Standard of English writing in gaelscoil

taytay123

My child is in a gaelscoil - second class.

Her level of English and irish writing is shocking. She can hardly spell anything in either language. English reading is average despite me putting in time every day since senior infants into it. Maths is below average according to drumcondra tests.

I reckon the school don't care about the low standard of English reading as in their opinion Irish is the first language and you can learn to speak and read English in the world around you, doesn't matter if written English isnt great. I have been waiting and waiting for things to improve /catch up and they aren't....and I don't think they will. It has taken this long to dawn on me. I am so tired and frustrated at having to make her do extra English and maths on top of homework and getting nowhere.

What should I do. I've lost faith in the system.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357251/standard-of-english-writing-in-gaelscoil

Not clear if this is primary or secondary level gaelscoil? What age is she? If it's primary and she's 7 or 8, then plenty of time, relax. But reads more like second level if you're that worried about standard of writing, spelling and maths?

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357251/standard-of-english-writing-in-gaelscoil

Is your child dyslexic?

I'd have been in the same boat as you, when child was in second class (in gaeilscoil) was brutal writer/ speller. Now, same child in secondary school - still has brutal writing, still cant spell - but does more than fine in exams. Results have been really good.

Also, you cant judge the school off your child alone - there could be 20 others kids in the class who write perfectly well for the level they are at.

Genuinely, dont overthink this one - its much more important that they enjoy school. I am going to put to you that in ten years time, you will regret getting so stressed over this.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301675#Comment_122301675

Its clearly primary school, but I think I see the point you are making.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301709#Comment_122301709

If the child is 7/8 and has good grasp of both English and Irish as spoken, I wouldn't be worried about level of spelling or reading (which are both related). That'll follow in time unless some other issues as you suggest. As for maths at that level, it's pretty basic concepts & arithmetic. Every child is different and picks up things/ takes an interest in them at different times. Comparisons with others in the class are of little use, once they are enjoying their time there.

Tombo2001

The bigger risk at this point is to the childs confidence in being labelled an 'underperforming' child and the pressure that comes with it - sitting down and making them read every single day? Making the child do extra homework over what they have? Age 8? Thats the first thing I'd be addressing.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301703#Comment_122301703

…first thing that came to my mind, its possibly the first signs of the disability, i have it myself, but its very hard to say at that age for sure without assessments, which is bloody expensive, languages such as french and irish are a major problem for those of us with the disability, problems with maths potentially could be signs of dyscalculia, which is just another learning difficulty, i dont have this one, but its common enough

…but we could be grasping at straws here, the child may not have any of these issues at all, but it should be something to consider, particularly if it persists…..

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301962#Comment_122301962

thats true - and whether its something you label or not - the child is not good at spelling/ writing…..doesnt make them thick, and doesnt make it a bad school.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301987#Comment_122301987

ah shur my own spelling and writing is absolutely terrible, and probably getting worse with age, modern tech certainly isnt helping that, thankfully the child is young, and we have far greater understanding of these issues nowadays, i dont think id be overly concerned here, but can understand the parents concern, just something to be mindful of. the school system will always have short comings, but there is far better understanding within them of these issues

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357251/standard-of-english-writing-in-gaelscoil

Have you discussed your worries with your child's teacher?

Danzy

The child's teacher is the first port of call.

All the supposition about the schol and how they view the standard of English is just in your mind.

I reckon... That's all a dangerous phrase.

The range across a class and across individuals in different years is quite immense.

Kaybaykwah

Nothing that text messaging her little friends won’t be able to cure, IMO.

Reati

IMO - It been a Gaelscoil has little to do with it.

Is your child otherwise happy, do they have friends, go to parties and have playdates?

Exams and scores are not critical at 8 years old unless you believe there is a underlying disability that needs addressing.

It feels you have some set bar you expect your child to be at, at this point? What is the measure you are using? Has a teacher flagged the child is not on the level expected at this time for either langauge?

taytay123

Yes the standard I have is my own ability to read and write at the same age. No one had to help me read because I could read any book that I wanted to. And no one had to help me with homework because I could write and spell and certainly after spending 6 hours at school each day I didn't need to do anything else to keep up with the curriculum.

I didn't go to a Gaelscoil. Many parents who went to a Gaelscoil themselves have told me the trade off of being to one is that English suffers.

taytay123

Of course I've spoken to the teacher. They have said they cannot provide resourcing. They spoke to me and gave me a long list of maths items to work on over the summer.

And the school and other parents have always said that parents must read with their children in their own time.

taytay123

The school themselves have said parents need to read regularly with their children.

Many parents do extra work with their children in order for them not to fall behind. This is common in gaelscoileanna.

And it is also common for learning difficulties to be missed. This school does have a resource department and they are slow to recommend that children leave but there are quite a few sad stories of children struggling for years without the school admitting to a problem and then the child leave and copes far better in an English speaking environment.

Another local Gaelscoil is much quicker to recommend that struggling children leave. Parents of children at that school have said that the resource department is virtually redundant as there are almost no children there with learning difficulties. To be honest although this seems harsh I think it fair in comparison to encouraging struggling children to stay and then falling miles behind.

To the person concerned about me labelling my child... I've never said anything to her about her abilities. She's aware because she can see other children in the class find their work easier. She has already observed and labeled herself..

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302952#Comment_122302952

But you are a population sample of one - just because it was like that for you, its doesnt mean it will be like that for your child.

How would you feel if you saw a dad who had been a good footballer, getting all wound up because their kid is no good at football, getting them to go out and practice in the back garden every evening? Or giving out that the coaches at the club arent good enough. Same kid will be really good at other things though.

There is a fairly consistent, clear message in the responses here.

And by the way, no parents are getting kids to do homework over the summer. Folks correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that would be very very unusual.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303015#Comment_122303015

I've no idea of the experience of the people giving these responses. There are loads of people who are really opinionated but won't admit to the failings of gaelscoileanna. ie that learning difficulties aren't spotted quickly enough, that they are filled with very academic children, that many parents do extra work with their children and most children with learning difficulties move elsewhere after a few years. That's my lived experience of sending my child to one. Early intervention makes a massive difference to a struggling reader.

Every child should be able to read and write.

Saying I am a sample size of one is ridiculous. I was on a par with my peers in my class. They could also for the most part read and write at the age of 9 and if they couldn't there was definitely an issue. The second class curriculum is not hard and if a child is very behind there is a problem.

taytay123

And I can assure you my child's school report recommended extra work over the summer.

Ezeoul

It sounds like you're looking for a reason to move your child to an English speaking school, and that's okay.

Maybe you'd be happier, or think your child would do better, but it does sound like you are expecting a lot and applying a lot of pressure (on you both).

I remember being told to read with my child every day, and she went to an English speaking school.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303103#Comment_122303103

It is so hard to move school. There is very little availability elsewhere and I have multiple children in the school. This is my most convenient school. It is the last thing I want to do. Another parent had to get a local politician involved in order to get an alternative school space for their child when learning difficulties became apparent.

I cannot tell because I don't have the experience to know whether or not she will be fine. But I don't want to disadvantage her education and make secondary school a misery for her.

I don't think it is pressure to expect that a child be taught well enough to read and write at an appropriate age. I think it should be the schools duty to inform the parents honestly about what is going on. They don't have enough resourcing and so they are passing the work onto the parents.

Tombo2001

Ah come on- you arrive on boards, ask a question and then when you dont like the answer you say you dont know if those people are informed….

Would you be saying that if they had supported your views?

This is the parenting forum. We all have kids. I have a dyslexic child.

Lots of parents move their kids away from gaeilscoileanna for the reasons you describe. In my kids classes, it would have been maybe 3 or 4 kids in each of the classes over the eight years.

I will say this - my daughter has thrived academically since moving to an English speaking secondary school.

However, the gaeilscoil was brilliant for her socially so we were happy to keep her there.

Also, we did find a tutor who specialised in 1/1 dyslexia and was absolutely brilliant, a nun as it happens. She did that once a week in 5th and 6th.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303161#Comment_122303161

Very glad to hear that your daughter has done well in secondary school. It's good to hear that.

It is not that I don't like the answer. It is that so many people speak glowingly about gaelscoileanna and don't own up to the inadequacies so I don't trust the system. We asked many people about gaelscoileanna including the principal before sending her there. People only told us positive things and how amazing it all is. No one ever told us that it is common for children with needs to leave. We were even told there would be no punishment system for speaking in English....this of course was untrue...all gaelscoileanna do and it was very intimidating for my child who did not aquire spoken language easily and still struggles with English grammar sometimes at the age of 9.

We were even told that children who go to gaelscoileanna have a better standard of English that their peers in English speaking schools...really untrue according parents I've spoken to who went to gaelscoileanna themselves.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303235#Comment_122303235

I hear what you are saying.

There is definitely a middle class thing with primary schools, and schools in general. Parents speak the same way Gaeilscoils as about Educate Togethers, and I'm not sure they are any great shakes either. But ultimately its where all the other middle class kids are going. And people talk about what a great school it is, rather than = well thats where all the other middle class kids are going, and thats why I want my kids to go there. When you are trying to get them in, its hard to see through the noise. Especially if there is a waiting list.

There probably a lot of truisms about Gaeilscoileanna - one of them is that they will pick up other languages easily. Thats not apparent to me, so far anyway.

I'll be honest, the biggest plus for me was that its mixed. Most of the local primaries werent. After that, our gaeilscoil is just a really nice school. The Irish, personally, I could take or leave. (Of course you cant say that down there 😅).

The other thing - if you in Dublin then you know teacher retention is a much bigger issue for the gaeilscoils.

taytay123

Yes there wasn't a waiting list at the time as it had just moved location (there is now) so it was easy to get into and I suppose that's part of the reason we were naive. And yes we have the issue of recruitment and all the teachers being so recently qualified and a large turnover of staff.

It is a nice school but the academics are making life hard at the moment, not sure why and I feel a bit isolated and unsure of what to do. My main fear is that I'm disadvantaging her by leaving her there.

Great to hear that your daughter had a good experience and thanks for sharing it.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303084#Comment_122303084

I think you have unrealistic expectations. Yes it's good if every child/ person learns to read & write & spell but there is no predetermined age for this. It may have been one age for you but that's no guarantee for anyone else including your own children. Just encourage an interest in reading and the rest will follow in it's own good time.

We had a child with a certain learning issue (in a normal community school). Went in to see the year head, she listened and said they'd see what they could do………. but that it was an educational system, designed to cater for the average child and it was hard to tailor to the individual. The parent is still the primary educator of the child so up to parents to keep an eye on things, support and fill in the gaps.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303832#Comment_122303832

It's interesting to hear your experience...thanks so much for sharing it. I guess if we were in an English speaking school I would agree with your principal. The Irish muddies the waters though. And the fact that children in gaelscoileanna tend to be very strong academically, and children with apparent needs in preschool like speech delays tend to be advised not to go to them, and then others leave as dyslexia etc becomes obvious. English is only taught for 30 minutes a day. And of course for some learning difficulties you get an Irish exemption. But the school is slow to advise people to leave as it prides itself on being more progressive. Other gaelscoileanna are quite quick to advise that children might do better in an English speaking school. I cannot tell if there is a learning difficulty or not and the school are not going to advise. I don't even think they know my child well enough to tell.

AnnieinDundrum

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122303087#Comment_122303087

I’d see that as a major warning about the school. Or perhaps a subtle warning from the school?

i have never had recommendations for extra work in holidays,
the only suggestions we were ever given was about reading and we asked about that. Son didn’t want to read books so we asked about it, teacher suggested graphic novels as a new medium for him. He took to it so much he started writing and drawing his own.

At that age we were still reading bed time stories. I was pretty sure that I was reading independently at that age but I had 4 younger siblings so bed time resources were stretched so I found my own entertainment. My kids were able to read school texts but I don’t think they were reading independently and fluently until later.

AnnieinDundrum

on the maths front I would look for some games type maths lessons. I’m not up to speed with these but we had a couple on a pc years ago which the kids loved. No fun in doing the same as school. We did the same later, my higher level Lc maths was rusty so I found other ways of learning the same stuff, actual books this time but different to the school texts.

Highlighter75

Irish is a zombie language. Why put your kids through the torture?

AnnieinDundrum

can you get the child assessed for dyslexia? That might be useful.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304020#Comment_122304020

Thanks so much it's really good to hear your perspective about where your children were at at the same age....could I ask were your children in a gaelscoil or English medium school?

AnnieinDundrum

English

we aren’t a family of fluent Irish speakers so w weren’t their type back then.

witchgirl26

OP I don't think it's fair to tarnish all Gaelscoileanna because of your experience here. My son is just finishing Junior Infants in one and I can't fault them at all. He was a little younger than most of his class and the teacher has been amazing at bringing him along and giving us some things to help him as well ourselves.

If you're not happy with the school then I do think you need to look elsewhere - it's often easier to transfer rather than getting a place in junior infants. But ultimately if this is how you feel about the school now, is that going to change. And are you going to end up more frustrated in the future.

We did get a note on my son's report card about helping him with certain things during the summer but it wasn't a list of work - was more around writing (the acutual physical act) and that which he does struggle a little with.

I went to a secondary gaelscoil & most of the people there had been in a primary one (I had not) - the majority had a very high standard of reading and writing in both languages.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304064#Comment_122304064

Surprisingly hard to do….

AnnieinDundrum

yeah, even for private there’s a waiting list. So I’d see about getting them on the waiting list so it’s there as a back up.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122304678#Comment_122304678

I'd be concerned if a child was vaping.

I'd be concerned if a child was being bullied. Or if they were bullying. Or if they had no friends.

Being a poor reader is a different thing. Its the way they are. Its not because of poor decisions. Its not a sign of misactivity or boldness. Its not because their education has been neglected. And it certainly doesnt mean they are below average intelligence (or, at the weak end of the spectrum). Its just something that they are. So, 'concerned' - I dunno, suggests that you wont accept what they are, that there is something wrong with them that needs to be fixed.

Having lived through this - the advice you've offered - make reading fun, encourage them, reading should not be a chore….these are easy things to say.

However, if a child doesnt like reading then they dont think reading is fun, they do think reading is a chore, and certainly in our case it was pretty hard to make it any different. With my own child, we dragged her into libraries when she was younger to the extent that she practically has phobias of them now; I regret doing that. Of course at the time, we did it with good intentions, and to 'encourage her to read'. The other kids loved the library, loved reading.

So looking back, I would say the problem was us - our values were wrong, our understanding of poor reading was wrong. There is a pretty thin line between 'encouraging' and pushing/ bribing/ forcing - its pretty easy to tell yourself you are doing one, when actually you are doing the other.

However - on a more positive note:

The one thing that did get her reading was cookbooks, loves baking & will read the recipes. Not much but its something.

Audiobooks are a lot better than nothing. I would much sooner use these than 'encouraging' a child to read when they are not enjoying it.

I referenced the nun who helped our child with reading & dyslexia. The number one thing the nun did, more than anything else, was make the child feel good about herself.

EDIT - and just some comments in relation to @Kathnora's comments below. Parents can only compare the schools that are out there. That can be limiting to begin with, and in this case I believe it is. The second complication is that there are a number of children in the family. A Gaeilscoil might be right for the first and the second, but not for the third. But you only really find that out down the line. I think very few people will have a view at age of 4 or 5 that a child will be a good reader, or not be. The third is that gaeilscoils are usually mixed, whereas english language schools generally arent - all things being equal, this will be a big differentiating factor. Your advice of 'read, read, read' of course its good advice. But it shouldnt be a millstone.

Really, the question is - what is your advice for a child who doesnt enjoy reading….

Kathnora

A very interesting and informative discussion …many good points made. (Primary school teacher here, English medium)

In my opinion Gaelscoileanna are probably the best way to immerse a child in the language. Not many children become proficient in Irish in English medium schools. So in sending a child to a Gaelscoil parents need to be very interested in the language and not choose the school because the "nice kids" go to it or the child's friends are attending. It also helps of course if the parents can speak the language too. Of course Irish is prioritised and less time is given to English, that's how it works. The average child will cope, the bright child will flourish. The child with difficulties be it dyslexia, dyscalcula or low academic ability will struggle. Resource teaching is provided for those who need it but like every school it is never enough. Classes are big, individual needs are many and varied and no teacher can cater for every individual child's needs. I have never completed a school year feeling satisfied that I did everything possible to help meet ALL the children's needs. Why? ….classes are too big, time is scarce, curriculum is overloaded, discipline issues eat into teaching time etc etc. As teachers we can only do our best and we definitely need the support of parents, an invaluable resource.

I hope this forum opens parents' minds to the fact that (imo) children need to be "able" for the regime of a Gaelscoil. After two years of preschool many parents will know if a child has learning difficulties and should think carefully about whether a Gaelscoil is the best place for your child. I understand that in the op's case the child's difficulty probably didn't become apparent until the child started reading and writing. Sigma T and Micra T scores are a good indicator of the child's progress and ability at the end of every year and they can change from year to year. Some parents need to park their love of Irish or the fact that the school is down the road when it comes to making the decision of choosing that school. It's more important to consider whether a Gaelscoil is the best place for the child. I do appreciate that that may not be easy in some cases.

The op has been advised to help the child during the summer. That happens in all schools, not just Gaelscoileanna. Read, read, read and then read some more would always be my advice. Reading is not for school, reading is for life. Sadly some children associate reading with school work so are reluctant to read at home. Only the parents can make it fun, buy the books, join the library and above all read with the children …paired reading etc I would advise the op to work on this during the summer, monitor her progress carefully in the next school year, meet with the teacher regularly and then make a decision in June '25 about whether the Gaelscoil meets your child's needs. If assessments are offered or are available avail of them too. Best of luck!

AnnieinDundrum

a teacher suggested trying a variety of reading materials. Even the back of the cornflake packet is reading.

Instructions for assembling models…. Pre YouTube providing everything. Got a keen model maker into it.

Sis got a book on caring for a kitten and a new kitten,,, her 9 year old learned to read that summer.

we also got graphic novels… and later we bought graphic novels in French, the art teacher was delighted with that too and it kicked off an interesting journey into manga for the whole class. We also watched Japanese manga movies with English subtitles…

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305312#Comment_122305312

…and bloody expensive to, i got lucky with a couple of hundred quid a few years ago, but its a much different story nowadays, parents could easily be short a grand or two now, and others have said, be prepared to wait! it may not be the issue here either, as the child may not come back with a diagnoses, testing can be risky in that sense….

shesty

Warning bells go off for me if the school report actually said "extra homework over the summer".Practice reading, that is fair enough.

For comparison, I've an 8 year old just out of 1st class, and a barely 10 year old just finished 3rd class.They are good readers and their spelling is 98% accurate (I watch it!!!).Typically the 8 year old reads Roald Dahl, Horrid Henry and similar.The older reads anything that comes her way - Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, type stuff. They write a lot at home - making up comics, picture books, poems, random notices, things for games.Both are above average on drumcondra tests.My 3rd class child has been learning Irish verbs and grammar this year and learning to spell the words correctly is a key part and expected of her by her teacher.

I put work in when they were smaller but by now they both get reading time every night.They pick in the library every few weeks (have to let them choose to encourage it) .I'd definitely recommend reading a few pages to her every night and then letting her have 15/20 mins to read for herself.Make it part of her routine.

I would definitely keep an eye on this.Gaelscoil or not, I would not be happy with her reading or writing skills being at that level in 2nd class.Because the fact is it will carry through to secondary school, regardless of language, and it will be a lot more work to sort it then.I do think you need to follow up on this.You could ask the school can they give you a breakdown of her English Drumcondra.Someone may correct me on this but I think it is divided into sections - spelling,literacy, reading or similar.See can they give you any information at all about any breakdown on it.She is below the average so it would suggest to me that extra input is needed.Whether it leads to a diagnosis is another thing but if she is struggling she should be getting assistance during the school day.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308014#Comment_122308014

Thanks so much. I've done English reading every day with her since senior infants. Lots of the little phonics readers in a systemic way etc. We buy lots of books, trips to the library etc. The school just send an English reader home once a week starting in first class but they don't really do phonics based English reading or writing in class. I know for sure that most parents who went to a Gaelscoil themselves started English reading with their children in the infant years despite the total immersion in infants policy. Reading is slow but not terrible.

It is the writing that I am most concerned about. I don't know how to teach it.

She definitely won't be eligible for resource help. But I don't know where she should be given the teaching methods. Several in the class can write but they are very clever or parents are primary teachers and taught them at home etc so I really cannot tell what is normal.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305575#Comment_122305575

Thank you so much for this its really good to get your perspective. I agree, the child does need to be able for it as it is much more difficult than an English medium school especially if the parents aren't fluent. We asked a lot of people and discussed our concerns with the school before enrolling but no one mentioned this...we just got the 'its amazing, children are like sponges' spiel. I agree with your strategy…

The biggest problem I have is the difficulty in securing school places elsewhere....most likely one child would have to be moved at a time due to availability, so there is then only 1 other school that would tie in with drop off and collection times and we don't live near public transport or good cycle routes so all other schools mean driving, traffic delays etc. So I feel decision time is not on my side. And I really cannot tell what the norm is for writing in second class in a gaelscoil.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305575#Comment_122305575

I wouldn't fully agree with this. My son started in a Gaelscoil last September. I would say out of his junior infants of 40 students, there's maybe 5-10 who's parents speak Irish at home. Probably a few more, like myself, who have it but are only now getting back to using it but the majority do not. I would also disagree on class sizes - in all the English medium schools near us (there were 5 primary schools to choose from including the Gaelscoil), the class sizes were at least 25 whereas it was 20 in the Gaelscoil for Junior Infants. Further up the school have smaller sizes too. And in terms of resources for those children with difficulties, there's actually a lot of resources available for them in the Gaelscoil. It has a full ASD unit as well as SNA's available too. There's a couple of the children in older classes where they are getting help for dyslexia without any issue. In fact one in my son's class has been identified already & processes put in place to support him for Senior Infants. He's doing ok but I can't see how it would be majorly different if he was going to an English medium school.

Gaelscoil is done immersive as this is the best way for a child to learn a language. Like how they learn English at home. Having seen the difference in how Irish is done with my son versus nieces & nephews, I would think there's a large amount that English medium schools could learn about how to teach Irish as a language from a Gaelscoil. It's not sitting it & learning it by rote & learning all the grammer etc. It's done a lot more naturally which has already fostered a love of the language in him. And the younger a child is taught a second language, the easier it then becomes to pick up others.

Not sure about the OP's specific school but I know ours did tell us from the start that the children do not start reading or writing in English in school until 1st class. They do it in Irish in junior & senior infants but that is the focus. Now we've already seen my son being able to pick up some words in books in English we read at home with him & they did say that it's fine if you want to start the English reading at home earlier. That said, I wouldn't see the writing or reading element having a major impact later on in school but it might have a bit for those first couple of years after it's introduced if the reading is not kept up at home. I know my partner came from a home where reading wasn't really encouraged & not many books around. I was the opposite & we're raising my son with books everywhere.

Kathnora

taytay123 ….. Of course the gaelscoileanna are going to sell their product to parents. They don't want to lose teachers if their enrolment drops. Many schools not just gaelscoileanna do their best to promote their school over others especially in large urban areas.

You mentioned your concern with regard to writing in Post 43. It can take a lot of time and effort to master this skill. English medium schools would typically devote an hour or more daily to English (oral, reading and writing). Plus …all other subjects are taught through English so the child gets an opportunity to practise their literacy skills while learning History or Environmental Studies etc. If you think about a child learning to cycle or swim or play the piano they don't acquire the skill without lots of practise. Reading and writing are skills too. As your child will be in 3rd class next term there should be more time spent on English writing skills. At the end of 3rd class I would expect an average to good child to be able to write a short recount story such as …..

"My birthday was on Saturday. I had a big party. My friends Amy, Jenny, Ruth and Kate came to my party. My mammy made a chocolate cake.

First we played games in the garden. My favourite game was Hide and Seek. We played skipping too.

Next we had lots of nice things to eat. All my friends sang Happy birthday and I blew out all my candles.

Then we watched a movie on Netflix.

At 6 o'clock my friends went home. I was very tired but I had a great party."

Now remember the above is based on English medium. I really don't know how that standard compares to a Gaelscoil.

Like reading writing needs to be practised too. Focus on the fun things ….making cards, craft work that includes writing. Buy her fancy gel pens. In order to encourage children to write full sentences I would get them to say the sentence aloud first (get the sentence in order) before writing. Don't be too harsh about the spelling or capital letters for a good while …it's more important that the child can say "I went to a party" and then write it in that order. You could also get the child to copy your sentences so that she sees how the words in a sentence are ordered. Plenty of reading practice will reinforce that too. Read the same book a few times (if the child likes the book) to familiarise her with its structure.

The above advice is probably too heavy for summer work but might be helpful for assisting with homework in 3rd class.

cgorzy

I think the OP is putting too much emphasis on their child being in a Gaelscoil as at the start the OP says the child has a poor standard of written Irish as well as English. Assuming this is the child’s standard relative to their age and class group then this plus a below average score in Maths would indicate to me that the child needs help/encouragement across all topics.

I have children in, and finished in, a gaelscoil and have never felt there was anything but a positive attitude to the teaching of English there once started. Also I do not think my childrens standard of English is suffering in any way from learning through Irish and have not met any parent or person who attended a Gaelscoil who expressed this view. I have seen some children leave the school due to finding learning through Irish generally difficult but very few. I know of some who were diagnosed with dyslexia and left others who were diagnosed with dyslexia and stayed. Supports have been available as they should be. Personally I think it would reflect badly on a gaelscoil, or any school, if it advised all children with additional needs to go elsewhere. Of course schools are different and none of what I have experienced may be true for parents of children in a different gaelscoil.

I hope the OP and children have a good and happy summer with their children and sees progress on the mentioned child’s reading and writing.

byhookorbycrook

Learning support teacher in a Gaelscoil here. I don't you can generalise about schools, being a COI/Gaelscoil/Educate Together etc. doesn't mean every school under that patronage is the same. Children do mainly oral work for the early years of primary schools as a whole and this can impact on free writing in those years. If a school is doing total immersion (i.e. no English for a specified time) studies have shown that the children will read and write in English to a lower level initially. The studies also show that the children not only catch up but often outperform their peers in English medium schools later on in primary.

By resource, you probably mean learning support. The cut off for support is STEN 3 and below, so your child is obviously above those, which is good news. Was there a big drop in scores since last year The Drumcondra reading test at that age tests word analysis, vocabulary and comprehension, there's no spelling component in it. I would definitely contact the school to ask for the breakdown in those areas.Maths results can be broken down into various areas too , if the school uses the Aladdin system. It's very, very common- and indeed recommended , to suggest areas in which a child can be given additional support at home. How were her Irish results?

You don't have to sit down with a maths book- as already suggested baking, shopping, thing like "I spy" games for shape, using the clock to decide how long more lunch/ a TV programme etc. will be and so on. Read to her, read with her, let her listen to audio books, encourage her to joining the library summer reading programme, but ensure she's reading books at her own level. I've seen second class children walking around with books that are popular, but way beyond their level because they want to be seen to have them. That's where your audio books come into play.

I'd also strongly caution not being too "results driven" by these tests- they only show how a child did on that day and in that room at that time. A child may be nervous of tests, feeling extra tired, have a pain in their tummy etc.

Getting a child assessed for dyslexia won't entitle them to additional support like it once did. When I stared working in special education, a child with dyslexia was automatically given 30 mins one to one a day, it's Sten 3 and below.

I would talk to the school in early September and ask them to explain the results to you in the detail I've outlined above. My experience of a number of decades is that moving a child to an English medium school can be devastating for many of them. There are obviously exceptions such as where a child has a particular challenge like DLD.

Feel free to PM me re scores etc.

shesty

What you could do - and I suggest this from a friend whose child has dyslexia - is try an app which allows her to practice spelling.My friend's child is dyslexic and so spelling is not his thing and he has to practice it over and over. This app won't move up a level until he has spelled each word that pops up at him correctly.I am not at all suggesting your child is dyslexic by the way, but it could be a fun way for her to practice over the summer, just something different.

I absolutely cannot remember the names of any of these apps, they were free during covid, but somebody else here might jump in with suggestions for them!

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122309552#Comment_122309552

Thanks so much. Wow classes of 20 are amazing. My child is in a huge class of over 30. Also there has been a high turnover of teachers. It's hard to know if this is part of the problem. Sounds like your school is really well organised, with an asd unit too. It's really interesting to hear the perspectives and experiences of others. I can imagine the small class size makes a massive difference especially if a child isn't quite meeting the cut off for learning support.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122311800#Comment_122311800

That is a huge number in a class. Honestly that is one of the reasons we looked at it for us (the Irish part was honestly not the main driving factor - it was all other elements of the school).

A high turnover of teachers isn't good. It doesn't always indicate an underriding problem with the school (sometimes it's just coincidence) but it does cause disruption and uncertainty which isn't good.

Yeah the smaller classes are great - my son was not good with fine motor skills when starting. He was younger than the others and previously had no interest in colouring and drawing. So it was picked up really quickly and the difference now with a bit of work is amazing.

I think some schools are just run better than others and it is in no way dependent on the ethos of them which are better run than others.

taytay123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313447#Comment_122313447

Most schools around here have 30 in the class. Our school has a huge waiting list so I suppose that's why they take so many. Plus they have to get a new teacher every year as the school grows. The classes were smaller when the school was new....20 is a great class size but haven't heard of anywhere around here having class sizes that small apart from the very first classes in a new educate together . Accommodation costs are too high hence the high teacher turnover everywhere even in the very established schools. The school admin is very efficient, it raises lots of money and it has a great parent volunteer community but not sure there is much they can do about staffing shortages and the need for school places. It makes it very hard to change schools too as everywhere is full.