Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

ngunners

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774884#Comment_123774884

Throwing him in for the derby might do more harm than good. I'd be looking to ease him in.

The Big Easy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774898#Comment_123774898

I think he's being bought as the number 1, no way he can't be imo

We have to place some trust in the new recruitment processes.

Now having said that I will be upset it Onana or Bayindir continues to be first choice

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774984#Comment_123774984

To be fair it’s like the most basic level of understanding football these days. Konate and Van Dijk combined are costing Liverpool only slightly more than MDL costs United.

If you can’t see that gives them a massive advantage over United then I duno. It’s why they’re signing Isak and Wirtz etc. because the value they’re getting on Konate enables extra spending elsewhere.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774957#Comment_123774957

But PSR is relative to the club. Not the league.

We have revenues of 650+

So MDL is costing 3% of club revenue, or 4.1% of PSR allowance.

So we can afford 17 players at that cost. If he is at the top end, as you say, that is FINE from a PSR perspective.

Could we do better value wise? Yes, probably. Guiehi or however you spell it on 35m fee and 150k a week is probably better. But I don't think it is something to be too upset about. IMO MDL isn't stopping us from doing anything else. IMO you budget per role and position, and I don't think MDL is an issue there. I don't think we are saying we can't afford to sign CB whoever because we have MDL

DM_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774982#Comment_123774982

I don't think so in the context of this season.

Between now and the next window United have around 16 games. One game a week max until the end of November.

The squad already has players that are going to struggle to get game time.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775003#Comment_123775003

So if we keep MDL for 5 years then his costs become tiny, like VVDs are NOW. So he's a great player then?

I understand what you are saying, I just think you are way too 'value' focused.

Garnacho had near zero squad cost, still right to get rid and replace him with Cunha imo. But Cunha is costing us near 15/16/17m more a season? So is Cunha a rubbish signing by that measure?

el Fenomeno

Romano is reporting that Sancho is the reason the Martinez deal didn't go ahead.

It was supposed to be a player swap on permanent transfers, with no transfer fee. But Sancho didn't want a permanent transfer and only wanted to go out on loan.

GolfPar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774918#Comment_123774918

It was reported in The Athletic I think that the Club weren't happy with the condition Onana turned up for pre season training and how he became injured so early into pre season. Looks like it hasn't helped his cause and he needs all the help he can get the useless lump.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775008#Comment_123775008

In the context of the manager he definitely needs a striker and a midfielder. He won't last 16 games without them.

I'm disappointed that the goalkeeper appears to be yet another project player, but I also think that if they sorted the other areas then the goalkeeper would become less of a problem anyway. Even if its Onana in goals, all the focus is on him now but at one stage he was at least serviceable, put a settled team in front of him and he'll get back to that standard at least. A mistake every ten games is shite, but it wouldn't define the season if they had a striker scoring goals.

Seattle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775038#Comment_123775038

This doesn't surprise me. Onana's body language during the Grimsby game gave me a feeling that he's phoning it in and happy to sit on his salary. He doesn't give me an impression that he truly wants to be part of the team and get back to a decent level.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775032#Comment_123775032

Hard to imagine any deal that required Sancho's agreement was ever seriously discussed. They would have known beforehand that they couldn't rely on him to agree anything.

StringerBell

I'd imagine if Mainoo is making noises about playing time it could also be a factor into why we won't be moving for a midfielder (rightly or wrongly) at the end of the window.

Cunha and Mount being injured should see him with more game time too as Bruno moves up to cover the left AM role is the logical thing to do, possibility Zirkzee fills it too of course.

pjohnson

So because Onana thinks he is first choice we should make him first choice?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123774958#Comment_123774958

pjohnson

If Onana plays again it should mark the end of Amorim.

As hard as it would be for Lammens to debut against City I can't imagine it'd do him much good watching Onana make a hape outta everything.

johnnyryan89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775032#Comment_123775032

Probably just spoofing. If it's true then the club need to give their heads a wobble. The man has turned down moves to Chelsea, Roma, and Juventus but they thought he might join Villa to allow them sign a GK. I'd definitely call spoof on that report. There's surely no way the club thought that was a viable situation.

sydthebeat

I don't think lammens is coming in with the view of being happy to be a "project player".

On the international scene this move should immediately jump him to about 3rd NR reckoning for Belgium, behind the (both 33 years) old courtois and sels. The other two keepers that he'd be up against are both uncapped and younger or as young..

I wouldn't be surprised to see him given the No1 spot immediately and for him to hold it.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775038#Comment_123775038

And tbf, from the early photos it looked like shaw, cas etc had really come back in good condition after the summer.

He comes across like he doesn't understand the gravity or seriousness of the current situation and isn't up for the fight/hard yards imo

caviardreams

Would be just about ok to see Altay start another one or two games to ease Lammens in, before he takes over but no way Onana.

paulbok

Two keepers debuting in the derby it seems.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775005#Comment_123775005

So you’re nearly there. What’s missing however is a comparison of that 4.1% PSR hit to other clubs we hope to compete with. You’ll find every other club is getting a relative advantage out of that position which they are using to strengthen elsewhere. You’re getting too focused on ‘it’s only one player’. No problem is ever because of one player. It’s like a household budget. You don’t fix it by cutting one subscription.

MDL is not an egregious example like Sancho, Casemiro. Rashford etc. every club is going to have some players who are grand players but just a bit too expensive. MDL falls into that bucket. It’s not debatebale. Good player. Underperforms his contract by a fair bit. Fact.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775018#Comment_123775018

You’re inadvertently proving my point here. If MDL was indeed worth his current PSR hit, when his contact expired he’d get a massive wage bump or signing on fee to reflect it. In reality he won’t, and his PSR cost will drop significantly to a fairer level which will be an acknowledgement by club and agent that he’s ’not worth his current cost’. Vs Van Dijk who got a massive pay bump which is akin to a large signing on fee.

Not sure what you mean on Cunha. £15-£17m is fine for an elite winger/10 which is what they hope he’ll be. Time will tell if he reaches that level.

This is my world. I have former colleagues and friends who work with pro sports clubs. I’m conscious it’s too detailed for casual fans but all I said was

‘MDL doesn’t perform to his contract’ and people start going in essence

‘but MDL is good’

Fine if that’s level most people want to consume it at. But it’s kinda like saying you want to understand the game without knowing the offside rule.

Relative performance to PSR is the single most important metric in squad building. Period.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775158#Comment_123775158

I'm done with this converstation as your are just being patronizing and passive aggressive. No point in trying to have a discussion with you. "You're nearly there". Right, have fun.

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775174#Comment_123775174

Wasn’t my intention.

Not a world many people are interested in so always exuberant to talk about it when someone engages at a granular level. Apologies it came off like that.

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775158#Comment_123775158

So to your MDL doesn't perform to his contract point. If Utd finish 6th this season and win the FA Cup and MDL plays 85% of the league games and all of the cup games but his level of performance remains as consistent as it has been since he joined, does that mean hes now performing to his contract because hes been here a year longer and the rest of the team have upped their previously lower standards

DataDude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775208#Comment_123775208

Not necessarily. It depends on how much MDL contributes to the team. If United finish 6th it’ll likely mean some players hugely outperformed their contract (Yoro for example is a massive over performer. Amad too and some others).

MDL could easily underperform and United still be very successful. I suspect Salah will underperform his contract for Pool this year and they’ll still likely win the league.

I don’t know how this became contraversial statement. I like De Ligt. He’s a good player. He’s been in our top 5 players this season. I think he’ll start throughout the year.

He’s just the second highest cost CB in the league (I think?) pretty much equal to Van Dijk. He’s just not at that level. I don’t think anyone would argue he is.

I also said Mount. He’s been our best player this year. By far. He still underperforms his contract. Maybe without injuries he could justify but I doubt it.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775228#Comment_123775228

i get what you're saying, and so would all people to a degree.

maguire criticism for example is often caveated with 'it would be fine if he only cost 40m'. that is essentially saying he is underperforming vs his cost.

its just hard to pin down exactly how much someone is under/over performing vs their cost. and it will also vary from observer to observer.

using MDL, you think he is underperforming vs cost, others may say his performance matches his cost. so a degree of subjectivity there.

i think you also need to factor in a clubs size/reputation/how well run. like, we do get ripped off in the transfer market more than other clubs. does your analysis allow for that?

Seattle

How reliable is the public information about player contracts though? It doesn't come with anywhere near the same transparency as transfer fees. Contracts these days seem to be getting more complex - lots of performance related clauses and cuts (like we have if you don't qualify for the CL). You often get quoted various different figures in the media as to what a player is earning or sometimes the media is wrong. We can read the reports and make an educated guess but still could be quite a bit of variance, which makes it difficult to evaluate a player's value to a club. I think clubs like to keep individual player salary information opaque to remove it as a bargaining tool for players in contract discussions.

Sand

For what its worth, I think DataDudes point isnt as controversial as some are taking it to be. He is not (I think) saying MDL is a bad player. He is a good to very good player. But he on a very high wage, even by the standards of the PL.

Its a mismatch between performance (good) and cost (very high). That's all I see the point as being.

pjohnson

Just under 5 hours to go.

If we are going to permanently add a midfielder I'd imagine it'd have to break within the next 60/90 mins.

Might have more time if its a loan but say we'd have to hear something by about 5:30. Otherwise its just Lammens.

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775348#Comment_123775348

I don't think anyone's majorly disagreeing with his point. It's the delivery of the point I feel that could possibly be better…

paulbok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775351#Comment_123775351

I'm half expecting United to go back in for Martinez on loan shortly if he doesn't go anywhere else in the meantime.