Rights on a product bought on Amazon.

witnessmenow

I bought a pretty expensive kettle (£72) on Amazon.co.uk on july 12 2022 (so just under 2 years

I've been noticing it acting a little odd recently where it would jump between temperatures too quickly, but it was functioning ok.

But this evening I boiled the kettle and it didn't seem to turn off until I manually stopped it.

I'll keep an eye on it over the next day or two, but I'm just wondering what my recourse with Amazon will be if it is faulty?

The kettle has a 1 year manufacturer warranty, but I would expect a £70 Breville kettle to last longer than 2 years. If it was an Irish retailer I'd be happy to down the SCC route, just wondering what the process is with Amazon now? I'm hoping it doesn't come to that but I want to have it in my back pocket when I do get on to them

Thanks!

FobleAsNuck

there's no better customer service that amazon one plus since they sell to EU countries the 2 year warranty still applies

Toranaga

They'll get you to return it and will refund you.

It's painful enough getting on to them but pain free once you do.

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332679#Comment_122332679

I find Amazon customer service is way worse than in the past. Even the process of getting talking to someone on chat is so burried compared to before.

There is no 2 year warranty though, unless the Amazon rep just agrees the kettle should have lasted longer and refunds me, I will need to at least threaten the escalation, but I don't know what the escalation route is for Amazon since they are based in the UK

They will never admit liability for anything just in case you take them to court. It's down to their goodwill. They generally push liability back to the original supplier so are relatively happy to accept a claim as it costs them nothing. Outside of statutory warranty I have my doubts they will play ball though.

whomitconcerns

Maybe just call them and ask. Unless your preference is for 100 different opinions, all correct of course. 🤣

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333327#Comment_122333327

If I bought the kettle in an Irish store, my consumer rights Trumps the warranty, if they retailer didn't engage I might have to bring them to small claims court but it's almost certain I would win. A product needs to last a reasonable amount of time, and most people I think would agree that a £70 kettle not lasting two years, when you could buy one for €10, is not reasonable.

There was plenty of threads about people doing the same with PS3 I think and people getting refunds years after the warranty expired

My question is if I have a similar avenue available to me with Amazon.co.uk

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333331#Comment_122333331

It's not really opinion I'm looking for, I'm looking to know what my consumer rights are in this situation.

whomitconcerns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333353#Comment_122333353

Call them first and see what they say. I've always found Amazon ok. But out of warranty it's a goodwill thing really.. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/shopping/buying-online-from-uk-after-brexit/

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333429#Comment_122333429

Ok cool, thanks. Definitely will impact me buying more expensive things off Amazon in the future

JVince

fyi - when you buy from Amazon themselves and getting delivered in Ireland, you are buying off Amazon EU. Just go to your invoices and you will see the details

Amazon EU S.à r.l. - 38 avenue John F. Kennedy, L-1855 Luxembourg
R.C.S. Luxembourg: B 101818

On a kettle lasting 2 years - depends on usage and what the fault is.

Used 4/5 times a day and 2 years is probably on the low side of OK.

Used once a day - less so.

Price paid is probably more a cosmetic look as kettles are quite simply container + element + thermostat.

If you are in a hard water area or see a film of limescale inside the kettle - clean this away with limescale remover as it may be causing a block on the thermostat and that might clear the problem.

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334713#Comment_122334713

The invoice does say "Amazon EU Sarl", but followed by "UK Branch" with a London address.

I would have thought the price would come into it as you would be reasonable to expect a €80 kettle to be better quality than a €10 one. But either way it doesn't seem to be a runner anyways.

We are in a hard water area, but we have a water softening system. There is no sign of limescale in the kettle.

Also the kettle has worked without an issue so far today, which im both happy and sad about. My preference would be for it to keep working, but if it was to break I would prefer it was before the 12th of July :D

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333315#Comment_122333315

I was told that anything over a certain price, I think £40 had a two year warranty.

I was told this when I queried shoe failures, and wondered why not only the originals, but also the replacements failed.

Sure enough, I never had a problem returning shoes, but I simply got sick of buying the rubbish and posting the stuff back.

Frankly even a full year would be acceptable, but for a spend of up to £100, there was only one pair of boots that made it to one year.

My conclusion is that Amazon must pay virtually nothing for delivery or rely on people not claiming and suffering the loss.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334965#Comment_122334965

Oh, FFS, why do people post such utter crap.

The price you pay has no bearing on your rights and it's this type of ridiculous mis-information that causes issues

"But someone online said"

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337096#Comment_122337096

Someone from Amazon,

I was on their secure website, I believe you need to log in to communicate,

I did not consider it necessary to log the name as I'm not sure whether Amazon staff even use their own names.

I am not that interested in "my rights" as regards returns for low cost items, my time will not be compensated for packing and posting even if I print off a label. That incidentally has fallen out of favour and I have to pay up front for postage now and wait for the refund.

Dunnes state there is no warranty at all on shoes, I don't know if this is the case, but I bought a couple of pairs from them two years back and they were not fit for purpose. For 25 euro though, there are limits to the amount of arguing I want to do.

I suggest if you are concerned about the facts in my statement, you simply log in and contact Amazon yourself. If you come away with a different story I would be happy to know exactly what it is.

I have serious problems with some of the junk sold by Amazon incidentally, so I don't think that they are a good company to deal with if you are unfamiliar with the product, but I have yet to have an item I rejected not refunded.

staff

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122337989#Comment_122337989

Why on earth would you think an Amazon call-centre employee (or just as likely, a bot) is a legal authority? Businesses are mistaken (or often flat-out lie) about consumer rights all the time.

This:

I was told that anything over a certain price, I think £40 had a two year warranty.

and this:

Dunnes state there is no warranty at all on shoes

have no effect whatsoever on a consumer's legal rights.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338046#Comment_122338046

That is what you rely on for online purchases.

I have no reason to disbelieve Amazon, they have not lied directly to me at any point.

The amount of effort I go to in order to ensure my rights are being upheld is limited by a cost/ benefit approach.

I will be nobodies fool, but getting a court involved is not without stress and time loss.

I bought from Aliexpress and did not exercise my rights to a refund with them, on the whole compared to Amazon I was up as regards cost savings on the order, but the five euro for one of my super deluxe wifi repeaters was money well paid to find out how useless they are. I bought four in total, three are in service and the same item is twice the price from Amazon.

I am fully aware that the people who do not exercise their rights are doing the rest of the customers a disservice, but let's face it, most of the junk bought online will be in the bin within the year anyway.

Any significant purchase is bought locally and Trustpilot are a useful reference I always check.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122338353#Comment_122338353

Ali express are Chinese. Amazon is European.

You are in Europe.

Just thought I'd point that out.

European rights apply to goods sold by EU companies.

They don't apply to China.

It not whether you think €20 is worth it - that is of no consequence whatsoever.

You spouted blatant misinformation that was so stupid it was laughable.

You have the same rights for a €5 item as a €500 item.

If you buy a €10 pair of shoes in Dunnes and the heel drops off on the first wear, you have an absolute legal right for repair or replacement.

bog master

Having been a skeptic of Amazon previously my attitude has changed dramatically. Having purchased numerous items over the last 3 years, any faults with an item has been dealt with satisfactorily. In most cases a full refund issued and not having to return item. If having to return they either issue no cost return labels or will refund postage.

The most extreme case, they were not ehhmmm the primary seller, looking for a small replacement part which could not be sourced, they issued a 2/3 credit on the full purchase price.

Contact them and see what they say

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340292#Comment_122340292

But I have said nothing about my legal rights.

Whether Ali Express are Chinese or European is of no consequence, I found their returns procedure unsatisfactory and not worth the effort. Everything I related is my personal experience and I have never once had Amazon fail to conform to their statements, written or verbal.

Dunnes was a verbal statement, the actual words were less rigid, but for my purposes the shoes were intact and I risked buying them on the basis of what I was told.

I have never in my life taken a retailer to court, the sum would have to be fairly considerable before I would take the trouble, so generally I go into a purchase without that option being considered.

Where exactly did the misinformation come in? What bit did you not understand?

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340364#Comment_122340364

You do know you don't have to take a company to court to have an issue rectified.

You mis-informed people saying goods under €40 don't have a warranty. You also misinformed people by saying shoes in Dunnes don't have a warranty.

Both statements are ridiculously stupid and should be ignored

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340393#Comment_122340393

No I did not misinform people.

Point out where I said there was no warranty?

To repeat a message given to me by a source, implies no legal commitment of any form.

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would get onto Amazon customer service to confirm they had the same deal.

I understand you have problems, but if someone reading my original reply was dubious as to whether to order in case there was no significant warranty, they might be inclined to try a ring back from customer service to confirm, would they not?

My original figure might not be spot on, I think it was £40, in fact I'm sure it was, but as I say, log in and ask if you are concerned.

Now as for Dunnes, you might find it entertaining to stand at customer service arguing your rights, or indeed relish the idea of a legal tussle. Personally I think if a shop displays reluctance to stand by it's products, that tells me all I need to know.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340364#Comment_122340364

But I have said nothing about my legal rights.

Then what are you doing on this post replying to an OP who has specifically asked about their legal rights?

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340650#Comment_122340650

If you make or confirm an agreement that becomes a legal right, but even so, you will also find that I pointed out that Amazon never reneged on an agreement with me, either a written standard or one confirmed via their ringback process, ever!

So if you have the opportunity to verify a warranty before purchase, does it not make more sense than to fight things out legally or try to point out why your opinion of your rights might differ from Amazons?

Why do you think it should be a bad idea to contact them with an order reference to confirm the length of warranty?

Isn't using the law to get your way a last resort? If I recollect the standard advice is for people to sort the matter out between themselves before resorting to law.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340599#Comment_122340599

If I may wade in here. Your earlier post certainly suggested no recourse if an item is below a certain value. I read it that way. I was also surprised at you saying Dunnes don't recognise a warranty on shoes, when I have returned faulty shoes to them. What you were told and the legal situation/consumer protections are are two very different things. The OP asked about legal status and you just, probably unintentionally, mudded the waters.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340728#Comment_122340728

Why worry about legal issues if a better deal is readily obtained?

I DID NOT say Dunnes don't recognise a warranty on shoes.

I have never returned faulty shoes to Dunnes.

What post are you referring to, it certainly wasn't one of mine?

My post referred to a 2 year warranty over £40, how does that provide any information as to any warranty under £40?

I did not muddy the water at all. It's hard work going down a legal avenue, how can it be muddying the water pointing out a simple method that may render a legal dispute irrelevant?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122340784#Comment_122340784

I suspect most readers are wondering why you think the price of the item has a bearing on consumer rights. What legal importance are you attaching to the price point, £40?

The only reason I can see why the value matters, is that a low cost item is not worth the hassle of exercising your consumer rights, but as far as I am aware, neither Irish nor EU consumer law distinguishes between the legal rights related to high and low cost items.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122348941#Comment_122348941

Did you not read my original post either?

If you are taking up points relating to my communications with Amazon, why not read what I stated rather than imply things that I gave no indication of?

I would hope that most readers have the basic intelligence to understand that there is no £40 cut off in any consumer rights legislation stated or implied.

One does start to wonder though :-(

If you take the time to query my original statement, why not just read it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122348988#Comment_122348988

Why did you say anything over a certain price, £40 had a 2 yr warranty? That would indicate some consumer rights linked to a price point of £40.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349015#Comment_122349015

Would it?

Do you understand the term "warranty"?

FYI

noun

1. A
   representation, especially in writing, made by a seller or company to a
   purchaser of a product or service that a refund, repair, or replacement
   will be made if the product or service proves defective or
   unsatisfactory, especially within a given time period.
2. An assurance by the seller of property that the goods or property are as represented or will be as promised.
3. The
   insured's guarantee that the facts are as stated in reference to an
   insurance risk or that specified conditions will be fulfilled to keep
   the contract effective.

Apologies it my post was misleading, but I assumed that the term warranty was understood in an English speaking country.

I can of course explain the link between the use of the word and how it might have related to the legal implications of my particular "agreement", but it goes into explanations that I would have hoped would be pretty obvious and have been explained to another with confusion over what a warranty is .

You will find them if you plough through my posts though, if you now understand the first post, you are indeed ready to move on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349133#Comment_122349133

I, like most, know very well what a warranty is, my query is, why you think, and where you heard, that an item has to be above a certain price (£40 is what you posted) before it has a 2 yr warranty?

Instead of resorting to a dictionary meaning of warranty, it would be better if you could substantiate the link between warranty and £40.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349164#Comment_122349164

Read the original post, it would have saved you a lot of time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349237#Comment_122349237

I have, and you still haven’t clarified how items over £40 have a 2 year warranty, if you are able, please give some supporting information, if you can’t, it bears no relevance to the opening post.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349237#Comment_122349237

I was told that anything over a certain price, I think £40 had a two year warranty.

I was told this when I queried shoe failures, and wondered why not only the originals, but also the replacements failed.

Sure enough, I never had a problem returning shoes, but I simply got sick of buying the rubbish and posting the stuff back.

Frankly even a full year would be acceptable, but for a spend of up to £100, there was only one pair of boots that made it to one year.

My conclusion is that Amazon must pay virtually nothing for delivery or rely on people not claiming and suffering the loss.

You may not have intended it but you did lead people to interpret that there was a monetary value on warranties. You've since then harped on and on about others not understanding warranties or what you posted, but to be honest you didn't express whatever it was you were trying to say very well.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122349375#Comment_122349375

Yes for the product I bought the warranty depended on the money paid.

"A monetary value on warranties" is not a phrase I would use, but I would state that at the time I purchased said Item, the warranty provided by Amazon on the product line was two years if the purchase price of the item was over £40, this being agreed with Amazon who have never once told me porkies except for the rubbish about taking dangerous goods complaints seriously.

What the Hell is so complex about Amazon stating "if the item is over £40 there's a two year warranty"?

"A monetary value on warranties" suggests a warranty is tradable and that is something totally different, the mind boggles as to how you derived that little gem.

WildCardDoW

Yes for the product I bought the warranty depended on the money paid.

Well by now you know better surely? Nearly everyone has corrected you and you are still claiming that Amazon are correct.

The price of the item (within two years) has no impact on the ability to request a return, refund or exchange for a manufacturing fault of defect.

After two years it might impact the level of recompense you can expect as there is an argument about the expectations between two items after this point in EU law which would be the most applicable in a case with Amazon.

What the Hell is so complex about Amazon stating "if the item is over £40 there's a two year warranty"?

Nothing complex other than the fact that you can't accept Amazon were wrong when they told you there is some price point that kicks in, end of story.

The correct statement, regardless of what some random support agent told you is:

if the item is above, equal to or less than £40 there's a two year warranty

@witnessmenow - did you need to return it and how did it go? Amazon are harder to get into touch with but once you find the link to kick off the process it is fine, you usually you pay P&P to send it (after which they refund you). We're now past your max return date ha!

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122383879#Comment_122383879

Kettle has been working fine since this post so I haven't had to test the waters with Amazon! Fingers crossed it stays working alright!

witnessmenow

And of course it happened again last night. I'll see if I can get onto Amazon this evening and ask about it, but in my mind my bargaining power is a bit weaker now that its over 2 years old!

Whatever happens with it, the kettle has to go anyways. I threw on the kettle and went upstairs to put away some clothes, and it was the kids who let me know there was "smoke" in the kitchen (it was just steam, but its unusual to see so much steam as usually a kettle stops shortly after starts steaming)

In theory if it doesn't stop boiling it could boil itself dry and that would not be good (never mind the cost of a kettle not stopping)

witnessmenow

Got onto Amazon CS

I explained the situation and the CS rep essentially very politely told me nothing he can do.

"Since I've had satisfactory use of this product for a period of time exceeding both the manufacturers warranty and the typical average life of this product, we are unable to offer a repair, replacement or refund"

When I pushed back on less than two years being the expected average of a £72 kettle, he went away for a few minutes and basically said he has no options available to him to address this for me.

He has also essentially said that because it has passed 2 years since I purchased the item, they no longer have any options to process any concession, so I should have just complained when it happened the first time!

Judging by some of the comments here, maybe I'm being unreasonable that I would expect an expensive kettle to last longer than a cheap one. If these comments are accurate, there is no reason from a consumer rights point of view to buy anything but the cheapest of the cheap stuff.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394994#Comment_122394994

Did you highlight the issue to them at all before the 2 years were up? If not, you're probably goosed

rock22

@witnessmenow "Judging by some of the comments here, maybe I'm being unreasonable that I would expect an expensive kettle to last longer than a cheap one. If these comments are accurate, there is no reason from a consumer rights point of view to buy anything but the cheapest of the cheap stuff."

I think you have to ask why it is more expensive. If the expensive kettle has a better more robust construction, including a better thermostat, then it might be a better purchase. If it is more expensive because it is badged as a premium brand then it probably is waste of money. The problem is, without being a 'kettle engineer', how do you sort one from the other.

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400329#Comment_122400329

In my opinion, if something costs more you'd expect it to be of higher quality. It's unreasonable to assume the average consumer is going to tear down kettles they don't even own in an attempt to decipher which has the highest quality thermostat, even if they were a kettle engineer, so the only thing that is reasonable for distinguishing a better quality one from a worse one is price and maybe reputation of the manufacturer.

It's purely academic at this stage anyways. Amazon have washed their hands of it, it doesn't seem like I have any moves left (and questionable if it would be worth the effort if I did) so all I can do is chalk it down to experience.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394994#Comment_122394994

These two statements don't add up:

less than two years being the expected average of a £72 kettle

because it has passed 2 years since I purchased the item

Did you purchase the kettle more than two years ago, but then left it in its box for a while and therefore you've had less than two years of "active use" of it?

Your warranty kicks in on the date that you purchased the item. Not even when it's delivered to you. When you actually started using it is moot.

As for how long a kettle should last, that entirely depends on its usage. One person could be boiling it once a day, another 50 times. Then you have the effects of hard water (and the maintenance or lack thereof regarding descaling it). I live in a hard water area, and regardless of whether I buy a €15 white yoke from Lidl or a €70 Russel Hobbs, they all seem to only last about 2.5 years here. I descale the jug itself, but limescale still builds up in other areas that you can't easily deal with.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400566#Comment_122400566

More than what?

The Continental Op

I'm surprised at people suggesting that Amazon would sort it? In my experience is they won't do anything once an item is over 12 months old - unless they have some extra warranty mentioned in the original listing. I had an air filter that Amazon stated had a 3 year warranty and they honored that after 35 months :-)

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122400566#Comment_122400566

" if something costs more you'd expect it to be of higher quality." Unfortunately , so often that is not the case.

Your rights under UK law is I think similar to here and there is a six year limit on on pursuing action. But, now outside the EU, it is hard to see how you could advance it further. I am not sure if you could take a case in UK county court but, firstly, you might need a UK address and secondly the fee is £35. So hardly worth it. In fact any legal remedy is going to cost you money.

You might still write to Amazon in both UK and Luxembourg . It will only cost you a stamp. And even consider writing to Breville , although their website

https://help.breville.co.uk/s/warranty

makes it clear that they only provide a 1 year warrantee