errors, lack of effort, lack of that drive to stick it in the net.

Things might be 99% good as per the stats above but the final 1% gets a 'yerra I get paid anyway'. 99% isn't good enough against lads from Bournemouth, fighting for their lives to make it to, ironically enough, Man United.

randd1

I'd take relegation and trigger the release clauses, put our faith in the younger players to bring us straight back up, and start from there to be honest. This group of players, this club, just don't have the mentality. Get rid completely, rebuild from scratch, and go from there. Something drastic needs to happen with this squad. I'd take a few years of pain for long term health. And in all honesty, I don't see how things can be worse than they are now.

I can't understand just how bad these players are. I can't understand how respected coaches can't get them to defend, to chase down, to pass. They're a lost cause a lot of them, average players and cast-offs.

And yet, there's plenty of teams out there with bang average players who are busting a gut, are well organised. Our most recent humiliators Bournemouth, for example. Or Brentford. Or Forest. Or Newcastle, Fulham, Brighton.

As for Amorim, he has shown some improvement in terms of ball retention and creating chances, but has shown nothing so far in terms of improving the defending, and set pieces have been beyond bad. And the players seem to be as poorly organised as ever. A good coach will at least tried to stem the tide.

How many clubs with a fraction of our resources get new managers and go on a run, or shore things up? The players don't seem to be overly worried, they know the manager will be gone in 18 months, just ride it out. Amorim has to break that mentality, however that's done. But I don't see it so far. Early days I know, but signs things haven't changed on that side of things.

Amorim, if he is to survive long term, is going to start getting a real grip on things. We can't keep losing, and losing badly. He has a massive job on his hands, he needs time, but he also needs utter ruthlessness.

He could drop 15 players, get 15 players in on loan from around Europe and be a much better team. Or pick the youth team instead.

Now that might say a lot about the players currently there and he's only there a few weeks, but he's the manager all the same, and he really needs to start getting things in order, a clear plan of some sort. Plenty of other managers in smaller clubs come in and make things happen form the off. We need something, anything, to ram it home than things are going to be different from now on, and if you're not up to it, you're out, to change the mentality in the dressing room.

My fear is that the club keeps plodding along as it is, the results stay the same, and the manager is gone by the end of the season, and we're back to where we always seem to be.

He needs to start getting results quick, we have some good players and we have some average players, but one thing is certain, bar Diallo and Mazraoui, we have a squad of badly under-performing players that can do a lot better, and if a manager can't make that happen, he'll fall on his sword if the results keep going the way they have been. He needs to get them going, or get rid of them, and show no mercy in doing it. We can't keep changing managers, but we can't keep getting managers who aren't able to make the changes needed either. I hope to God Amorim lays down the law viciously, and quickly too. He's obviously a good coach, now he needs to manage.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984550#Comment_122984550

Sorry but that's reactionary nonsense.

A few games ago we beat the champions. Champions who are on an epic skid yes, but nonetheless we beat them. We've lost a lot of games lately not because the team is shyte and being overrun like in Erik's days, but because of stupid individual errors. Maybe those errors are so frequent because the team isn't playing with confidence due to learning the new system, maybe they just need a kick up the hole.

But Amorim is not under threat, under any circumstances other than (maybe) relegation and that ain't happening.

He openly said that he didn't want to come in mid season, he wanted to come in the summer but the club pressed him to come early because of the departure of ETH. Amorim made it very clear to the fans, and would obviously have said the same to the owners, that he was expecting very hard times ahead but it was necessary to endure that pain in order to break the cycle of mediocrity that the club had been repeating.

Now we have people thinking that they accepted that logic before he signed, but now they're going to boot him out because things are playing out exactly as he said they would? Bare minimum we need a LWB and a striker who can actually find the net. I expect those players to arrive in January. They may be short term options like a loan or a veteran player, but he'll be given the tools to actually play his system. We'll limp to the end of the season, sell Rashford (if he doesn't go in Jan) and bring in some more reinforcements.

I would be extremely surprised if Amorim doesn't get at least the time that ETH did, even if we're still shlt.

Zeek12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984550#Comment_122984550

It's concerning how bad we are defensively and in some respects, in defence particularly, we've actually regressed in the last month with terrible individual errors. We could get sucked into the bottom 4/5 in the New year if we're not careful. And then the pressure would really come on.

But he badly needs a LB/LWB. Shaw is crocked and Malacia, after more than a year out injured, looks unable to step up to the demands of that position. It's unrealistic to say he can't sign anyone imo.

RA needs to get more out of this group for sure but Ineos will also need to recognise there are certain positions that need an upgrade.

As part of that process, a few big salary guys will likely be moved on soon, namely Rashford and Casemiro to start with.

randd1

If Liverpool win their game in hand (and seeing as it's Everton, they almost certainly will), United will be 20 points behind them. After 17 games.

If it continues at the same rate, They'll finish the league on 94 points and a goal difference of 47, and we'll finish on 49 points and goal difference of -2. That's a points difference of 45 and a goal difference of 49.

It just goes to show you the scale of the challenge ahead.

kyleman

There are huge problems at United and we need a few new players but we can’t buy our way out of this mess.

We are just after getting rid of ETH one of the brightest managers in Europe at his time of arrival and replacing him with someone with a very similar profile.

Tweaking of tactics are not going to sort out a mess where the ref may have as well blown the whistle up and with 30 minutes to go yesterday.

Amorim has some job on his hands and he will have to ring in big changes soon as he won’t be allowed limp along until the summer.

FourFourRED

Denying the manager a summer transfer window would be the insane stuff.

GolfPar

I like Amorim and what he is trying to do but what is clear is we don't have the depth of squad to be rotating as much as we have been into the future. Too many players are showing that they simply aren't good enough to be starting for United and when that number becomes 3 or 4 players starting or whatever then we see the problems we have been seeing.

Casemiro is a bit of a strange one in recent weeks that we haven't seen him at all. We know he's not the player for the future but this team is crying out for a bit of experience on the pitch.

roosterman71

I don't get the talk of the players not being good enough. Some fantastic players in that squad. The Utd squad has better players and more of them than an awful lot of teams ahead of them in the league. What's there needs to do more like Bournmouth or Brentford or everyone else. If they cut out the stupid mistakes it would help. Hopefully that will come with coaching

Zeek12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984788#Comment_122984788

Casemiro and Ugarte worked well together in midfield under RVN as Interim manager. There was the foundation for something solid there imo.

Maybe RA is just being pragmatic and realizes he needs to move certain guys out - to clear the way for any new signings. Casemiro with his age profile, and huge salary is probably one of the first that would have to go.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984664#Comment_122984664

Outside of set pieces our defense is actually quite good. If we can sort that out we'll be in a much better place. Our midfield needs more options and the left side is still a huge problem area (has been going on 12 months or more at this stage). We aren't allowing 20+ shots per game, in fact it's in the single digits now which is a huge improvement.

We could see yesterday that once Ugarte went off we lost all control and the players reverted to panicking, with Bruno being the chief culprit and just treated the ball like it was hot potatoes.

I'm genuinely excited to see where we end up under RA but the gaps in the squad need addressing in January or we will end up struggling through this season.

Mitch Connor

One thing I feel we miss without casemiro is presence in the box. He's our best asset, by a country mile, in both boxes.

What I would do is settle on the following 11 where possible, for the short term.

Onana yoro, maguire, martinez, amad, dalot, casemiro, Ugarte, Bruno, garnacho, hojlund.

Amad giving us attacking thrust on the right, garnacho on the left (from am).

A lwb, lcb, cm, rwb, am, st the order I'd probably look at improving the quality of option.

Iseedeadpixels

Imagine wanting your team relegated! We're broke enough as it is and the Championship isn't as easy as people think.

DM_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984770#Comment_122984770

United made their bed so to speak here, they hired a coach with a very set ideal and approach to the game and he arrives with a team/squad no able to play that way.

The team is miles off what he needs and has a real lack of quality up front to help him get through the initial phase of introducing his method.

When relying on players like Hojlund and Garnacho, who don't even want to pass to each other but the looks of it - when both are so young and far from prolific then adding in the issues with Rashford it's going to be a slog.

Amad has played well but is very young and going to be inconsistent.

More tough days ahead but the club have to go all in on giving him lots of time and lots of changes in the summer.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122984957#Comment_122984957

No Mazraoui 😮

Mitch Connor

I'd love us to get Davies, but I'd also try a club ruining triple raid on wolves.

Ait nouri, gomes and cunha would be fantastic signings tbh. But maybe gomes too small when we already lack height in first choices.